Confirmed with Link: [VAN/FLA] Canucks acquire Erik Gudbranson, 2016 5th ~ PT2

[Bonham]

Well that's a definite reach in logic, but at least you're consistent.

 

[quat]

I gave up around 2 minutes when I realized there weren't going to be any actual hockey plays in his "highlights".

He fights and seals the boards. Amazing.

Honestly, this was rather depressing.

 

[James Underbuss*]

Think you meant to put Tanev instead of Hammer.

Ya sometimes I'm not a details guy but you get what I'm saying.

Hammer Tryamkin
Sbisa#7


Even better

Ferland was a non factor against any competent defensive pairing. Tanev and Edler didn't need to "stand up" to Ferland, they just made him irrelevant by outplaying him.

Dude. Ferland was a non factor? Guy was a friggin tornado out there. Are we even talking about the same series? I don't know if he scored or not but he ran circles around our entire team, with impunity.

 

[Peen]

Ya sometimes I'm not a details guy






Dude. Ferland was a non factor? Guy was a friggin tornado out there. Are we even talking about the same series? I don't know if he scored or not but he ran circles around our entire team, with impunity.

clearly you're not a details guy when the poster you replied to talked about how Ferland was not productive against Edler and Tanev.

he manhandled the sbisa bieksa pairing.

 

[Hit the post]

he manhandled the sbisa bieksa pairing.

Actually THE most embarrassing thing in the Flames series was Hamhuis having to step-in when Dorsett was overmatched in his fight; where Pizza - ON THE ICE - was too busy exchanging cooking recipes with another Flames player.

 

[racerjoe]

Most people seem to think Sbisa is barely nhl worthy yet you seem to think he is on par with Gudbranson? To continue with your metaphor, our trucks suck. Sbisa, Bartkowski, Weber suck suck suck. We traded a Mazda Miata and a hotwheels and got a 3500 Diesel.

Edler Hammer
Hutton Gudbranson
Sbisa? Tryamkin

You're going to be changing your tune.

You point to the calgary series as a reason why Gudb does not fit?? Bieksa was the only one who tried to stand up to Ferlind. Do you remember this at all? That rat had a full go at every single player on the canucks every game. It was an embarrassment. Even more embarassing when he was then squashed like a bug in the Anaheim series. Doesn't that say something? Where is the corsi stat for when your team is *****slapped by a punk all series long? And that has been going on since 2011, it's nothing new.

We have Edler and Hutton for puck movers. If you don't like the price we paid for Gudb then what do you think it will be for Barrie or Subban? You don't think some other club like Edmonton isn't going to trump anything we can offer? Think about it. Gudb cost a small prospect who we had no room for and a 2nd rounder. Nobody is saying we can't add another piece.


People are talking about Gudb like he's some kind of pylon thug goon. Just because he is big mean and nasty doesn't mean he is an unskilled goon. You chicken littles always paint the narrative you want to hear.

I'm not losing this debate at all. Still laughing.

Most of this isn't even relevant to what I have said. I NEVER CLAIMED SBISA PEDAN OR TRYAMKIN were BETTER. Just that they all play the same style as Grud, and then I asked how many puckmovers we had which you couldn't or didn't answer.

Others just pointed out perfectly why energy guys shouldn't make that type of difference. The game isn't played that way, again who does Pits or SJ have like this?

Hutton and Edler clearly are not enough since are defence was one of the worst scoring defences in the league as was our team. Yes Berrie and Subban would cost more, and again sure would be nice to have extra parts to get them like I don't know Shink, or a 2nd, or a fifth all things we gave away this year outside of this trade.

How do we not have room for McCann? Granlund shouldn't bump him, I would also rather have him than Vey. So where is this center depth?

Again where are all the people that have called him a pylon? People have called him a 4-5 which he is.

Show me something tangible. Maybe then you would have an argument.

He is not in his prime. Florida fans readily admit he made some big strides this past season. He is still developing. You do not hit your prime when you are still developing. In 5 years he will still be in his prime. As I originally said. We do have pieces to build a team around. Just not enough of them yet but we have the 5th OA pick this years and likely another good one coming next year. Add in Boeser and Demko and we do indeed have some quality pieces.


Again you seem to be agreeing with me. Most pundits thought the Canucks did well. An even trade should be considered as doing well. Would you agree?


McGuire was having an absolute orgasm over Gudbranson. Infact he have been the most animated in his glee. Now that is typical of McGuire to gush over someone. But to say he didn't see it as a big win is insane. He was over the moon.


The price we paid for Gud is right in line for a 2nd pairing dman. This deal still has potential do be a bargain. Granted it can also be a substantial loss. Time will tell. Not worth all the pissing and moaning we have been seeing though. Imo.


HFBoard fan opinions mean little to me other than discussion and entertainment. Just because the majority says so does not make it fact. Outlandish claims are made everyday on these boards that are completely false. Again I chose the wait and see approach. Have not seen enough of Guds to say for sure and have seen enough of McCann to think the risk is worth it.

Again. It is not like we traded for a 28~32 year old dman that will be in the twilight of his productive career when we are ready to compete again. The idea of this being the wrong time is insane. It is never a bad time to upgrade a team.

People are starting to realize that for the large majority of players Games played is a bigger indicator of prime, the reason most people think its 27 is because defenders come into the league later. This didn't happen with Grud, he should be just entering his prime.

You said all major, called it a giant win. I word hardly describe even as a win, especially when they also said we over paid. Yes Mcguire gushed over him (such a rarity) he still thought we over paid. Soo... think about what that really means.

The price should matter right now, we are not in a spot to waste assets. We need to be at the stage of collecting them so we can spend them. We also paid more, we paid more than the cost of Garisson got, or Boychuck, we paid closer to what Hamilton got who has top pair potential. I won't mention what Edm paid but they also overpaid.

I brought HF up because you did, so if you think so little of it, why bring it up?

How long until the canucks are a good team again? I say 5 years at the earliest. he will be 29, and just starting the end of his career, and we will have paid a huge price to waste the most productive years. That is bad timing.

 

[James Underbuss*]

Here's some words from someone. Helps explain his corsi or whatever you want to call the numbers game you kids play. Welcome to Vancouver Erik.

There was little mystery involved in the 3rd overall pick at the 2010 NHL Draft. After the Tyler Seguin/Taylor Hall duo, the consensus was nearly unanimous that big defenseman Erik Gudbranson would go next. He was big and described like this at the time:

A large defenseman with good leadership skills. Has a great shot. Gives a good opening pass and works hard in all three zones. A good skater considering his size. Could improve his physicality.

Read full article at: http://www.litterboxcats.com/2016/5/27/11789054/erik-gudbranson-a-look-back-at-a-player-i-will-miss

 

[Saturated Fats]

Here's some words from someone. Helps explain his corsi or whatever you want to call the numbers game you kids play. Welcome to Vancouver Erik.

There was little mystery involved in the 3rd overall pick at the 2010 NHL Draft. After the Tyler Seguin/Taylor Hall duo, the consensus was nearly unanimous that big defenseman Erik Gudbranson would go next. He was big and described like this at the time:

A large defenseman with good leadership skills. Has a great shot. Gives a good opening pass and works hard in all three zones. A good skater considering his size. Could improve his physicality.

Read full article at: http://www.litterboxcats.com/2016/5/27/11789054/erik-gudbranson-a-look-back-at-a-player-i-will-miss

Wonderful post, thanks for this.

Advanced stats aside, he appears to be an extremely well-liked teammate, a guy with innate leadership abilities, and will bring an undeniable level of accountability and respect to the club. Teams will think more-than twice about rag-dolling the Twins or the younger players with a guy like Erik on the ice.

(queue the sarcastic 'moral victory' retorts)

 

[Lindgren]

This season, Gudbranson appeared to truly turn the corner, but he has never been liked, or perhaps understood, by the advanced statistics community.

I've read elsewhere the claim that Gudbranson improved his game this year (Gudbranson said it himself). Is there any evidence in the advanced stats to support the position?

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I've read elsewhere the claim that Gudbranson improved his game this year (Gudbranson said it himself). Is there any evidence in the advanced stats to support the position?

If people insist that advanced stats isn't the "end all be all" how much does it matter?

 

[Lindgren]

If people insist that advanced stats isn't the "end all be all" how much does it matter?

Hmmm ... doesn't seem like a serious response. I did mean the question seriously.

 

[y2kcanucks]

If people insist that advanced stats isn't the "end all be all" how much does it matter?

It matters quite a bit. Because Gudbranson still sucks in the aspects of the game that lead to wins.

 

[604]

Others just pointed out perfectly why energy guys shouldn't make that type of difference. The game isn't played that way, again who does Pits or SJ have like this?

There whole team?

I'm amazed by how hard the forecheck has been from PIT, they are like zombies who just never stop coming. They made Hedman look like crap. Every line, every shift, every puck was chased and led to contact.

It takes a few guys to start and eventually the whole team buys into putting out maximum effort every shift.

 

[The Drop]

It matters quite a bit. Because Gudbranson still sucks in the aspects of the game that lead to wins.

It will only matter to some if Benning acquires a guy who's underlying numbers are solid.

So essentially it'll never matter to some


Hurr durr money puck

 

[TruGr1t]

It matters quite a bit. Because Gudbranson still sucks in the aspects of the game that lead to wins.

Gudbranson doesn't "suck" at anything really. He's not elite or top-pairing obviously, but saying he "sucks" seems to indicate you think he's Bartkowski or something. You appear to have gotten overly emotional and lost the plot.

 

[lousy]

It will only matter to some if Benning acquires a guy who's underlying numbers are solid.

So essentially it'll never matter to some


Hurr durr money puck

Some posters and readers here have a balanced view of things, and I try to remind myself that when I have to slog through all the extreme negative and positive posts.

Advanced stats play their role, but it is hard to predict exactly how Gudbranson will perform with the canucks. Different teammates, coach and gameplan. I refuse to completely write him off based solely on stats, and will wait to see how he does. His role with the panthers was not insignificant either so hopefully he does well here.

 

[RandV]

I've read elsewhere the claim that Gudbranson improved his game this year (Gudbranson said it himself). Is there any evidence in the advanced stats to support the position?

I appreciate advanced stats just have never really gotten into them, but going by Florida coaching last season was the first where they trusted him with top 4 minutes. In his previous seasons it was always bottom pairing low minutes.

Now of course Florida was a good team last season, with a management team that is heavily into advanced stats. They're probably going by more than what the average fan has access too.

 

[The Stig]

It matters quite a bit. Because Gudbranson still sucks in the aspects of the game that lead to wins.

God why am I doing this to myself....

You need a guy that goes out there and plays the hard minutes in your zone. The guy hard back on the backcheck, killing penalties and being involved with defensive zone draws. Thats what Gudbranson does. Florida fans say he was by far their best penalty killer. His best work is done in the defensive zone.

Gudbranson doesn't "suck" at anything really. He's not elite or top-pairing obviously, but saying he "sucks" seems to indicate you think he's Bartkowski or something. You appear to have gotten overly emotional and lost the plot.

All of this.

 

[Pip]

Wow this could be groundbreaking. Have you let all the gms in the league know about this ePIPhany? Maybe we could even just put out 1 dman and 4 forwards?? Or maybe 5 forwards , one of them being defensively minded?? Ya that'll be super duper.






Well guessing is all you got when you don't know anything.

What are you even on about?

 

[Pip]

Gudbranson doesn't "suck" at anything really. He's not elite or top-pairing obviously, but saying he "sucks" seems to indicate you think he's Bartkowski or something. You appear to have gotten overly emotional and lost the plot.

He definitely sucks offensively

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I originally voted meh, I don't feel like 'Like it' and 'Meh' are on the same plane.

 

[TruGr1t]

He definitely sucks offensively

Heh, that's actually fair.

 

[Lindgren]

I appreciate advanced stats just have never really gotten into them, but going by Florida coaching last season was the first where they trusted him with top 4 minutes. In his previous seasons it was always bottom pairing low minutes.

Now of course Florida was a good team last season, with a management team that is heavily into advanced stats. They're probably going by more than what the average fan has access too.

That increased ice time does suggest that the coaches thought he improved, and Gudbranson himself thinks he improved. I'm still curious about what the advanced stats say about whether he got better last season. I don't have an agenda here. I'm curious. Am I getting no reply because the answer is obvious and people can't be bothered explaining it to me?

I'm old. I find the search for this kind of info somewhat confusing. Humour me.

 

[Oliewud]

Honestly, this was rather depressing.

well why dont u lazy little boys youtube the isles-panthers games. They have full games on there and ill tell u right now what ive seen from gudbranson is VERY encouraging. He looks good.

 

[Zarpan]

Gudbranson's advanced stats actually seem fine when taken in context. Probably 2nd pairing worthy.

Over the last three years he's played a decent amount with three defenseman with whom he's had neutral to favourable zone starts and has a 50+% CF in each case.

Those are Brian Campbell, Dylan Olsen and Jovo.

Campbell's pretty good, but he managed to get 50+% CF with an end of career Jovo and a fringe NHLer such as Olsen when his zone start usage is neutral to favourable. O-Zone percentage was 49% with Campbell and Olsen and 54% with Jovo, so it isn't even that favourable.

So his CF seems fine if he isn't sent out for defensive zone faceoffs an unbalanced amount of times.