Confirmed with Link: Viktor Stalberg to OTT for 2017 3rd round pick

[Sting]

I still laugh when I remember Hale blaming Stafford's playoff goal on "asset management" for trading for Stalberg and not Stafford.

Some of the lengths people will go to hammer their agenda is just truly remarkable in this place

Count me in the group that would have the better player (Stafford) for the significantly lower cost.

We gave up Dahlen and a 3rd for two fourth liners when we could have easily gotten two for a 5th and a 6th.

I like both Stalberg and Burrows in that role, but in his early days as a GM, Dorion clearly overpays.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

NHLers signed for under 1M this offseason
Marchessault: 30G, 51P for 0.95M
Eaves: 32G, 51P for 1M
Gagner: 18G, 50P for 0.65M
Versteeg: 15G, 37P for 0.95M
Sceviour: 9G, 24P for 0.85M
Connolly: 15G, 23P for 0.85M
Korpikoski: 8G, 20P for 1M
White: 9G, 16P for 1M

Couldn't have signed one of those guys? Why isn't a budget team looking at adding cheap NHL talent for free?

You add one or two of those guys and the acquisitions of Burrows and Stalberg become completely unnecessary. We still would have a great prospect in Dahlen, and we could use the 3rd to acquire a top 6 winger in Vanek to boost scoring or to bolster the blueline with Mike Stone.

Amazing the possibilities that open up when a team has depth to open the season.

Players have to WANT to sign here for $1 million. Just because they signed with other teams for that amount, doesn't mean they would have with us.

...and guaranteed their goal and point totals would NOT be that high with Ottawa.

 

[BonkTastic]

NHLers signed for under 1M this offseason
Marchessault: 30G, 51P for 0.95M
Eaves: 32G, 51P for 1M
Gagner: 18G, 50P for 0.65M
Versteeg: 15G, 37P for 0.95M
Sceviour: 9G, 24P for 0.85M
Connolly: 15G, 23P for 0.85M
Korpikoski: 8G, 20P for 1M
White: 9G, 16P for 1M

Couldn't have signed one of those guys? Why isn't a budget team looking at adding cheap NHL talent for free?

OK there, Captain Hindsight, let's go through these one by one:

1) Marchessault was a 25 year old with less than 50 NHL games of experience, and turned down a similar offer from the Lightning to go to Florida, because the Panthers promised him a chance for a spot in their top 6. They aggressively went after him, and made promises that most other teams weren't prepared to give, and he specifically chose the Panthers DESPITE Tampa allegedly offering more than Florida did because it offered him the best position to advance his career, and he sacrificed money in 2016-17 for a chance to put himself in as good a position as he could for when he hits UFA next year. But I'm sure WE were going to offer a completely unproven 25 year old a spot in OUR top-6, right? Sure thing.

2) Eaves hadn't played a 60-game season in 6 years (only two 70-game seasons in his entire career), and has scored only 33 goals SINCE 2011. Total. Obviously we were supposed to know that this was the year he would not only actually stay healthy during the regular season, but also score as many goals in one year as he has in every year, combined, since the first Obama Administration put together? Right? And we knew that Eaves was going to stay healthy all year and not get hurt in the playo... oh wait, Eaves missed almost the entire playoffs due to injury. Who could have guessed?!? But we knew this guy was going to have a career regular season as a 33 year old? Ok, great.

3) Gagner is the only legit guy on this list, by the way, as far as guys where maybe it made sense to sign them during the 2016 offseason - guys who didn't either have tons of warts or specifically would never have chosen us because they signed in places where they were guaranteed to get more ice time, and take less money in order to put themselves in as good a position as they could for their next contract. Gagner was a great contract for a guy who only really had one down year with Philly.

4) Versteeg bailed on the Swiss League... no wait, that's not correct - Versteeg couldn't get health insurance in Switzerland to play in the Swiss League. Which threw up huge red flags about him and his future. And then he goes to Oilers camp, but bails on them to sign with the Flames sight-unseen because they had literally zero depth on their wings and they promised him legit ice time... but yeah, I'm sure WE would have offered an injured, defensively inept 15 goal scorer prime ice time too over our kids, right? Worked out great for the Flames in hindsight, but come on.

5) Colton Sceviour is ****ing terrible. I don't want him on the team at any point next year, let alone this past season. Putting up 24 points on that Panthers team while getting legit top-6 minutes for decent stretches during the season (when the Panthers were super-injured) while being undersized and defensibly questionable is bad.

6) Brett Connolly has been one of the biggest draft busts in the past decade, but he scored 15 goals for the Caps this year while being ULTRA sheltered on a team that is loaded with offensive stars, while being defensively DEPLORABLE, so we should have signed him too, right? We should have known that if we give this guy 10 mins a night with a diet of one-sided offensive-zone starts, we too could have another healthy scratch in the playoffs (like Connolly was this year). Great!

7) Lauri Korpikoski? Really? Really? Have you followed the career of Lauri Korpikoski over the past 5 years?

8) I'm not even going to acknowledge Ryan White, outside of this one sentence. You should be ashamed that you put him on that list.


It's not as easy as looking at stats in hindsight and making a list of guys we should have signed. If it was, these guys would have gone for more than their contracts. If everyone knew Marchessault was going to score 30 goals, he'd have been a $5mil player. Players go to teams for more reasons than money. Marchessault and Versteeg went to Forida and Calgary specifically because they were promised ice time and an opportunity that we couldn't give them here in Ottawa. If you knew in July of last year that Dorion had promised Marchessault a top-6 opportunity, based on what he had done in his career at that point, or Versteeg, based on his medical history at the time, you'd have been asking for his head. BUT LET'S JUST IGNORE ALL OF THE CONTEXT THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE DECISIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, AND PLAY FANTASY GM IN A WORLD WHERE WE CAN JUST CHERRY PICK THE BEST BARGAINS AND IGNORE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND SAY "WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT". I mean, that's WAY easier, right? Who wants to mess around with all of that messy "real life context"? Forget that, this is a video game, and we can just reset when things go wrong, and go back to an earlier save point when we know how the future plays out, right? Right.

Plus, you are disregarding that in bringing in guys like Burrows and Stalberg, they were brought in to fill specific holes in Guy Boucher's system. Does anyone on your list, who we would have had a realistic shot at signing, provide the high-end penalty-killing and regular-strength shut-down role on the wing that Stalberg did when he got here, that we desperately needed? Would Colton Sceviour had really filled that hole? Come on.

Gagner is the only legit "missed opportunity" you can make a case for without the benefit of a huge, IHOP-sized serving of hindsight. Marchessault might not have even scored 15 goals with us, let alone 30, because he would have never had the same opportunity here as he did in Florida (due both to a lack of depth on the Panthers wings as well as Injury). Same for Versteeg, who would have been a mainstay on the 4th line with us and completely forgettable. Eaves could have been hurt, like he always is, and miss the playoff run with injuries, like he always does (this year included). Sceviour is a healthy scratch on this team. Korpikoski is the most forgettable depth winger in the league. Connolly would have never in a million years been given a chance on a Guy Boucher coached team. And Ryan White is Ryan White (damnit, you made me mention him again).

You need to only look at Chris Kelly to see how some sub-$1mil contracts can pan out in a bad way instead of a good one. Maybe we made the wrong gamble with Kelly over a guy like Gagner (not even sure if we had an opportunity to sign Gagner, even), if you want to make the argument that "we signed the wrong Sub-$1mil guy", then fine, I guess. That has legs. There were flags about Kelly that were pretty obvious, but we took the plunge anyways and he didn't play any meaningful hockey for us in the last 30 games of the season, so clearly not a great signing in retrospect. We can debate that... but to say we were foolish because "this list of sub-$1mil surprises exists" is the height of revisionist thinking.

Let's just throw 1-way contracts at 3-4 guys with SERIOUS question marks ever year, because sometimes they pay off, right? What happens when they don't?

 

[Xspyrit]

OK there, Captain Hindsight, let's go through these one by one:

1) Marchessault was a 25 year old with less than 50 NHL games of experience, and turned down a similar offer from the Lightning to go to Florida, because the Panthers promised him a chance for a spot in their top 6. They aggressively went after him, and made promises that most other teams weren't prepared to give, and he specifically chose the Panthers DESPITE Tampa allegedly offering more than Florida did because it offered him the best position to advance his career, and he sacrificed money in 2016-17 for a chance to put himself in as good a position as he could for when he hits UFA next year. But I'm sure WE were going to offer a completely unproven 25 year old a spot in OUR top-6, right? Sure thing.

2) Eaves hadn't played a 60-game season in 6 years (only two 70-game seasons in his entire career), and has scored only 33 goals SINCE 2011. Total. Obviously we were supposed to know that this was the year he would not only actually stay healthy during the regular season, but also score as many goals in one year as he has in every year, combined, since the first Obama Administration put together? Right? And we knew that Eaves was going to stay healthy all year and not get hurt in the playo... oh wait, Eaves missed almost the entire playoffs due to injury. Who could have guessed?!? But we knew this guy was going to have a career regular season as a 33 year old? Ok, great.

3) Gagner is the only legit guy on this list, by the way, as far as guys where maybe it made sense to sign them during the 2016 offseason - guys who didn't either have tons of warts or specifically would never have chosen us because they signed in places where they were guaranteed to get more ice time, and take less money in order to put themselves in as good a position as they could for their next contract. Gagner was a great contract for a guy who only really had one down year with Philly.

4) Versteeg bailed on the Swiss League... no wait, that's not correct - Versteeg couldn't get health insurance in Switzerland to play in the Swiss League. Which threw up huge red flags about him and his future. And then he goes to Oilers camp, but bails on them to sign with the Flames sight-unseen because they had literally zero depth on their wings and they promised him legit ice time... but yeah, I'm sure WE would have offered an injured, defensively inept 15 goal scorer prime ice time too over our kids, right? Worked out great for the Flames in hindsight, but come on.

5) Colton Sceviour is ****ing terrible. I don't want him on the team at any point next year, let alone this past season. Putting up 24 points on that Panthers team while getting legit top-6 minutes for decent stretches during the season (when the Panthers were super-injured) while being undersized and defensibly questionable is bad.

6) Brett Connolly has been one of the biggest draft busts in the past decade, but he scored 15 goals for the Caps this year while being ULTRA sheltered on a team that is loaded with offensive stars, while being defensively DEPLORABLE, so we should have signed him too, right? We should have known that if we give this guy 10 mins a night with a diet of one-sided offensive-zone starts, we too could have another healthy scratch in the playoffs (like Connolly was this year). Great!

7) Lauri Korpikoski? Really? Really? Have you followed the career of Lauri Korpikoski over the past 5 years?

8) I'm not even going to acknowledge Ryan White, outside of this one sentence. You should be ashamed that you put him on that list.


It's not as easy as looking at stats in hindsight and making a list of guys we should have signed. If it was, these guys would have gone for more than their contracts. If everyone knew Marchessault was going to score 30 goals, he'd have been a $5mil player. Players go to teams for more reasons than money. Marchessault and Versteeg went to Forida and Calgary specifically because they were promised ice time and an opportunity that we couldn't give them here in Ottawa. If you knew in July of last year that Dorion had promised Marchessault a top-6 opportunity, based on what he had done in his career at that point, or Versteeg, based on his medical history at the time, you'd have been asking for his head. BUT LET'S JUST IGNORE ALL OF THE CONTEXT THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE DECISIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, AND PLAY FANTASY GM IN A WORLD WHERE WE CAN JUST CHERRY PICK THE BEST BARGAINS AND IGNORE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND SAY "WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT". I mean, that's WAY easier, right? Who wants to mess around with all of that messy "real life context"? Forget that, this is a video game, and we can just reset when things go wrong, and go back to an earlier save point when we know how the future plays out, right? Right.

Plus, you are disregarding that in bringing in guys like Burrows and Stalberg, they were brought in to fill specific holes in Guy Boucher's system. Does anyone on your list, who we would have had a realistic shot at signing, provide the high-end penalty-killing and regular-strength shut-down role on the wing that Stalberg did when he got here, that we desperately needed? Would Colton Sceviour had really filled that hole? Come on.

Gagner is the only legit "missed opportunity" you can make a case for without the benefit of a huge, IHOP-sized serving of hindsight. Marchessault might not have even scored 15 goals with us, let alone 30, because he would have never had the same opportunity here as he did in Florida (due both to a lack of depth on the Panthers wings as well as Injury). Same for Versteeg, who would have been a mainstay on the 4th line with us and completely forgettable. Eaves could have been hurt, like he always is, and miss the playoff run with injuries, like he always does (this year included). Sceviour is a healthy scratch on this team. Korpikoski is the most forgettable depth winger in the league. Connolly would have never in a million years been given a chance on a Guy Boucher coached team. And Ryan White is Ryan White (damnit, you made me mention him again).

You need to only look at Chris Kelly to see how some sub-$1mil contracts can pan out in a bad way instead of a good one. Maybe we made the wrong gamble with Kelly over a guy like Gagner (not even sure if we had an opportunity to sign Gagner, even), if you want to make the argument that "we signed the wrong Sub-$1mil guy", then fine, I guess. That has legs. There were flags about Kelly that were pretty obvious, but we took the plunge anyways and he didn't play any meaningful hockey for us in the last 30 games of the season, so clearly not a great signing in retrospect. We can debate that... but to say we were foolish because "this list of sub-$1mil surprises exists" is the height of revisionist thinking.

Let's just throw 1-way contracts at 3-4 guys with SERIOUS question marks ever year, because sometimes they pay off, right? What happens when they don't?

It is so much work to counter those "hindsight arguments", I don't have time these days so I am glad other people are putting the effort. I'll add a little something to contribute and hopefully it will close this argument for a while (doubt it though lol as they always come back with the same stuff over and over)

Expecting to sign many of those "miraculous" bargain deals is crazy. In the recent past (and present), Sens themselves had deals like that :

Smith, Zack @ $1,887,500
Turris, Kyle @ $3,500,000
Anderson, Craig @ $4,200,000
Karlsson, Erik @ $6,500,000
Stone, Mark @ $3,500,000
Hoffman, Mike @ $2,000,000 (2015-16) + $750,000 (2014-15)
Pageau, Jean-Gabriel @ $900,000
Hammond, Andrew @ $720,000 (2014-15)
Pyatt, Tom @ $800,000
Wideman, Chris @ $800,000
Dzingel, Ryan @ $750,000
Claesson, Fredrik @ $700,000
Condon, Mike @ $575,000

And more if you dig.

Or maybe Hale is right, we should sign everyone of these "career in jeopardy" guys, hoping one pans out even it means we are over the 50 contracts limit or 23 roster spots... Oh wait, we can't right?

 

[GWNR]

OK there, Captain Hindsight, let's go through these one by one:

1) Marchessault was a 25 year old with less than 50 NHL games of experience, and turned down a similar offer from the Lightning to go to Florida, because the Panthers promised him a chance for a spot in their top 6. They aggressively went after him, and made promises that most other teams weren't prepared to give, and he specifically chose the Panthers DESPITE Tampa allegedly offering more than Florida did because it offered him the best position to advance his career, and he sacrificed money in 2016-17 for a chance to put himself in as good a position as he could for when he hits UFA next year. But I'm sure WE were going to offer a completely unproven 25 year old a spot in OUR top-6, right? Sure thing.

2) Eaves hadn't played a 60-game season in 6 years (only two 70-game seasons in his entire career), and has scored only 33 goals SINCE 2011. Total. Obviously we were supposed to know that this was the year he would not only actually stay healthy during the regular season, but also score as many goals in one year as he has in every year, combined, since the first Obama Administration put together? Right? And we knew that Eaves was going to stay healthy all year and not get hurt in the playo... oh wait, Eaves missed almost the entire playoffs due to injury. Who could have guessed?!? But we knew this guy was going to have a career regular season as a 33 year old? Ok, great.

3) Gagner is the only legit guy on this list, by the way, as far as guys where maybe it made sense to sign them during the 2016 offseason - guys who didn't either have tons of warts or specifically would never have chosen us because they signed in places where they were guaranteed to get more ice time, and take less money in order to put themselves in as good a position as they could for their next contract. Gagner was a great contract for a guy who only really had one down year with Philly.

4) Versteeg bailed on the Swiss League... no wait, that's not correct - Versteeg couldn't get health insurance in Switzerland to play in the Swiss League. Which threw up huge red flags about him and his future. And then he goes to Oilers camp, but bails on them to sign with the Flames sight-unseen because they had literally zero depth on their wings and they promised him legit ice time... but yeah, I'm sure WE would have offered an injured, defensively inept 15 goal scorer prime ice time too over our kids, right? Worked out great for the Flames in hindsight, but come on.

5) Colton Sceviour is ****ing terrible. I don't want him on the team at any point next year, let alone this past season. Putting up 24 points on that Panthers team while getting legit top-6 minutes for decent stretches during the season (when the Panthers were super-injured) while being undersized and defensibly questionable is bad.

6) Brett Connolly has been one of the biggest draft busts in the past decade, but he scored 15 goals for the Caps this year while being ULTRA sheltered on a team that is loaded with offensive stars, while being defensively DEPLORABLE, so we should have signed him too, right? We should have known that if we give this guy 10 mins a night with a diet of one-sided offensive-zone starts, we too could have another healthy scratch in the playoffs (like Connolly was this year). Great!

7) Lauri Korpikoski? Really? Really? Have you followed the career of Lauri Korpikoski over the past 5 years?

8) I'm not even going to acknowledge Ryan White, outside of this one sentence. You should be ashamed that you put him on that list.


It's not as easy as looking at stats in hindsight and making a list of guys we should have signed. If it was, these guys would have gone for more than their contracts. If everyone knew Marchessault was going to score 30 goals, he'd have been a $5mil player. Players go to teams for more reasons than money. Marchessault and Versteeg went to Forida and Calgary specifically because they were promised ice time and an opportunity that we couldn't give them here in Ottawa. If you knew in July of last year that Dorion had promised Marchessault a top-6 opportunity, based on what he had done in his career at that point, or Versteeg, based on his medical history at the time, you'd have been asking for his head. BUT LET'S JUST IGNORE ALL OF THE CONTEXT THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE DECISIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, AND PLAY FANTASY GM IN A WORLD WHERE WE CAN JUST CHERRY PICK THE BEST BARGAINS AND IGNORE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND SAY "WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT". I mean, that's WAY easier, right? Who wants to mess around with all of that messy "real life context"? Forget that, this is a video game, and we can just reset when things go wrong, and go back to an earlier save point when we know how the future plays out, right? Right.

Plus, you are disregarding that in bringing in guys like Burrows and Stalberg, they were brought in to fill specific holes in Guy Boucher's system. Does anyone on your list, who we would have had a realistic shot at signing, provide the high-end penalty-killing and regular-strength shut-down role on the wing that Stalberg did when he got here, that we desperately needed? Would Colton Sceviour had really filled that hole? Come on.

Gagner is the only legit "missed opportunity" you can make a case for without the benefit of a huge, IHOP-sized serving of hindsight. Marchessault might not have even scored 15 goals with us, let alone 30, because he would have never had the same opportunity here as he did in Florida (due both to a lack of depth on the Panthers wings as well as Injury). Same for Versteeg, who would have been a mainstay on the 4th line with us and completely forgettable. Eaves could have been hurt, like he always is, and miss the playoff run with injuries, like he always does (this year included). Sceviour is a healthy scratch on this team. Korpikoski is the most forgettable depth winger in the league. Connolly would have never in a million years been given a chance on a Guy Boucher coached team. And Ryan White is Ryan White (damnit, you made me mention him again).

You need to only look at Chris Kelly to see how some sub-$1mil contracts can pan out in a bad way instead of a good one. Maybe we made the wrong gamble with Kelly over a guy like Gagner (not even sure if we had an opportunity to sign Gagner, even), if you want to make the argument that "we signed the wrong Sub-$1mil guy", then fine, I guess. That has legs. There were flags about Kelly that were pretty obvious, but we took the plunge anyways and he didn't play any meaningful hockey for us in the last 30 games of the season, so clearly not a great signing in retrospect. We can debate that... but to say we were foolish because "this list of sub-$1mil surprises exists" is the height of revisionist thinking.

Let's just throw 1-way contracts at 3-4 guys with SERIOUS question marks ever year, because sometimes they pay off, right? What happens when they don't?

 

[umma gumma]

OK there, Captain Hindsight, let's go through these one by one:

1) Marchessault was a 25 year old with less than 50 NHL games of experience, and turned down a similar offer from the Lightning to go to Florida, because the Panthers promised him a chance for a spot in their top 6. They aggressively went after him, and made promises that most other teams weren't prepared to give, and he specifically chose the Panthers DESPITE Tampa allegedly offering more than Florida did because it offered him the best position to advance his career, and he sacrificed money in 2016-17 for a chance to put himself in as good a position as he could for when he hits UFA next year. But I'm sure WE were going to offer a completely unproven 25 year old a spot in OUR top-6, right? Sure thing.

2) Eaves hadn't played a 60-game season in 6 years (only two 70-game seasons in his entire career), and has scored only 33 goals SINCE 2011. Total. Obviously we were supposed to know that this was the year he would not only actually stay healthy during the regular season, but also score as many goals in one year as he has in every year, combined, since the first Obama Administration put together? Right? And we knew that Eaves was going to stay healthy all year and not get hurt in the playo... oh wait, Eaves missed almost the entire playoffs due to injury. Who could have guessed?!? But we knew this guy was going to have a career regular season as a 33 year old? Ok, great.

3) Gagner is the only legit guy on this list, by the way, as far as guys where maybe it made sense to sign them during the 2016 offseason - guys who didn't either have tons of warts or specifically would never have chosen us because they signed in places where they were guaranteed to get more ice time, and take less money in order to put themselves in as good a position as they could for their next contract. Gagner was a great contract for a guy who only really had one down year with Philly.

4) Versteeg bailed on the Swiss League... no wait, that's not correct - Versteeg couldn't get health insurance in Switzerland to play in the Swiss League. Which threw up huge red flags about him and his future. And then he goes to Oilers camp, but bails on them to sign with the Flames sight-unseen because they had literally zero depth on their wings and they promised him legit ice time... but yeah, I'm sure WE would have offered an injured, defensively inept 15 goal scorer prime ice time too over our kids, right? Worked out great for the Flames in hindsight, but come on.

5) Colton Sceviour is ****ing terrible. I don't want him on the team at any point next year, let alone this past season. Putting up 24 points on that Panthers team while getting legit top-6 minutes for decent stretches during the season (when the Panthers were super-injured) while being undersized and defensibly questionable is bad.

6) Brett Connolly has been one of the biggest draft busts in the past decade, but he scored 15 goals for the Caps this year while being ULTRA sheltered on a team that is loaded with offensive stars, while being defensively DEPLORABLE, so we should have signed him too, right? We should have known that if we give this guy 10 mins a night with a diet of one-sided offensive-zone starts, we too could have another healthy scratch in the playoffs (like Connolly was this year). Great!

7) Lauri Korpikoski? Really? Really? Have you followed the career of Lauri Korpikoski over the past 5 years?

8) I'm not even going to acknowledge Ryan White, outside of this one sentence. You should be ashamed that you put him on that list.


It's not as easy as looking at stats in hindsight and making a list of guys we should have signed. If it was, these guys would have gone for more than their contracts. If everyone knew Marchessault was going to score 30 goals, he'd have been a $5mil player. Players go to teams for more reasons than money. Marchessault and Versteeg went to Forida and Calgary specifically because they were promised ice time and an opportunity that we couldn't give them here in Ottawa. If you knew in July of last year that Dorion had promised Marchessault a top-6 opportunity, based on what he had done in his career at that point, or Versteeg, based on his medical history at the time, you'd have been asking for his head. BUT LET'S JUST IGNORE ALL OF THE CONTEXT THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE DECISIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, AND PLAY FANTASY GM IN A WORLD WHERE WE CAN JUST CHERRY PICK THE BEST BARGAINS AND IGNORE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND SAY "WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT". I mean, that's WAY easier, right? Who wants to mess around with all of that messy "real life context"? Forget that, this is a video game, and we can just reset when things go wrong, and go back to an earlier save point when we know how the future plays out, right? Right.

Plus, you are disregarding that in bringing in guys like Burrows and Stalberg, they were brought in to fill specific holes in Guy Boucher's system. Does anyone on your list, who we would have had a realistic shot at signing, provide the high-end penalty-killing and regular-strength shut-down role on the wing that Stalberg did when he got here, that we desperately needed? Would Colton Sceviour had really filled that hole? Come on.

Gagner is the only legit "missed opportunity" you can make a case for without the benefit of a huge, IHOP-sized serving of hindsight. Marchessault might not have even scored 15 goals with us, let alone 30, because he would have never had the same opportunity here as he did in Florida (due both to a lack of depth on the Panthers wings as well as Injury). Same for Versteeg, who would have been a mainstay on the 4th line with us and completely forgettable. Eaves could have been hurt, like he always is, and miss the playoff run with injuries, like he always does (this year included). Sceviour is a healthy scratch on this team. Korpikoski is the most forgettable depth winger in the league. Connolly would have never in a million years been given a chance on a Guy Boucher coached team. And Ryan White is Ryan White (damnit, you made me mention him again).

You need to only look at Chris Kelly to see how some sub-$1mil contracts can pan out in a bad way instead of a good one. Maybe we made the wrong gamble with Kelly over a guy like Gagner (not even sure if we had an opportunity to sign Gagner, even), if you want to make the argument that "we signed the wrong Sub-$1mil guy", then fine, I guess. That has legs. There were flags about Kelly that were pretty obvious, but we took the plunge anyways and he didn't play any meaningful hockey for us in the last 30 games of the season, so clearly not a great signing in retrospect. We can debate that... but to say we were foolish because "this list of sub-$1mil surprises exists" is the height of revisionist thinking.

Let's just throw 1-way contracts at 3-4 guys with SERIOUS question marks ever year, because sometimes they pay off, right? What happens when they don't?

Lets make it three in a row!

 

[Uchiha]

OK there, Captain Hindsight, let's go through these one by one:

1) Marchessault was a 25 year old with less than 50 NHL games of experience, and turned down a similar offer from the Lightning to go to Florida, because the Panthers promised him a chance for a spot in their top 6. They aggressively went after him, and made promises that most other teams weren't prepared to give, and he specifically chose the Panthers DESPITE Tampa allegedly offering more than Florida did because it offered him the best position to advance his career, and he sacrificed money in 2016-17 for a chance to put himself in as good a position as he could for when he hits UFA next year. But I'm sure WE were going to offer a completely unproven 25 year old a spot in OUR top-6, right? Sure thing.

2) Eaves hadn't played a 60-game season in 6 years (only two 70-game seasons in his entire career), and has scored only 33 goals SINCE 2011. Total. Obviously we were supposed to know that this was the year he would not only actually stay healthy during the regular season, but also score as many goals in one year as he has in every year, combined, since the first Obama Administration put together? Right? And we knew that Eaves was going to stay healthy all year and not get hurt in the playo... oh wait, Eaves missed almost the entire playoffs due to injury. Who could have guessed?!? But we knew this guy was going to have a career regular season as a 33 year old? Ok, great.

3) Gagner is the only legit guy on this list, by the way, as far as guys where maybe it made sense to sign them during the 2016 offseason - guys who didn't either have tons of warts or specifically would never have chosen us because they signed in places where they were guaranteed to get more ice time, and take less money in order to put themselves in as good a position as they could for their next contract. Gagner was a great contract for a guy who only really had one down year with Philly.

4) Versteeg bailed on the Swiss League... no wait, that's not correct - Versteeg couldn't get health insurance in Switzerland to play in the Swiss League. Which threw up huge red flags about him and his future. And then he goes to Oilers camp, but bails on them to sign with the Flames sight-unseen because they had literally zero depth on their wings and they promised him legit ice time... but yeah, I'm sure WE would have offered an injured, defensively inept 15 goal scorer prime ice time too over our kids, right? Worked out great for the Flames in hindsight, but come on.

5) Colton Sceviour is ****ing terrible. I don't want him on the team at any point next year, let alone this past season. Putting up 24 points on that Panthers team while getting legit top-6 minutes for decent stretches during the season (when the Panthers were super-injured) while being undersized and defensibly questionable is bad.

6) Brett Connolly has been one of the biggest draft busts in the past decade, but he scored 15 goals for the Caps this year while being ULTRA sheltered on a team that is loaded with offensive stars, while being defensively DEPLORABLE, so we should have signed him too, right? We should have known that if we give this guy 10 mins a night with a diet of one-sided offensive-zone starts, we too could have another healthy scratch in the playoffs (like Connolly was this year). Great!

7) Lauri Korpikoski? Really? Really? Have you followed the career of Lauri Korpikoski over the past 5 years?

8) I'm not even going to acknowledge Ryan White, outside of this one sentence. You should be ashamed that you put him on that list.


It's not as easy as looking at stats in hindsight and making a list of guys we should have signed. If it was, these guys would have gone for more than their contracts. If everyone knew Marchessault was going to score 30 goals, he'd have been a $5mil player. Players go to teams for more reasons than money. Marchessault and Versteeg went to Forida and Calgary specifically because they were promised ice time and an opportunity that we couldn't give them here in Ottawa. If you knew in July of last year that Dorion had promised Marchessault a top-6 opportunity, based on what he had done in his career at that point, or Versteeg, based on his medical history at the time, you'd have been asking for his head. BUT LET'S JUST IGNORE ALL OF THE CONTEXT THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE DECISIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, AND PLAY FANTASY GM IN A WORLD WHERE WE CAN JUST CHERRY PICK THE BEST BARGAINS AND IGNORE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND SAY "WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT". I mean, that's WAY easier, right? Who wants to mess around with all of that messy "real life context"? Forget that, this is a video game, and we can just reset when things go wrong, and go back to an earlier save point when we know how the future plays out, right? Right.

Plus, you are disregarding that in bringing in guys like Burrows and Stalberg, they were brought in to fill specific holes in Guy Boucher's system. Does anyone on your list, who we would have had a realistic shot at signing, provide the high-end penalty-killing and regular-strength shut-down role on the wing that Stalberg did when he got here, that we desperately needed? Would Colton Sceviour had really filled that hole? Come on.

Gagner is the only legit "missed opportunity" you can make a case for without the benefit of a huge, IHOP-sized serving of hindsight. Marchessault might not have even scored 15 goals with us, let alone 30, because he would have never had the same opportunity here as he did in Florida (due both to a lack of depth on the Panthers wings as well as Injury). Same for Versteeg, who would have been a mainstay on the 4th line with us and completely forgettable. Eaves could have been hurt, like he always is, and miss the playoff run with injuries, like he always does (this year included). Sceviour is a healthy scratch on this team. Korpikoski is the most forgettable depth winger in the league. Connolly would have never in a million years been given a chance on a Guy Boucher coached team. And Ryan White is Ryan White (damnit, you made me mention him again).

You need to only look at Chris Kelly to see how some sub-$1mil contracts can pan out in a bad way instead of a good one. Maybe we made the wrong gamble with Kelly over a guy like Gagner (not even sure if we had an opportunity to sign Gagner, even), if you want to make the argument that "we signed the wrong Sub-$1mil guy", then fine, I guess. That has legs. There were flags about Kelly that were pretty obvious, but we took the plunge anyways and he didn't play any meaningful hockey for us in the last 30 games of the season, so clearly not a great signing in retrospect. We can debate that... but to say we were foolish because "this list of sub-$1mil surprises exists" is the height of revisionist thinking.

Let's just throw 1-way contracts at 3-4 guys with SERIOUS question marks ever year, because sometimes they pay off, right? What happens when they don't?

Vesteeg "bailed" on the Oilers because he wasn't even offered a contract. He was givin a PTO and the Flames actually offered him something solid.

Also I'd take an injury prone Eaves over Kelly who missed a WHOLE YEAR with a broken femur.

 

[JungleBeat]

Count me in the group that would have the better player (Stafford) for the significantly lower cost.

We gave up Dahlen and a 3rd for two fourth liners when we could have easily gotten two for a 5th and a 6th.

I like both Stalberg and Burrows in that role, but in his early days as a GM, Dorion clearly overpays.

Put me on this list as well. You don't give up a top prospect and a 3rd for two fourth liners. That's a big overpayment by Dorion. He's giving away draft picks like candy.

Stafford + Vanek >> Burrows + Stalberg

Edit: Ugh, just remembered that we extended Burrows for two freaking more years as well. We could've at least got Hanson instead.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You call me Captain Hindsight, but I praised the signings of Marchessault, Sceviour, Eaves and Connolly when they happened, not after they proved themselves good signings. How is that hindsight?

Bonk you make some good points, but a whole lot more excuses. The best managers are judged by hindsight. Should Kekalainen not be praised for signing a 50P guy in Gagner for pennies? What about Rowe with Marchessault? Nill with Eaves?

I've mentioned this before, but using the same kind of logic, the worst trade Murray made was trading Rundblad, the SHL Norris winner and the top D prospect in hockey, along with a 2nd for a major disappointment in Turris. The best trade would be getting a rookie with 24P in 35GP in Conacher for an unproven young Bishop. SIGNINGS/TRADES ARE ONLY GOOD IF THEY ARE GOOD IN HINDSIGHT (with few exceptions).

I'm not in the business of making excuses. There were a number of cheap NHLers available on July 1 at a cost of zero assets. Dorion sat on his hands all summer and then traded away Dahlen+3rd to fix the depth of this team, which he neglected to fix via free agency. You may not think this matters, but in the long-run throwing away prospects and picks leads to a worse team, and I want this team to be good now and in the future, not just right now.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Put me on this list as well. You don't give up a top prospect and a 3rd for two fourth liners. That's a big overpayment by Dorion. He's giving away draft picks like candy.

Stafford + Vanek >> Burrows + Stalberg

Edit: Ugh, just remembered that we extended Burrows for two freaking more years as well. We could've at least got Hanson instead.

I wonder if adding a PP beast like Vanek or a good 2nd pairing guy like Stone could have pushed us over Pittsburgh and into the finals. God knows two 4th liners didn't do that for us.

Would have been cheaper at the very least.

 

[swiftwin]

Put me on this list as well. You don't give up a top prospect and a 3rd for two fourth liners. That's a big overpayment by Dorion. He's giving away draft picks like candy.

Stafford + Vanek >> Burrows + Stalberg

Edit: Ugh, just remembered that we extended Burrows for two freaking more years as well. We could've at least got Hanson instead.

Oh my god, so much wrong here.

First, Burrows + Stalberg >> Stafford + Vanek. Like seriously. Do you even watch hockey? Not only are they better, but they are better fits for our team.

Secondly, Burrows performed far better for us than Hansen did for the Sharks. The Sharks also paid way more for Hansen than we did for Burrows.

 

[swiftwin]

I wonder if adding a PP beast like Vanek or a good 2nd pairing guy like Stone could have pushed us over Pittsburgh and into the finals. God knows two 4th liners didn't do that for us.

Would have been cheaper at the very least.

Why stop there? We should have also added a 1st line power forward like Brian Boyle, and a PP quarterback like Brendan Smith while we're at it.

 

[aragorn]

I wonder if adding a PP beast like Vanek or a good 2nd pairing guy like Stone could have pushed us over Pittsburgh and into the finals. God knows two 4th liners didn't do that for us.

Would have been cheaper at the very least.

Well those two 4th liners did help to get us within one goal of going to the SCF while the other guys you mentioned did not help their teams get as far for whatever reasons. While I'm not a fan of Vanek I do wonder if a guy like Jarg or Vanek on the 3rd line would help improve scoring? That would have to be weighed against this coach's obsession with the forwards being defensively responsible & speed which both those guys are slowly losing.

It looks to me like Ottawa is building through the draft & youth & waiting for their prospects to take the next step & improve the team internally & fill in where necessary through trades that they can afford. Looking at the team right now & who may not be on it next season & who will soon challenge for spots, it does look somewhat promising. Harpur, Chabot, Englund, White & soon Brown, Jaros, Perron & Hogberg all have the potential to make the team better, although incrementally.

 

[Blarginator]

OK there, Captain Hindsight, let's go through these one by one:

1) Marchessault was a 25 year old with less than 50 NHL games of experience, and turned down a similar offer from the Lightning to go to Florida, because the Panthers promised him a chance for a spot in their top 6. They aggressively went after him, and made promises that most other teams weren't prepared to give, and he specifically chose the Panthers DESPITE Tampa allegedly offering more than Florida did because it offered him the best position to advance his career, and he sacrificed money in 2016-17 for a chance to put himself in as good a position as he could for when he hits UFA next year. But I'm sure WE were going to offer a completely unproven 25 year old a spot in OUR top-6, right? Sure thing.

2) Eaves hadn't played a 60-game season in 6 years (only two 70-game seasons in his entire career), and has scored only 33 goals SINCE 2011. Total. Obviously we were supposed to know that this was the year he would not only actually stay healthy during the regular season, but also score as many goals in one year as he has in every year, combined, since the first Obama Administration put together? Right? And we knew that Eaves was going to stay healthy all year and not get hurt in the playo... oh wait, Eaves missed almost the entire playoffs due to injury. Who could have guessed?!? But we knew this guy was going to have a career regular season as a 33 year old? Ok, great.

3) Gagner is the only legit guy on this list, by the way, as far as guys where maybe it made sense to sign them during the 2016 offseason - guys who didn't either have tons of warts or specifically would never have chosen us because they signed in places where they were guaranteed to get more ice time, and take less money in order to put themselves in as good a position as they could for their next contract. Gagner was a great contract for a guy who only really had one down year with Philly.

4) Versteeg bailed on the Swiss League... no wait, that's not correct - Versteeg couldn't get health insurance in Switzerland to play in the Swiss League. Which threw up huge red flags about him and his future. And then he goes to Oilers camp, but bails on them to sign with the Flames sight-unseen because they had literally zero depth on their wings and they promised him legit ice time... but yeah, I'm sure WE would have offered an injured, defensively inept 15 goal scorer prime ice time too over our kids, right? Worked out great for the Flames in hindsight, but come on.

5) Colton Sceviour is ****ing terrible. I don't want him on the team at any point next year, let alone this past season. Putting up 24 points on that Panthers team while getting legit top-6 minutes for decent stretches during the season (when the Panthers were super-injured) while being undersized and defensibly questionable is bad.

6) Brett Connolly has been one of the biggest draft busts in the past decade, but he scored 15 goals for the Caps this year while being ULTRA sheltered on a team that is loaded with offensive stars, while being defensively DEPLORABLE, so we should have signed him too, right? We should have known that if we give this guy 10 mins a night with a diet of one-sided offensive-zone starts, we too could have another healthy scratch in the playoffs (like Connolly was this year). Great!

7) Lauri Korpikoski? Really? Really? Have you followed the career of Lauri Korpikoski over the past 5 years?

8) I'm not even going to acknowledge Ryan White, outside of this one sentence. You should be ashamed that you put him on that list.


It's not as easy as looking at stats in hindsight and making a list of guys we should have signed. If it was, these guys would have gone for more than their contracts. If everyone knew Marchessault was going to score 30 goals, he'd have been a $5mil player. Players go to teams for more reasons than money. Marchessault and Versteeg went to Forida and Calgary specifically because they were promised ice time and an opportunity that we couldn't give them here in Ottawa. If you knew in July of last year that Dorion had promised Marchessault a top-6 opportunity, based on what he had done in his career at that point, or Versteeg, based on his medical history at the time, you'd have been asking for his head. BUT LET'S JUST IGNORE ALL OF THE CONTEXT THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE DECISIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE MADE, AND PLAY FANTASY GM IN A WORLD WHERE WE CAN JUST CHERRY PICK THE BEST BARGAINS AND IGNORE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND SAY "WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT". I mean, that's WAY easier, right? Who wants to mess around with all of that messy "real life context"? Forget that, this is a video game, and we can just reset when things go wrong, and go back to an earlier save point when we know how the future plays out, right? Right.

Plus, you are disregarding that in bringing in guys like Burrows and Stalberg, they were brought in to fill specific holes in Guy Boucher's system. Does anyone on your list, who we would have had a realistic shot at signing, provide the high-end penalty-killing and regular-strength shut-down role on the wing that Stalberg did when he got here, that we desperately needed? Would Colton Sceviour had really filled that hole? Come on.

Gagner is the only legit "missed opportunity" you can make a case for without the benefit of a huge, IHOP-sized serving of hindsight. Marchessault might not have even scored 15 goals with us, let alone 30, because he would have never had the same opportunity here as he did in Florida (due both to a lack of depth on the Panthers wings as well as Injury). Same for Versteeg, who would have been a mainstay on the 4th line with us and completely forgettable. Eaves could have been hurt, like he always is, and miss the playoff run with injuries, like he always does (this year included). Sceviour is a healthy scratch on this team. Korpikoski is the most forgettable depth winger in the league. Connolly would have never in a million years been given a chance on a Guy Boucher coached team. And Ryan White is Ryan White (damnit, you made me mention him again).

You need to only look at Chris Kelly to see how some sub-$1mil contracts can pan out in a bad way instead of a good one. Maybe we made the wrong gamble with Kelly over a guy like Gagner (not even sure if we had an opportunity to sign Gagner, even), if you want to make the argument that "we signed the wrong Sub-$1mil guy", then fine, I guess. That has legs. There were flags about Kelly that were pretty obvious, but we took the plunge anyways and he didn't play any meaningful hockey for us in the last 30 games of the season, so clearly not a great signing in retrospect. We can debate that... but to say we were foolish because "this list of sub-$1mil surprises exists" is the height of revisionist thinking.

Let's just throw 1-way contracts at 3-4 guys with SERIOUS question marks ever year, because sometimes they pay off, right? What happens when they don't?

Excellent post Bonk, as always. Also, Dorion did sign a depth guy for under $1M in the offseason: Tom Pyatt. He got 23 points with us this year, a career high. He also fits the Guy Boucher's system perfectly hence why Boucher wanted to bring him in.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Why stop there? We should have also added a 1st line power forward like Brian Boyle, and a PP quarterback like Brendan Smith while we're at it.

Vanek had 48P in 68GP. That's a 58P pace - more than any Senator besides EK and Hoffman. Guy was a top line forward statistically.

Stone has been a good 2nd pairing guy for years now. One bad season playing on a terrible team doesn't change that. Dude was solid for the Flames down the stretch.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Oh my god, so much wrong here.

First, Burrows + Stalberg >> Stafford + Vanek. Like seriously. Do you even watch hockey? Not only are they better, but they are better fits for our team.

Secondly, Burrows performed far better for us than Hansen did for the Sharks. The Sharks also paid way more for Hansen than we did for Burrows.

Vanek alone > Burrows and Stalberg for the same reason that Hoffman > Burrows and Stalberg. He may be one-dimensional and soft, but the dude can put the puck in the net. Add a decent bottom 6er like Stafford and it's not even close.

Burrows had 0 goals in 17 games. Picked up a couple assists on OT winners (only one of them was a good play) and was invisible otherwise. He didn't help us at all.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Well those two 4th liners did help to get us within one goal of going to the SCF while the other guys you mentioned did not help their teams get as far for whatever reasons. While I'm not a fan of Vanek I do wonder if a guy like Jarg or Vanek on the 3rd line would help improve scoring? That would have to be weighed against this coach's obsession with the forwards being defensively responsible & speed which both those guys are slowly losing.

It looks to me like Ottawa is building through the draft & youth & waiting for their prospects to take the next step & improve the team internally & fill in where necessary through trades that they can afford. Looking at the team right now & who may not be on it next season & who will soon challenge for spots, it does look somewhat promising. Harpur, Chabot, Englund, White & soon Brown, Jaros, Perron & Hogberg all have the potential to make the team better, although incrementally.

That's the thing though, did Burrows and Stalberg help us all that much? There's a combined 0 goals, 7 assists in 32 games between the two of them.

Even though he had 3 less points, I thought Stalberg was miles better than Burrows and did play really well for us, but it's not like he was behind this team going to game 7 of the ECF - that was all EK, Boucher and some clutch hockey from Bobby and Pageau.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

That's the thing though, did Burrows and Stalberg help us all that much? There's a combined 0 goals, 7 assists in 32 games between the two of them.

Even though he had 3 less points, I thought Stalberg was miles better than Burrows and did play really well for us, but it's not like he was behind this team going to game 7 of the ECF - that was all EK, Boucher and some clutch hockey from Bobby and Pageau.

I disagree, I think the roleplayers play a much larger part in getting a team through rounds, even if they're not scoring points.

Stalberg more than burrows, the guy was a beast on the forecheck, played against top players and stopped them from scoring. Defensively responsible.

He's the kinda guy that helps a team win. THe team really needs to sign him

 

[Do Make Say Think]

You call me Captain Hindsight, but I praised the signings of Marchessault, Sceviour, Eaves and Connolly when they happened, not after they proved themselves good signings. How is that hindsight?

Bonk you make some good points, but a whole lot more excuses. The best managers are judged by hindsight. Should Kekalainen not be praised for signing a 50P guy in Gagner for pennies? What about Rowe with Marchessault? Nill with Eaves?

I've mentioned this before, but using the same kind of logic, the worst trade Murray made was trading Rundblad, the SHL Norris winner and the top D prospect in hockey, along with a 2nd for a major disappointment in Turris. The best trade would be getting a rookie with 24P in 35GP in Conacher for an unproven young Bishop. SIGNINGS/TRADES ARE ONLY GOOD IF THEY ARE GOOD IN HINDSIGHT (with few exceptions).

I'm not in the business of making excuses. There were a number of cheap NHLers available on July 1 at a cost of zero assets. Dorion sat on his hands all summer and then traded away Dahlen+3rd to fix the depth of this team, which he neglected to fix via free agency. You may not think this matters, but in the long-run throwing away prospects and picks leads to a worse team, and I want this team to be good now and in the future, not just right now.

Result-oriented thinking at it's absolute worst.

Let's play poker sometime.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Vesteeg "bailed" on the Oilers because he wasn't even offered a contract. He was givin a PTO and the Flames actually offered him something solid.

Also I'd take an injury prone Eaves over Kelly who missed a WHOLE YEAR with a broken femur.

Eaves struck lightning this year. Not a chance in hell he'd get more than 10 goals with Ottawa if he signed here for the whole season.

You can't just look at numbers, you have to look at the situation a player is in.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Result-oriented thinking at it's absolute worst.

Let's play poker sometime.

Result-oriented thinking? As opposed to what, hope-oriented thinking?

Evaluate based on results, not based on intentions.

I disagree, I think the roleplayers play a much larger part in getting a team through rounds, even if they're not scoring points.

Stalberg more than burrows, the guy was a beast on the forecheck, played against top players and stopped them from scoring. Defensively responsible.

He's the kinda guy that helps a team win. THe team really needs to sign him

If the role players had helped this team score goals, I'd agree with you, but Burrows, Stalberg, Smith, Dzingel, Pyatt, Wingels, White, Kelly and Neil had 5 goals, 13 points in a combined 94 games played. The offensive production from our role players was basically non-existent. They basically just went out there and didn't get scored on.

We made it to the ECF because Karlsson put up a Conn Smythe-type performance, Ryan and Pageau were clutch, the rest of our D was solid, and Boucher implemented a terrific defensive system that stifled the opposition. Our role players had little to do with it.

I do agree with re-signing Stalberg though. He's an excellent 4th line winger that I'd love to see in a Sens jersey next season.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Result-oriented thinking? As opposed to what, hope-oriented thinking?

As opposed to taking into consideration everything else; things like context and thought-process.

You are way out of your depth.

 

[Micklebot]

Vanek had 48P in 68GP. That's a 58P pace - more than any Senator besides EK and Hoffman. Guy was a top line forward statistically.

Stone has been a good 2nd pairing guy for years now. One bad season playing on a terrible team doesn't change that. Dude was solid for the Flames down the stretch.

I don't think Vanek would have gotten the same sort of opportunity here in Ottawa; > 70% ES OZ starts and ~3:00 PP TOI per game is about as cushy as it gets, and we needed bodies that could fill very different roles than what Vanek was doing. I mean, adding him probably helps (he likely bumps Dzingel out), but we still need somebody to fill the more defensive roles that Vanek is completely unsuited to. When Vanek moved to a better team in Florida (they looked like they had a chance at the wildcard spot until a disastrous month of March, go figure after their big deadline acquisition of Vanek) where he no longer got quite as cushy of deployment (still pretty damn cushy though), his numbers really fell.

Also, if you are going to use Vanek's pace, it's completely disingenuous to compare it to Ottawa's players raw totals. Pace to pace, or raw to raw. Turris paced at the same 58 pts pace, Stone paced at 62 pts.

Vanek was a good fit for Detroit, at least on the surface. He did not, however, appear to be a good fit at all in Florida, at least on the surface. Assuming he'd have fit in for Ottawa as he did in Detroit, rather than how he did in Florida isn't evaluating based on results, it's evaluating on hope. I mean, Burrows had more pts in Ottawa and played a better two way game than Vanek had in Florida. So does results oriented thinking not suggest that we got the superior player?

I totally get being upset that we overpaid for Burrows. I'm not at all upset that we passed on Vanek though, as imo he's a terrible fit for this team, where as Burrows is a pretty good fit.

 

[Micklebot]

As opposed to taking into consideration everything else; things like context and thought-process.

You are way out of your depth.

The idea that evaluation using results vs using process is an either or situation is absolutely asinine. Both are important.

Past results are important to help you refine your processes. Good processes are important in maximizing the likelihood of good results. Making decisions using only one or the other guarantees failure long term.

 

[GWNR]

The fact that someone could watch a full season and 3 rounds of the playoffs and not understand the importance of a player like Stalberg to execute the system is just mindblowing to me.

People only care about points. Stafford and Vanek are both horrible fits for the way the Senators played hockey.

Did we lose the asset management part? Absolutely. Did our team get better? Yes. So the latter answer makes me give a total of 0 ***** about the former answer.

It may bite us in the ass or it may turn out the way Condon's "asset management" loss turned out.

It is funny the same people were the ones complaining we gave up a fifth for the goalie that saved our season.

At some point the product on the ice becomes more important than the assets given up.