Van' Riemsdyk not available. Kadri's asking price is 'extremely high'

[ErnieLeafs]

So we're just assuming that the team is going to be **** for the next 4-6 years, even if we sign Stammer, draft Matthews, Tavares magically comes home, or any number of possibilities.

People like to talk as though the money is coming out of their pocket. As if no player should ever be locked up to term and get paid here. Like, do we just do the same thing to Nylander and Marner when their contra ts come up? It's a never ending cycle for some.

 

[Durrr]

So we're just assuming that the team is going to be **** for the next 4-6 years, even if we sign Stammer, draft Matthews, Tavares magically comes home, or any number of possibilities.

People like to talk as though the money is coming out of their pocket. As if no player should ever be locked up to term and get paid here. Like, do we just do the same thing to Nylander and Marner when their contra ts come up? It's a never ending cycle for some.

It's so true lol, people are already starting to do it for Rielly as well.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

It's so true lol, people are already starting to do it for Rielly as well.

****ing maddening. Cap Geek turned everyone into a GM, and now we're not allowed to keep nice things. Potential HOF'er? Oh... wait a tick, looks like he's an RFA. We better sell him off so we have the picks for this year's draft. Wouldn't want to miss out on a potential 1st liner....

Sometimes, it's okay to have good players re-signed, or kept around. Kadri, JVR, Reimer, people talking about Rielly already, people were all about Gardiner before. Some people just want to turn everything over all the time, like this is NHL 16.

 

[ACC1224]

****ing maddening. Cap Geek turned everyone into a GM, and now we're not allowed to keep nice things. Potential HOF'er? Oh... wait a tick, looks like he's an RFA. We better sell him off so we have the picks for this year's draft. Wouldn't want to miss out on a potential 1st liner....

Sometimes, it's okay to have good players re-signed, or kept around. Kadri, JVR, Reimer, people talking about Rielly already, people were all about Gardiner before. Some people just want to turn everything over all the time, like this is NHL 16.

You get all kinds, why worry about it.

Can't see any from your list being guys they would look to move, barring overpayment/no brainer type moves. The exception being Reimer, not sure how they view him.

 

[stewpac]

When a rebuild is on, fans want to get rid of everything so fast. There might be a time when trading Kadri and Jvr makes sense but we're about three or four years away from that.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

If the Leafs are planning to deal him, they might be better to do it now, rather than later. Remember, he has a NTC that kicks in this summer. Waiting to move him after that, would likely restrict the type of return we could get for him. I'd rather have the flexibility of being able to freely negotiate with all other teams, rather than ones selected by the player.

This is a reasonable point, but if we trade JVR, and the team becomes competitive more quickly than expected, we may be kicking ourselves for moving on too soon.

He will be expensive to sign as a UFA, but still probably not as expensive as trading for a winger of his caliber would be (in $ plus players and picks).

I'd rather wait it out and assess. He's the type of player that a lot of teams will want. If holding him slightly weakens our trading position, then so be it.

It will still allow us to make the best overall move for the future, which I think is more important.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is a reasonable point, but if we trade JVR, and the team becomes competitive more quickly than expected, we may be kicking ourselves for moving on too soon.

He will be expensive to sign as a UFA, but still probably not as expensive as trading for a winger of his caliber would be (in $ plus players and picks).

I'd rather wait it out and assess. He's the type of player that a lot of teams will want. If holding him slightly weakens our trading position, then so be it.

It will still allow us to make the best overall move for the future, which I think is more important.

That's fair. For me, a big reason to keep him around is that I think it's really important for our upcoming talent to have some talent to play with. Right now for forwards we have JVR and Kadri, then it's a huge drop off to Bozak and Komarov and then ... we're thin up front to say the least (not that we're not thin anywhere else).

 

[Hockey Talker29]

That's fair. For me, a big reason to keep him around is that I think it's really important for our upcoming talent to have some talent to play with. Right now for forwards we have JVR and Kadri, then it's a huge drop off to Bozak and Komarov and then ... we're thin up front to say the least (not that we're not thin anywhere else).

Agreed 100%. In his final year before UFA, we'll see what kind of terms he's looking for. If they're too aggressive, you trade him at the deadline for a pretty good haul.

My guess is about 70%-80% of the contenders will be looking to add a big, fast, winger with a cheap cap hit. There will be plenty of trade offers for him.

Bonus points if we trade him and re-sign him as a UFA in the summer.

 

[Jack Bauer]

When a rebuild is on, fans want to get rid of everything so fast. There might be a time when trading Kadri and Jvr makes sense but we're about three or four years away from that.

Kadri is close to being a UFA so the window to cash out on his current value is not necessarily 3-4 years. At that point he is likely a deadline rental like Ladd.

Think Winnipeg got more now then they would have 2 years ago?

JVR is signed beyond this year so thats a different situarion but if Kadris demands are not realistic for his next deal then seeing what he brings now is the next logical step.

You would think Kadri was 22 with this 3-4 year talk. And i am not even saying to trade him...but we would be stupid to not gauge his value on the market as a non rental top 9 forward for a contender.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Agreed 100%. In his final year before UFA, we'll see what kind of terms he's looking for. If they're too aggressive, you trade him at the deadline for a pretty good haul.

My guess is about 70%-80% of the contenders will be looking to add a big, fast, winger with a cheap cap hit. There will be plenty of trade offers for him.

Bonus points if we trade him and re-sign him as a UFA in the summer.

Trade deadline rentals dont usually bring huge hauls compared to deals for non rentals every other time of year.

So much of the decision comes down to contract demands and personalities that none of us know the details on.

 

[Pookie]

****ing maddening. Cap Geek turned everyone into a GM, and now we're not allowed to keep nice things. Potential HOF'er? Oh... wait a tick, looks like he's an RFA. We better sell him off so we have the picks for this year's draft. Wouldn't want to miss out on a potential 1st liner....

Sometimes, it's okay to have good players re-signed, or kept around. Kadri, JVR, Reimer, people talking about Rielly already, people were all about Gardiner before. Some people just want to turn everything over all the time, like this is NHL 16.

I missed the last time that the Leafs had a scrape this down to the wood type rebuild like this.

Most times, the fans have been asking for older free agents based on past glory. They were just a player or two away from the playoffs. Like these type of players away from the playoffs:

A Joseph (the 2nd time). A Finger. A Hagman. A Gerber. An Armstrong. A Lebda. A Peca. A Gill. A Kubina. A Marchment. A Nieuwendyk. A Klee. A Hoglund. A Mogilny. A Thomas (the 2nd time). A Corson.

Now, you've got fans pausing and saying ok, draft. Build with youth. Accept the losing. Take advantage and build a team that will be good years from now. Don't sign any more bad contracts.

And ironically, it sounds more like you are having trouble with the idea of losing and that there really isn't much on this roster that will be valuable in 4 years. Why hang on to something you won't need?

JVR had a season ending injury… he might not ever be the same JVR. But we are probably stuck for two years or so until he proves his health and a return to form.

Kadri… meh. I hear he will play the PK… next year. Because there is so much to play for right now the team just can't risk an on the job learning experience. But next year… oh boy… watch out.

If someone wants a good Top 12 forward … go ahead. He's going to moved sometime between now and 4 years. Might as well sell somewhat high.

 

[Suntouchable13]

****ing maddening. Cap Geek turned everyone into a GM, and now we're not allowed to keep nice things. Potential HOF'er? Oh... wait a tick, looks like he's an RFA. We better sell him off so we have the picks for this year's draft. Wouldn't want to miss out on a potential 1st liner....

Sometimes, it's okay to have good players re-signed, or kept around. Kadri, JVR, Reimer, people talking about Rielly already, people were all about Gardiner before. Some people just want to turn everything over all the time, like this is NHL 16.

I am weary of re-signing guys to big money deals before the team or them accomplished anything. Would I re-sign Rielly to a 4x4? Sure. But to a 6x8? Nope.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Trade deadline rentals dont usually bring huge hauls compared to deals for non rentals every other time of year.

So much of the decision comes down to contract demands and personalities that none of us know the details on.

You're definitely right. I prefer not to speculate on things that I have no evidence about one way or the other though.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

So we're just assuming that the team is going to be **** for the next 4-6 years, even if we sign Stammer, draft Matthews, Tavares magically comes home, or any number of possibilities.

People like to talk as though the money is coming out of their pocket. As if no player should ever be locked up to term and get paid here. Like, do we just do the same thing to Nylander and Marner when their contra ts come up? It's a never ending cycle for some.

Even if the Leafs did sign Stammer and got Matthews they are still a bad team the next couple years. Look at the additions made by Buffalo last summer- Kane, O'reilly and Eichel. They still suck and their supporting cast isn't much different from ours. If kadri and JVR are willing to sign for relatively cheap contracts with good term then you do it. But if they are asking for 7-8 years and 6-7 million then you deal them without thinking twice. I'd probably deal JVR regardless because he should get a great haul of picks/prospects and we are strong at wing already. If we over achieve then we can take a run at him in free agency if people really think we need him. Kadri is a lot more complicated because of his RFA status this summer and the possibility of him being pushed down the depth chart to the third line in a couple years if we get Matthews and keep Nylander at C.

IMO a Max Jones/Lawson Crouse type guy and a late 1st round pick will be far more valuable for this franchise going forward than keeping JVR and signing him to a 7 year 6.5 million dollar deal.

As for the never ending cycle point, the league has become a little bit like the CHL of late with the quick turnover between good and bad teams. Teams need to capitalize during the 4-8 window when their key players are on cheap contracts. With good management and some luck in the draft this window can be extended and eventually you need to recycle what you can and rebuild. Unfortunately the leafs first attempt at creating a window to compete since the salary cap was implemented was managed horribly by Burke and co. So we have had to restart. The never ending cycle you are referring to is not all that different from what Chicago has done following their cup wins, the only difference is they have had a core of elite young players to keep around through it all. I wouldn't put either of JVR and Kadri in that category. Hopefully Reilly, Nylander, Marner and the 2016 first can be those guys for us.