Confirmed with Link: [VAN/FLA] Canucks acquire Erik Gudbranson, 2016 5th ~ PT2

[CanuckCity]

For me its not even so much that we traded mccann & 33, its that we did so for something that is not even a top priority. Ive got nothing against gudbranson but in no way does he address our primary needs.

Myers, Bogosian, Hamonic, all-in for Vatanen i could live with because at least they address a current + future need and have all shown the potential.

Heck even for a guy like Skinner (which seems like something benning would get swindled into) would help address a more pressing need (secondary scoring).

And to top it off we're gonna allocate a big chunk of cap to him.

Anyways, hoping gubranson can prove me wrong.

 

[Hit the post]

Looking at just picks
Hamilton cost 15, 45 and 52
Gudbranson cost 24, 33 and 93

15th is better than 24tha
45th is worse than 33rd
52nd is better than 93rd

Moving up 9 spots in the first round is more valuable than moving up 12 spots in the second round.
Hamilton cost significantly more than Gudbranson without factoring in we also got the 139th pick as well.

Looking at players
Kyle Connor (who was a general consensus BPA at 15 OA) is better Jarrod McCann

And the rest is the same as above as they are picks.

Either way you look at the trade the Canucks did NOT pay more than Calgary.

Hamilton put up 40+ points for the Flames (reached that point total with the Bruins as well the season before). Our "foundational center" hasn't hit 40 points (let alone exceed it) for a number of years now.

I should hope Hamilton cost more than Gudbranson (as everything else being equal - offense almost ALWAYS comes at a premium cost).

 

[coldsteel79]

I still vehemently oppose this poll thread. Changing the response options after people have voted so it looks like they voted for a different option than they originally did is garbage.

Omg who cares, tpm said she'll do another one next thread, pretty sure everybody and their dog know your opinion on anything Canuck related.

 

[CanaFan]

Looking at just picks
Hamilton cost 15, 45 and 52
Gudbranson cost 24, 33 and 93

15th is better than 24tha
45th is worse than 33rd
52nd is better than 93rd

Moving up 9 spots in the first round is more valuable than moving up 12 spots in the second round.
Hamilton cost significantly more than Gudbranson without factoring in we also got the 139th pick as well.

Looking at players
Kyle Connor (who was a general consensus BPA at 15 OA) is better Jarrod McCann

And the rest is the same as above as they are picks.

Either way you look at the trade the Canucks did NOT pay more than Calgary.

I think it comes down to if you truly rate McCann as a 24th (his draft spot) or if you rank his value as higher for having a strong D+1 in SSM as well as showing good signs in the NHL at 19. Though you could argue he also showed his physical immaturity, I'd take the view that he showed the high end skill and shot that - once he is 21 or 22 instead of 19 - will allow him to be a top 6 player in this league. That is higher value than a 24th pick and probably closer to the 15th (I would say even a bit higher).

 

[VanillaCoke]

Vatanen would have been a much better target for us that's true.

 

[The Stig]

I still vehemently oppose this poll thread. Changing the response options after people have voted so it looks like they voted for a different option than they originally did is garbage.

 

[CanuckCity]

If we weren't locked into one of Tkachuk or PLD we couldn't make this move...but we are, and either of them is easily a better prospect than McCann. It's really not hard to see the rationale behind this one...as much as Trev and Benning have butchered other trades - this one completely makes sense.

Except it still doesnt make sense.. Only 1 of those 2 guys can play center & even he isnt even guaranteed to stick there! At the moment we're down to 1 player with top6 C potential. At best we get PLD and now we have 2. Great, but that's also banking on both of them hitting their potential.

If we get tkatchuk we have 1 center with top6 potential & 2 wingers with Top-line potential.

Not to mention the loss of another potential B level D/F prospect from #33.

And we didnt even fill our main hole on D now or for the future.

 

[CanaFan]

For me its not even so much that we traded mccann & 33, its that we did so for something that is not even a top priority. Ive got nothing against gudbranson but in no way does he address our primary needs.

Myers, Bogosian, Hamonic, all-in for Vatanen i could live with because at least they address a current + future need and have all shown the potential.

Heck even for a guy like Skinner (which seems like something benning would get swindled into) would help address a more pressing need (secondary scoring).

And to top it off we're gonna allocate a big chunk of cap to him.

Anyways, hoping gubranson can prove me wrong.

Agreed. Also troubling for me is the direction of pretty much every trade Benning has made so far.

Players with top 6 F / top 3 D upside seem to be traded regularly for guys with more surety but who's track record and skill set projects them to be bottom 6 F / bottom 3 D players.

Yes we're are getting "surer things" but we are giving away our chances to get a high end player for more and more low end players.

Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust, Pedan, Clendenning, Sutter, Granlund, Gudbranson all are or project to be bottom 6 players.

Only Baertschi and maybe Vey (in theory) were attempts to acquire players who could possibly be considered top 6 scorers or top 3 puck moving defensemen.


For a team that is rebuilding, it is surprising and concerning that 80% of our moves seem to be focussed on building up our bottom half roster at the expense of our future top half roster.

 

[racerjoe]

Look, we need both types. Cars and trucks if you will. A guy like Gudb is going to be a net positive on offensive production even if he only puts up 15 points throughout the year.

His presence alone will firstly deter net crashers which has been a major problem for years.

Secondly, him being on the ice will allow his defensive partner to open it up and jump into the play.Hutton is going to benefit dramatically from Gudbranson and it is going to be awesome to watch.

Thirdly, Gudbranson adds 10 pounds onto every other player on the ice for the Canucks. Oh, you want to cheapshot the Sedins and intimidate them? Worked every other year but this year? Not so much.


How much is Barrie or Subban going to costLOL Let's get real here. Actually, no, carry on. It is sunday and I am bored and need the chuckles. Tell me more about these #1 dmen that are available every year and then tell me they can be had for a pick and prospect lol. And then tell me We can sign them for 5 or 6 million AHAHAHAHAHASHAHAHAHAH

We need both types of cars but already have all these trucks and no sports cars so we went out and got another truck... Do you not understand the metaphor? Should I use a different one?

As others pointed out, how much did other net clearers help? Hell in the Calgary series Sbisa was run scared, and Dorsett had to be helped out by hamhuis. what scares teams is a good PP.

How many puck moving dmen do we have? How many do the top teams in the league have?

Your third point isn't true, again look at the Calgary series, look at the teams in the finals, where is there big guys? Maybe this was true in the past but we really aren't there now are we?

Well if we hadn't wasted some other prospects like Forsling, or Shink, had gotten some assets for Hamhuis and Vrbrata maybe we could afford one of them. Or again one of the dmen Ana is going to move.

You realize you are losing this debate right? I don't get why you are laughing, you haven't pointed to a single tangible thing.

Would you guys do:

To EDM - Gudbranson
To VAN - Yakupov + 2017 1st
?

Yes.

settinguptheplay - it is hard to reply with how you quoted me, I will come back and reply a bit later in the day when I have more time.

 

[Canucker]

The annals of history must correctly show what side of the Gudbranson trade people were on. Otherwise how will we make fun of each other?

 

[ahmon]

For me its not even so much that we traded mccann & 33, its that we did so for something that is not even a top priority. Ive got nothing against gudbranson but in no way does he address our primary needs.

Myers, Bogosian, Hamonic, all-in for Vatanen i could live with because at least they address a current + future need and have all shown the potential.

Heck even for a guy like Skinner (which seems like something benning would get swindled into) would help address a more pressing need (secondary scoring).

And to top it off we're gonna allocate a big chunk of cap to him.

Anyways, hoping gubranson can prove me wrong.

All 4 of those D are quite different. (eg Hamonic is a top pairing shutdown D, Vatanen is an undersized offensive dman who runs your PP)

The fact you will be more "ok" with them shows you feel the canucks have many "needs".

To be honest I'm not sure Bogosian is ahead of Gudbranson.

From what I've seen of them, Gudbranson is superior defensively.

Bogosian might be more naturally talent offensively ie skating, rushing the puck etc.

But he makes some pretty obvious mistakes - on the other hand Gudbranson seemed to have taken a large step forward last year with those.

 

[Canucks LB]

 

[CanaFan]

I gave up around 2 minutes when I realized there weren't going to be any actual hockey plays in his "highlights".

He fights and seals the boards. Amazing.

 

[VanillaCoke]

That's one of the least impressive highlight videos I've ever seen.

 

[Siludin]

I am pretty happy this poll went the way it did. The knowledgeable fans know this is a decent trade, and the echo chamber will scream murder after anything now. I still question the Shinkaruk deal but this one was a much better move.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Looking at just picks
Hamilton cost 15, 45 and 52
Gudbranson cost 24, 33 and 93

15th is better than 24tha
45th is worse than 33rd
52nd is better than 93rd

Moving up 9 spots in the first round is more valuable than moving up 12 spots in the second round.
Hamilton cost significantly more than Gudbranson without factoring in we also got the 139th pick as well.

Looking at players
Kyle Connor (who was a general consensus BPA at 15 OA) is better Jarrod McCann

And the rest is the same as above as they are picks.

Either way you look at the trade the Canucks did NOT pay more than Calgary.

McCann may or may not be worth more than the 15th overall pick in this year's draft. Tough to say really based on who's there. You can't just say he's the equivalent of a 24th overall pick since his value has changed since then.

Furthermore, you can't even mention Connor being better than McCann because nobody knew Connor would even be there at 15. And clearly Boston didn't even like him so it's a pointless argument to make.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I am pretty happy this poll went the way it did. The knowledgeable fans know this is a decent trade, and the echo chamber will scream murder after anything now. I still question the Shinkaruk deal but this one was a much better move.

Yup poll shows their is a strong silent majority out there. The shrieks from the fringe shouldn't be addressed by management at this point.

 

[CanaFan]

McCann may or may not be worth more than the 15th overall pick in this year's draft. Tough to say really based on who's there. You can't just say he's the equivalent of a 24th overall pick since his value has changed since then.

Furthermore, you can't even mention Connor being better than McCann because nobody knew Connor would even be there at 15. And clearly Boston didn't even like him so it's a pointless argument to make.

Or look at it this way, does anything think Connor is worth the 17th pick in this year's draft? Or has his value changed based on his d+1 and d+2 season?

McCann is definitely worth more than his original 24th draft position given he was drafted as a sub-PPG guy who blossomed in his d+1 year then showed flashes of elite skill despite being physically overmatched in the NHL.

 

[Grazzy]

I am pretty happy this poll went the way it did. The knowledgeable fans know this is a decent trade, and the echo chamber will scream murder after anything now. I still question the Shinkaruk deal but this one was a much better move.

I'd agree. I dont think Gudbranson is the type of defender the team really needs, but there's no debate that he's a big improvememt on what the team has. The real question is if Gud is closer to Tanev than Sbisa or vice versa. I dont think the stats lean strongly one way or another and that's why it's a scary trade given Benning's pro-scouting record. So, reserving opinion until at least December lol.

 

[Bonham]

Yup poll shows their is a strong silent majority out there. The shrieks from the fringe shouldn't be addressed by management at this point.

How do you figure?

52% is greater than 38%...

 

[James Underbuss*]

We need both types of cars but already have all these trucks and no sports cars so we went out and got another truck... Do you not understand the metaphor? Should I use a different one?

As others pointed out, how much did other net clearers help? Hell in the Calgary series Sbisa was run scared, and Dorsett had to be helped out by hamhuis. what scares teams is a good PP.

How many puck moving dmen do we have? How many do the top teams in the league have?

Your third point isn't true, again look at the Calgary series, look at the teams in the finals, where is there big guys? Maybe this was true in the past but we really aren't there now are we?

Well if we hadn't wasted some other prospects like Forsling, or Shink, had gotten some assets for Hamhuis and Vrbrata maybe we could afford one of them. Or again one of the dmen Ana is going to move.

You realize you are losing this debate right? I don't get why you are laughing, you haven't pointed to a single tangible thing.

Most people seem to think Sbisa is barely nhl worthy yet you seem to think he is on par with Gudbranson? To continue with your metaphor, our trucks suck. Sbisa, Bartkowski, Weber suck suck suck. We traded a Mazda Miata and a hotwheels and got a 3500 Diesel.

Edler Hammer
Hutton Gudbranson
Sbisa? Tryamkin

You're going to be changing your tune.

You point to the calgary series as a reason why Gudb does not fit?? Bieksa was the only one who tried to stand up to Ferlind. Do you remember this at all? That rat had a full go at every single player on the canucks every game. It was an embarrassment. Even more embarassing when he was then squashed like a bug in the Anaheim series. Doesn't that say something? Where is the corsi stat for when your team is *****slapped by a punk all series long? And that has been going on since 2011, it's nothing new.

We have Edler and Hutton for puck movers. If you don't like the price we paid for Gudb then what do you think it will be for Barrie or Subban? You don't think some other club like Edmonton isn't going to trump anything we can offer? Think about it. Gudb cost a small prospect who we had no room for and a 2nd rounder. Nobody is saying we can't add another piece.


People are talking about Gudb like he's some kind of pylon thug goon. Just because he is big mean and nasty doesn't mean he is an unskilled goon. You chicken littles always paint the narrative you want to hear.

I'm not losing this debate at all. Still laughing.

 

[opendoor]

How do you figure?

52% is greater than 38%...

And most of that 38% acknowledge that Benning overpaid.

 

[Hit the post]

Most people seem to think Sbisa is barely nhl worthy yet you seem to think he is on par with Gudbranson? To continue with your metaphor, our trucks suck. Sbisa, Bartkowski, Weber suck suck suck. We traded a Mazda Miata and a hotwheels and got a 3500 Diesel.

Edler Hammer
Hutton Gudbranson
Sbisa? Tryamkin

You're going to be changing your tune.

Think you meant to put Tanev instead of Hammer.

 

[opendoor]

Most people seem to think Sbisa is barely nhl worthy yet you seem to think he is on par with Gudbranson? To continue with your metaphor, our trucks suck. Sbisa, Bartkowski, Weber suck suck suck. We traded a Mazda Miata and a hotwheels and got a 3500 Diesel.

Edler Hammer
Hutton Gudbranson
Sbisa? Tryamkin

You're going to be changing your tune.

You point to the calgary series as a reason why Gudb does not fit?? Bieksa was the only one who tried to stand up to Ferlind. Do you remember this at all? That rat had a full go at every single player on the canucks every game. It was an embarrassment. Even more embarassing when he was then squashed like a bug in the Anaheim series. Doesn't that say something? Where is the corsi stat for when your team is *****slapped by a punk all series long? And that has been going on since 2011, it's nothing new.

We have Edler and Hutton for puck movers. If you don't like the price we paid for Gudb then what do you think it will be for Barrie or Subban? You don't think some other club like Edmonton isn't going to trump anything we can offer? Think about it. Gudb cost a small prospect who we had no room for and a 2nd rounder. Nobody is saying we can't add another piece.


People are talking about Gudb like he's some kind of pylon thug goon. Just because he is big mean and nasty doesn't mean he is an unskilled goon. You chicken littles always paint the narrative you want to hear.

I'm not losing this debate at all. Still laughing.

Ferland was a non factor against any competent defensive pairing. Tanev and Edler didn't need to "stand up" to Ferland, they just made him irrelevant by outplaying him.

 

[Hit the post]

Ferland was a non factor against any competent defensive pairing. Tanev and Edler didn't need to "stand up" to Ferland, they just made him irrelevant by outplaying him.

Willie's lack of line matching made our team irrelevant in that playoff series.