Confirmed with Link: [VAN/BUF] Canucks acquire F Josh Bloom for D Riley Stillman

[F A N]

I don't treat them as single trade. They are 2 seperate trades.

The Dickenson trade is still awful. We wasted a 2nd and traded for one of the worst Dmen you could imagine.

However, this trade good, even if it turns out to be a nothing burger. We traded away one of the worst Dmen you could imagine without major penalty, even got an intriguing prospect. They could have waived him without major penalty too, given the trade it sounds like he would have been claimed.

Ya I agree. Stillman was definitely a cap dump at the time.

Trading Stillman for Bloom is good trade just to get rid of Stillman's contract. I wonder what the Sabres are thinking here. Maybe they were expecting Bloom to dominate after a 30 goal season and he didn't?

 

[The Stig]

Stocking the cupboard with some projects is never a bad idea. Especially one you get for Stillman. Could he become something? Anything is possible. But even if he's an Abbotsford guy with potential for call-ups when needed, this is a great trade.

 

[arttk]

Which employer doesn't if they can?

Probably only Patagonia and Costco

 

[tyhee]

Getting Kravstov for peanuts is not a W?

Getting the most premium asset (TBD) at the deadline for Horvat is not a W?

Getting Bear for essentially free is not a W?

If you're blatantly hating just say so.

Kravtsov is a reclamation project who was on the way to playing himself out of the league. Raty's performance since he was drafted has been a disappointment.

Declaring these guys wins after Kravtsov has spent less than 9 minutes in a Canucks' jersey with an almost clear statline, Raty has made a terrible start in Abbotsford and has since played less than 7 minutes per game in 3 Canuck games while Bloom is still in junior and in his D + 2 season 4th on his team (not the league, his team) in scoring is at best premature.

They might turn out to be wins and might turn out to be great trades, but calling them that at this time is unrealistic.

 

[tyhee]

You just said those last 3 deals aren't remotely W's right now (Bear, Horvat, Kravstov).

But you just said Bear is a obviously a significant win right now? I'm confused.

This deal doesn't hinge on whether Bloom is worth the ELC. This deal is about clearing Stillman's salary and getting a prospect out of it. The process is a W. If he pans out, that's just a bonus. If he doesn't, it's not a big deal at all. The deal is a W no matter what angles you look at it.


Signing our 99 point forward to an extension is a mistake? Don't let Canucks Media fool you.

I'll agree to disagree

You mentioned four trades, to quote from your post, "(Bear, Horvat, Kravstov, Stillman.)"

@MS disagreed on the last three, which did not include Bear.

 

[m9]

The best thing about this extremely minor trade is that management realized a mistake and corrected it rather than doubling down on their incompetence.

I don't think this was it.

There's been a long discussion here dating back awhile about whether or not management took Stillman back in the trade because they wanted him (ie, as a target) or whether he was forced on them to complete the deal with Chicago. I was more in the neutral category that they needed a defenseman and they probably just preferred him to guys on waivers.

On the radio last night though, Sat mentioned at the time of the Dickinson/Stillman trade he was told the Canucks viewed Stillman as a guy that was an asset. They felt that if they needed to move on from him at a later point he would have positive value. Sat himself said he disagreed with their assessment.

But hey, management was proven right on this one. I don't know if you can go as far as to say they specifically targeted Stillman or anything like that, but they certainly didn't take him back as a cap dump. They got some use out of the player for a few months and then re-couped an asset for him in the end. So, good on them.

After reading a bit more about Bloom, I really like this trade. The Kravtsov trade will get more of the headlines since he's a top ten pick, but this is actually the better deal out of the two IMO. It's the 2nd best trade this management group here has made, behind only the Hamonic one.

 

[Canucks LB]

I just woke up and I had this crazy dream that we somehow traded good guy, Bad D Stillman yesterday.

 

[Josepho]

I think the encouraging thing is that one of these two statements is true.

A) Stillman wasn't really a pro-scouting target.
B) They realized they f***ed up and dumped him instead of doubling down with unjustified opportunities or whatever.

I'm inclined to believe A because basically every other acquisition they've made seems to have a way better analytic profile.

 

[m9]

I think the encouraging thing is that one of these two statements is true.

A) Stillman wasn't really a pro-scouting target.
B) They realized they f***ed up and dumped him instead of doubling down with unjustified opportunities or whatever.

I'm inclined to believe A because basically every other acquisition they've made seems to have a way better analytic profile.

I mean, it's not really either of these. They needed a LHD due to injuries and grabbed a guy they thought they could eventually flip for a profit if needed.

It's also important that their expectations when acquiring Stillman were that they were a playoff team and they were adding a depth piece. I don't think they planned to be completely awful this year. They likely don't move on from the player if they are in a playoff race.

 

[Josepho]

I mean, it's not really either of these. They needed a LHD due to injuries and grabbed a guy they thought they could eventually flip for a profit if needed.

It's also important that their expectations when acquiring Stillman were that they were a playoff team and they were adding a depth piece. I don't think they planned to be completely awful this year. They likely don't move on from the player if they are in a playoff race.

I mean, I think acquiring someone to be a generic depth guy isn't too much of a pro-scouting move. I just saw multiple people on Twitter or here or whatever say stuff along the lines of "I can't believe we gave up a 2nd for this guy" when that pretty clearly wasn't the point of the trade.

 

[m9]

I mean, I think acquiring someone to be a generic depth guy isn't too much of a pro-scouting move. I just saw multiple people on Twitter or here or whatever say stuff along the lines of "I can't believe we gave up a 2nd for this guy" when that pretty clearly wasn't the point of the trade.

There have definitely been some poor interpretations of the trade, that's for sure.

 

[MS]

I don't think this was it.

There's been a long discussion here dating back awhile about whether or not management took Stillman back in the trade because they wanted him (ie, as a target) or whether he was forced on them to complete the deal with Chicago. I was more in the neutral category that they needed a defenseman and they probably just preferred him to guys on waivers.

On the radio last night though, Sat mentioned at the time of the Dickinson/Stillman trade he was told the Canucks viewed Stillman as a guy that was an asset. They felt that if they needed to move on from him at a later point he would have positive value. Sat himself said he disagreed with their assessment.

But hey, management was proven right on this one. I don't know if you can go as far as to say they specifically targeted Stillman or anything like that, but they certainly didn't take him back as a cap dump. They got some use out of the player for a few months and then re-couped an asset for him in the end. So, good on them.

After reading a bit more about Bloom, I really like this trade. The Kravtsov trade will get more of the headlines since he's a top ten pick, but this is actually the better deal out of the two IMO. It's the 2nd best trade this management group here has made, behind only the Hamonic one.

Yeah, it speaks well that they had both patience and understanding of asset value to manage to dump Dickinson to a pretty good result in the end.

If you value Bloom at a 4th (I dunno, seems reasonable?) then they dumped 2 years of Dickinson essentially for the difference between a 2nd and a 4th which is damned good value in the Dumping Cap World bigger picture.

 

[m9]

Yeah, it speaks well that they had both patience and understanding of asset value to manage to dump Dickinson to a pretty good result in the end.

If you value Bloom at a 4th (I dunno, seems reasonable?) then they dumped 2 years of Dickinson essentially for the difference between a 2nd and a 4th which is damned good value in the Dumping Cap World bigger picture.

I think the straight-up value of the trade was always okay, it's just the circumstances/timing/need/planning that was the questionable part.

I also think people figured a 2024 2nd would be more "mid" at the time of the trade and there's a decent chance now it ends up a top40 pick. So, this deal probably mitigates that shift as it probably would cost a 4th to move up 10 spots in the 2nd round.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Kravtsov is a reclamation project who was on the way to playing himself out of the league. Raty's performance since he was drafted has been a disappointment.

Declaring these guys wins after Kravtsov has spent less than 9 minutes in a Canucks' jersey with an almost clear statline, Raty has made a terrible start in Abbotsford and has since played less than 7 minutes per game in 3 Canuck games while Bloom is still in junior and in his D + 2 season 4th on his team (not the league, his team) in scoring is at best premature.

They might turn out to be wins and might turn out to be great trades, but calling them that at this time is unrealistic.

You’re looking at this entirely wrong.

It’s the process that matters in the long-run. Not necessarily the results because if the process is good, the results will eventually follow.

Getting a reclamation project that was highly touted for free is good process. Whether or not they pan out… it doesn’t even matter. Targeting these cheap reclamation projects without giving up much is a huge Win. Sometimes you win (Bear) and sometimes you lose (Studnicka) but you’ll get surplus value more often than not.

If you can’t understand why that’s a massive win.

Just look at 2nd for Linden Vey.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Kravtsov is a reclamation project who was on the way to playing himself out of the league. Raty's performance since he was drafted has been a disappointment.

Declaring these guys wins after Kravtsov has spent less than 9 minutes in a Canucks' jersey with an almost clear statline, Raty has made a terrible start in Abbotsford and has since played less than 7 minutes per game in 3 Canuck games while Bloom is still in junior and in his D + 2 season 4th on his team (not the league, his team) in scoring is at best premature.

They might turn out to be wins and might turn out to be great trades, but calling them that at this time is unrealistic.

false. when trading with futures, you're trading for odds of success.

even if the odds don't pan out, it can still be a good trade.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think the straight-up value of the trade was always okay, it's just the circumstances/timing/need/planning that was the questionable part.

I also think people figured a 2024 2nd would be more "mid" at the time of the trade and there's a decent chance now it ends up a top40 pick. So, this deal probably mitigates that shift as it probably would cost a 4th to move up 10 spots in the 2nd round.

Happy to move on from Stillman. Get a F who is most likely to make the nhl as a bottom 6 guy who can PK. Gives colliton someone to work with who hasn’t been touched up by Cull. No clue how colliton has done with Klim, Woo, And the others who had to work under Cull.

They added Young to help with the development of prospects with his track record with WBS and the Pitt organization. Hopefully that helps with ncaa free agents. Pitt isn’t home to the kids they sign like Boston/NY/MN/Detroit. But they have a track record of player development so fully understand kids trusting the ones franchise more than the Canucks over the years.

 

[MS]

false. when trading with futures, you're trading for odds of success.

even if the odds don't pan out, it can still be a good trade.

I think there's a distinction to me made between a 'good/reasonable move' and a 'win'.

I think the Kravtsov trade is probably a decent move. It cost almost nothing, it's worth a shot to see if a change of scenery helps this formerly highly-touted player.

But people are jumping to calling a it a 'win' and it isn't a win, at least not yet. A win implies that you've done something that's materially improved the fortunes of the team or the asset base of the team. And in this case, even if this was a 'good move' there's probably a 95% chance that this move ends up being totally irrelevant and none of the assets moved ever amount to anything for either team. Kellan Lain for Will Acton. IF Kravtsov actually shows something and is worth re-signing for next season, THEN you can start saying that this was a win.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I think there's a distinction to me made between a 'good/reasonable move' and a 'win'.

I think the Kravtsov trade is probably a decent move. It cost almost nothing, it's worth a shot to see if a change of scenery helps this formerly highly-touted player.

But people are jumping to calling a it a 'win' and it isn't a win, at least not yet. A win implies that you've done something that's materially improved the fortunes of the team or the asset base of the team. And in this case, even if this was a 'good move' there's probably a 95% chance that this move ends up being totally irrelevant and none of the assets moved ever amount to anything for either team. Kellan Lain for Will Acton. IF Kravtsov actually shows something and is worth re-signing for next season, THEN you can start saying that this was a win.

People are just so used to Benning that pretty much everything seems like a win. It’s like praising a pilot for not crashing the plane during the landing. It should just be expected as part of the job and not something extraordinary. Kravstov had almost no trade value because of waiver status, and a player that NYR had no plans for.

 

[strattonius]

People are just so used to Benning that pretty much everything seems like a win. It’s like praising a pilot for not crashing the plane during the landing. It should just be expected as part of the job and not something extraordinary. Kravstov had almost no trade value because of waiver status, and a player that NYR had no plans for.

So our fanbase is excited that management is making moves that finally show a semblance of competency?

Of course we are going to be excited. We have literally been deprived of this for 8 years. Let our fans celebrate these small wins.

 

[RebuildinVan]

So our fanbase is excited that management is making moves that finally show a semblance of competency?

Of course we are going to be excited. We have literally been deprived of this for 8 years. Let our fans celebrate these small wins.

Yes of course cuz we all know Benning would have extended Stillman for 4 years

 

[JohnHodgson]

So our fanbase is excited that management is making moves that finally show a semblance of competency?

Of course we are going to be excited. We have literally been deprived of this for 8 years. Let our fans celebrate these small wins.

Yup.

It's really pathetic how people are gatekeeping so hard here.

Management is finally showing competency with these wins (even if they're small... small wins add up).

Let us celebrate the fact that we have people that know what they're doing.

 

[strattonius]

Yes of course cuz we all know Benning would have extended Stillman for 4 years

If we're hypothesizing Benning wouldn't have acquired Stillman. He had no understanding of CAP management. We would still have Dickinson for a couple more years

 

[strattonius]

Yup.

It's really pathetic how people are gatekeeping so hard here.

Management is finally showing competency with these wins (even if they're small... small wins add up).

Let us celebrate the fact that we have people that know what they're doing.

I would disagree that Kravtsov and Horvat were small wins, too. But that's another can of worms

 

[JohnHodgson]

I would disagree that Kravtsov and Horvat were small wins, too. But that's another can of worms

These guys do anything to minimize the current management. It's very obvious they've picked a side early and their egos can't let it go.

Personally I'm not attached to Allvin/JR but the track record has been pretty good so far.

I agree with you - Kravstov and Horvat trades are more than "small wins" IMO.

Kravstov has a very good chance to be a productive player for us for many years to come.

 

[strattonius]

These guys do anything to minimize the current management. It's very obvious they've picked a side early and their egos can't let it go.

Personally I'm not attached to Allvin/JR but the track record has been pretty good so far.

I agree with you - Kravstov and Horvat trades are more than "small wins" IMO.

Kravstov has a very good chance to be a productive player for us for many years to come.

I agree with most of what you're saying, however, I do think you're generalizing when you say 'they've picked a side'. I've seen some of what you're saying but there are some solid opinions that disagree.

Kravtsov, for example: So I agree that he's unlikely to amount to anything. It's rare to find a magical bean that turns the corner; but I do acknowledge its possible. That's why I think some are saying it's a 'small win', because the chances are slim he turns it around. That being said, I think it's a big win because the acquisition cost is meaningless to us. It's a free ticket and that's the big win to me regardless of the player outcome. It's almost like two separate arguments that technically agree with the same idea that Kravtsov is a gotta get lucky scenario.