Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CBJ] Canucks acquire F Tyler Motte, Jussi Jokinen for F Thomas Vanek

[Hit the post]

Honestly, there might legitimately have been next to no market for Vanek.

He posted 48 points in 68 games last season and the best he could do in FA was a 1 year 2 million contract signed in August. For some reason or another, there is serious aversion to Thomas Vanek from nearly all the GMs in this league. Part of it may be his play during the playoffs with Montreal, as I've heard several times now that really tanked his reputation in the league.

Sure seems like it; course not all trade deadline acquisitions that end up looking pretty blech don't result in that player getting only a small one year contract (depends on how well his "rep" is). Take a look at the contract one goalie got after a subpar post-season with the blues.

 

[F A N]

Where in there is the acknowledgement that "11 points in 17 games isn't great production"?

What are the parameters set out by the OP?

Why is he talking about goals, instead of .... "production"?

Lol. So goals doesn't factor into "production?" Man...

 

[F A N]

Yes. Of course I'm looking at the entire picture and not simply one small piece as you are doing.

Do you think his AHL scoring is "impressive"?

9 goals in 17 games is a small sample but I would consider that good numbers.

Well he was responding to my post and my post specified production, not goals. So ya, he was being inaccurate or at least framing his response differently than my critique without acknowledging he was shifting the goal posts.

So goals don't count as production? This is like the Boeser vs Barzal argument for Calder. I am in the camp that Boeser can win the Calder by virtue of his goalscoring even if he ends up putting up say 10 less points than Barzal (not saying he will win the Calder at this point).

 

[Bleach Clean]

Lol. So goals doesn't factor into "production?" Man...

Factor in production =/= production. Do you understand?

 

[CanaFan]

9 goals in 17 games is a small sample but I would consider that good numbers.



So goals don't count as production? This is like the Boeser vs Barzal argument for Calder. I am in the camp that Boeser can win the Calder by virtue of his goalscoring even if he ends up putting up say 10 less points than Barzal (not saying he will win the Calder at this point).

“So goals don’t count as production?”

Ya, cause that’s *exactly* what I said.

I’m gonna stop wasting time with people who can’t debate honestly.

 

[Verviticus]

Lol. So goals doesn't factor into "production?" Man...

you are so disingenuous it gives me heartburn

 

[CanaFan]

Look at Henrik Sedin’s terrible production!! Only 2 goals. He clearly has no offensive ability whatsoever.

 

[Verviticus]

its even worse because he knew the outcome of this entire conversation before he made that post and i can only assume he wanted to intentionally derail it for a while

 

[F A N]

“So goals don’t count as production?”

Ya, cause that’s *exactly* what I said.

I’m gonna stop wasting time with people who can’t debate honestly.

So goals does count as production then?

Look at Henrik Sedin’s terrible production!! Only 2 goals. He clearly has no offensive ability whatsoever.

Do assists not count as production?

Not sure what your problem is CanaFan. You talk about "production" as if it's some singular thing. As far as I am considered, goals and assists significantly factor into a player's "production."

 

[Melvin]

The only time anyone switches from points to goals to define "production" is when they are talking about a player with no assists whom they are trying to prop up.

It is transparently motivated and exceptionally weak. You can do better. Just drop this line of reasoning and move onto something else.

 

[Melvin]

its even worse because he knew the outcome of this entire conversation before he made that post and i can only assume he wanted to intentionally derail it for a while

This form of fake argument where one attempts to distract with pointless hyperspecificity is annoying and happens a lot lately.

Taking the smallest detail and pulling it out of the overall argument to incite an idiotic debate about minutae while acting disingenuously about the actual points being made.

 

[CanaFan]

So goals does count as production then?



Do assists not count as production?

Not sure what your problem is CanaFan. You talk about "production" as if it's some singular thing. As far as I am considered, goals and assists significantly factor into a player's "production."

See, there’s this thing called “points” that lets you talk about the totality of a player’s production. You’re welcome to try it.

Like this. Motte has 32 points in 65 career AHL games. He has 11 in 17 games this year. Both are lackluster for a player his age.

You don’t need to focus on one piece of that production or a small segment of games just to create a weak counter argument.

It’s ALL production.

 

[Melvin]

Motte is a marginal player like Etem or Vey who is as likely as not to be on the team next season. Getting him and Jokinen for Vanek was close enough to be virtually indistinguishable from getting nothing at all.

End thread.

 

[MS]

This form of fake argument where one attempts to distract with pointless hyperspecificity is annoying and happens a lot lately.

Taking the smallest detail and pulling it out of the overall argument to incite an idiotic debate about minutae while acting disingenuously about the actual points being made.

Yup. Drag the argument sideways far enough on one small topic, and then pick on the fringes of that to try and get a 'win' that has really nothing to do with anything while completely ignoring the incredibly obvious bigger picture.

Last year's big thing was the minutiae of Granlund. When he predictably turned back into a pumpkin, now it's the minutiae of draft pick value or moving goalposts on Vanek or quibbling about who Gillis should have drafted 8 years ago. It's f***ing idiotic.

 

[manroth19]

This thread is getting ridiculous lol. Vaneks got zero value, some of us knew that before, the rest of us know this now. I give it another 2 weeks before vaneks a healthy scratch same with motte.

If motte becomes a 4th liner going forward then that’s great, if not well at least vanek ain’t here scoring useless goals and ruining the tank.

 

[Melvin]

This thread is getting ridiculous lol. Vaneks got zero value, some of us knew that before, the rest of us know this now. I give it another 2 weeks before vaneks a healthy scratch same with motte.

If motte becomes a 4th liner going forward then that’s great, if not well at least vanek ain’t here scoring useless goals and ruining the tank.

If he is replacement level as you suggest then having him here would help the tank regardless of his goals. That is how hockey works.

It makes no sense to say that he is worthless and that done how having him here would ruin the tank

 

[Cupless44]

Jokinen playing with Sedins. Goldobin sitting.

Seriously Green???

 

[manroth19]

If he is replacement level as you suggest then having him here would help the tank regardless of his goals. That is how hockey works.

It makes no sense to say that he is worthless and that done how having him here would ruin the tank

Sure it does. He’s a top 6 scoring winger on our team but on a playoff team like Columbus when healthy he doesn’t fit.

If vanek were hear he’s an improvement over the likes of goldy, leipsic, and now jokinen. Where as in Columbus is he an improvement over Anderson, Atkinson, or folingo? No chance. Is he a better checker then anyone on their bottom six?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Motte is a marginal player like Etem or Vey who is as likely as not to be on the team next season. Getting him and Jokinen for Vanek was close enough to be virtually indistinguishable from getting nothing at all.

End thread.

This.

All those people who said "what's the problem with signing Vanek? That's like signing a free draft pick" back in September were wrong. Plain and simple.

 

[Foundational Player]

Jokinen playing with Sedins. Goldobin sitting.

Seriously Green???

The Sedin's clearly need more mentorship on there line as Goldobin has yet to play 300 games.

More mentors!!! More mentors for all!!

 

[Cupless44]

The Sedin's clearly need more mentorship on there line as Goldobin has yet to play 300 games.

More mentors!!! More mentors for all!!

Green and his sending a message to young players is a bit out of control. There are 17 games left to audition young players, not play over the hill veterans. Jokinen is done. This is his 4th team this year and he was on waivers for assignment to the AHL. He was a cap dump the Canucks had to take in the trade. He should never see the ice.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Even if Motte and Jokinen was a terrible return (still don't know what we have in Motte yet) isn't it a good deal anyways just in the fact we lose Vanek's offence during this stretch of Tank?

 

[Cupless44]

Even if Motte and Jokinen was a terrible return (still don't know what we have in Motte yet) isn't it a good deal anyways just in the fact we lose Vanek's offence during this stretch of Tank?

There is that. Looking at the starting lineup now, you don't see a lot of wins. Now is time for Daniel to cease and desist. If the Sedins go cold further plummeting is possible.

 

[CanaFan]

Even if Motte and Jokinen was a terrible return (still don't know what we have in Motte yet) isn't it a good deal anyways just in the fact we lose Vanek's offence during this stretch of Tank?

Wouldn’t it have been a better deal to have never signed Vanek in the first place then?

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Wouldn’t it have been a better deal to have never signed Vanek in the first place then?

Then we wouldn't have Motte? And even though we signed him we still blew hard all season so...