Raptors Discussion: v42 | all hail the Masai-ah|Raptors sign PG Will Cherry to 2yr contract.

[Cor]

Anyone excited for JV this season? Hopefully he really breaks out

 

[topched]

Anyone excited for JV this season? Hopefully he really breaks out

Yep super excited, he really stepped up his game in the playoffs, despite getting horrendous calls against him.

I'm expecting his game to improve in all areas, especially on D where he'll hopefully committ less fouls and stay on the floor longer.

I think he can make the jump from being a 10-10 guy to nearly a 15-15 C which would be awesome

 

[Markowicz]

Anyone excited for JV this season? Hopefully he really breaks out

If he can rebound the ball with authority, he will give us a chance to get over the hump in the playoffs. Both he and Ross are the key players to watch this year. JV and Ross have improved every year, but they still have a couple more steps up the ladder to go. Which is exciting because you know they can be better and haven't reached their ceiling. JV needs to focus on rebounding and defence, while T-Ross needs to continue to drive the ball with authority to the basket, use his athleticism to a greater advantage. We started seeing that in the second half of last season. A lot of pundits forget about Ross (he wasn't even mentioned by NBA.tv in summer league on our depth chart), but the guy has what it takes to be a great scorer. He already has amazing range from 3, and has only barely used his athleticism to score the ball in other ways. I think both players will really break out this year, mostly because the confidence is now there to back up the talent.

 

[Budsfan]

Hard to say there's a "prospect pool" since everyone ends up playing for the team. If you want to break it down by age/experience:

23 and under (and less than 3 years of NBA experience)
1) Terrence Ross, SF (23, 2 yrs experience) - good shooter, excellent athlete, could take the next step to being a good defender and becoming a very nice role player. Or he could really step up his offence and be like DeRozan 2.0, but with a better shot.

2) Jonas Valanciunas, C (22, 2 yrs NBA experience) - Potential to be an excellent NBA Centre in a time where there are precious few of those. Legit size for the position, good array of offensive skills, good rebounder. Already a double-double threat most nights. Will only get better.

3) DeAndre Daniels, SF/PF (22, rookie) - Not likely to play this season (Raptors are expected to have him sign in Europe so they can "stash" him and not have to worry about him taking up a roster spot). If/when he plays he's supposed to have a decent, crafty offensive game with some range, though he realistically lacks a position.

4) Lucas Noiguera, C (21, rookie) - Acquired via trade, and not yet signed to come over from Europe. He's a tall, rail-thin C with excellent mobility and shot-blockers' instincts. Could evolve into a nice devensive presence behind Valanciunas and part of a very mobile 2nd unit.

5) Bruno Caboclo, SF (18, rookie) - tall, rail-thin SF with a huge wingspan. Already has a decent shot and looked good in Summer League, albeit with expected rough spots. He looks a lot better than people were cracking jokes about at the draft (2 years away from being 2 years away) and he has the potential to be an excellent all-around SF, though those "Brazilian Kevin Durant" comparisons are probably unfair in terms of expected production.

And then from 24-27 we have:
DeRozan (24) - Good primary scoring SG, though he could stand to shoot better. He's at least taken steps to pass the ball more and play some D.

Fields (26) - Meh depth guy making way too much money.

Amir (27) - Good energy PF who runs the floor, rebounds, and shoots better than you'd expect for a player of his skill type. Still can foul too much, his intense play style tends to get him banged up, and he's not a great defender. But he's still really useful

James Johnson (27) - Long, lanky SF with excellent defensive capability and toughness. Used to have problems going off-script and trying to be an offensive hero. Apparently he's matured and is over that. If he is, then he becomes the anchor of our defence on the wings.

Patrick Patterson (25) - Reasonably sized PF who doesn't have Amir's toughness, but is similarly athletic and a more rounded offensive player. Capable of going off every once and a while and being a surprising contributor.

Greivis Vasquez (27) - Backup PG and sometimes SG with Casey's rotational tendencies. Kind of a poor man's Jose Calderon (excellent playmaking PG who can also shoot the 3 and keep defenses honest). Not a great defender, but that's tolerable with the versatility he provides as a backup to Lowry or a running mate.

Louis Williams (27) - freshly acquired in a trade with Atlanta, he's a tiny, undersized SG who often gets miscast as a PG. Good shooter, had blazing speed before a significant knee injury, so it remains to be seen how well he bounces back to full health. Won't distribute, and can't defend actual SGs because of his size. But his niche is to be a scorer of the bench and he can do that.

At 28 and over are:
Tyler Hansbrough (28) - Grit/hustle PF who comes off the bench and gets in peoples' faces. Fills a niche.

Kyle Lowry (28) - Bulldog all-around PG who can distribute, shoot, penetrate and score, and play D (especially take charges). Provided he doesn't slack off on his fancy new contract, he's exactly the kind of leader the team needs.

Chuck Hayes (31) - Roster-filler undersized PF. I doubt we see much of him in the lineup or off the bench.


And that's how the roster breaks down.

That's a very good assessment and break down of our players, I was going ask why you missed Bebe, until I completely read the entire post and saw you had used his given name Lucas, it just seemed odd....LOL

 

[The Nemesis]

That's a very good assessment and break down of our players, I was going ask why you missed Bebe, until I completely read the entire post and saw you had used his given name Lucas, it just seemed odd....LOL

He's still listed as Lucas Nogueira on every roster I see, so until the various media rosters update and refer to him by his nickname or as one name (like Nene), I'll likely keep calling him Lucas

 

[topched]

That's a very good assessment and break down of our players, I was going ask why you missed Bebe, until I completely read the entire post and saw you had used his given name Lucas, it just seemed odd....LOL

He's still listed as Lucas Nogueira on every roster I see, so until the various media rosters update and refer to him by his nickname or as one name (like Nene), I'll likely keep calling him Lucas

Agreed nice job Nem, almost had to do a double take on DDs age, hard to believe he's only 24.

Also if were doing the poor mans comparisons, I'd call sweet lou a poor mans Jason Terry (or a rich mans Mike James )

I think that's a hugely underrated Masai aquisition, and I think he could end up being a crucial part of our rotation. With how Casey likes to go small, I think we could see him filling it up often for our already high scoring bench.

I'd actually challenge anyone to name a team with a better 6-9 then Vasquez, Patterson, Williams and Johnson

 

[Cor]

One of PPat or Johnson is our 4, so you need to remove 1 of them from that 6-9 list

 

[Shwaguy*]

Agreed nice job Nem, almost had to do a double take on DDs age, hard to believe he's only 24.

Also if were doing the poor mans comparisons, I'd call sweet lou a poor mans Jason Terry (or a rich mans Mike James )

I think that's a hugely underrated Masai aquisition, and I think he could end up being a crucial part of our rotation. With how Casey likes to go small, I think we could see him filling it up often for our already high scoring bench.

I'd actually challenge anyone to name a team with a better 6-9 then Vasquez, Patterson, Williams and Johnson

Spurs, even if you count Manu as their #3 or 4 instead of 6

Green/Mills/Diaw/Bonner or Kyle Anderson or Bellinelli

But Spurs are one of the deepest teams I've ever seen so nothing to be ashamed about


Edit: I'm hoping we see something around 14-16 ppg/ 10-11 rpg/ 1-2 bpg, with him developing some respectable (not elite) D, on around .530 FG%, So I'd say that's a good breakout, could be enough to get him an all star bid if we're good enough. and then the year after he really becomes elite (Hopefully again lol)

 

[Eyedea]

DD will be 25 in the coming weeks. Still fairly young though and just entering his prime.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

One of PPat or Johnson is our 4, so you need to remove 1 of them from that 6-9 list

James Johnson's our new back-up SF, and both he and PPat are in that 6 - 9 area off our bench.

I'm still hoping we can add a veteran big to back-up JV and/or a 3rd string PG, but even without any more moves our off-season's been a success. I wish we hadn't brought psycho T back, and used that money to nab a center instead.

 

[The Nemesis]

Agreed nice job Nem, almost had to do a double take on DDs age, hard to believe he's only 24.

Also if were doing the poor mans comparisons, I'd call sweet lou a poor mans Jason Terry (or a rich mans Mike James )

I think that's a hugely underrated Masai aquisition, and I think he could end up being a crucial part of our rotation. With how Casey likes to go small, I think we could see him filling it up often for our already high scoring bench.

I'd actually challenge anyone to name a team with a better 6-9 then Vasquez, Patterson, Williams and Johnson

I had to double-take on DeRozan's age too. I was like "24? That can't be right...." 5 websites of corroborating evidence later, it was indeed 24 right now



and I like that "Rich Man's Mike James" comparison. Terry was/is a bit better shooter than Williams.

 

[The Nemesis]

One of PPat or Johnson is our 4, so you need to remove 1 of them from that 6-9 list

He means James Johnson. At least I presume he does.




My own estimated rough value scale:

Superstars (ie elite max-money guys)
None

Stars
1) Lowry
2) DeRozan

Excellent starters/almost stars
3) Valanciunas

very good starters
4) Amir

good starters/great bench players
5) Ross
6) Vasquez
7) Patterson
8) James Johnson
9) Williams

good bench players
10) Nogueira?

depth bench players or niche roleplayers
11) Hansbrough
12) Fields

developing/not ready for primetime
13) Caboclo

warm bodies
14) Hayes


spaces are the rough divides where I think the value groupings change right now. No, we don't have a superstar akin to LeBron or Melo or the like, but that's fine. Most teams don't.

I'm pinning Caboclo that low on the list on the expectation of low usage to start the year. If his progresses this year, he probably gets as high as 10 or tying at 9 if everything breaks right. Nogueira is a question mark because it's apparently not a sure thing he's here for this season or if he's still stuck in Spain for another year.


and honestly, once you get to the good starter/great bench player tier (5-9) the grouping is tightly packed and there's not much drop from 5 down to 9.


We're not the Spurs (and that's fine. There's no shame in not being the Spurs since nobody is the Spurs except the Spurs, ), but we have a lot better depth than most teams out there.

 

[topched]

Spurs, even if you count Manu as their #3 or 4 instead of 6

Green/Mills/Diaw/Bonner or Kyle Anderson or Bellinelli

But Spurs are one of the deepest teams I've ever seen so nothing to be ashamed about


Edit: I'm hoping we see something around 14-16 ppg/ 10-11 rpg/ 1-2 bpg, with him developing some respectable (not elite) D, on around .530 FG%, So I'd say that's a good breakout, could be enough to get him an all star bid if we're good enough. and then the year after he really becomes elite (Hopefully again lol)

Yep Spurs are damn solid, even no Manu id still give you that one.

If we have the best bench in the East, and the only clear cut better bench in the league is the reigning champs id say were pretty set

 

[Mitchy]

Anyone else think the Wiz are starting to get really overrated? Some people predict them to be better than us and some actually think they can challenge Cleveland/Chicago for the top spot in the East. They're a good team for sure, but I don't see them being better than 4th. I would put them in the same category as the Hornets.

 

[DatsyukianDeke*]

Anyone else think the Wiz are starting to get really overrated? Some people predict them to be better than us and some actually think they can challenge Cleveland/Chicago for the top spot in the East. They're a good team for sure, but I don't see them being better than 4th. I would put them in the same category as the Hornets.

They are a great team and could finish ahead of us in the standings. They won't challenge Cavs though.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Personally I can't put Lowry as a star when you're not even a top 5 player at your position.

 

[Joey24]

They are a great team and could finish ahead of us in the standings. They won't challenge Cavs though.

Though you should never bet against Lebron the cavs still have a lot of question marks. Irving is a top tier point but staying healthy is a big concern there. And how much can they rely on Wiggins in his first season? Bennett should improve but enough to take that much of the defensive focus off Lebron? I doubt it.

I think the cavs with LBJ are defiantly going to be in the top end of the division but putting them as the team to beat is exactly why I want them to fail so bad.

 

[LaPlante94]

Personally I can't put Lowry as a star when you're not even a top 5 player at your position.

The guy almost averaged a triple double last season. He might not be flashy like some of the so called elite PG but be gets the job done and is consistent.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

The guy almost averaged a triple double last season. He might not be flashy like some of the so called elite PG but be gets the job done and is consistent.

Yes only 2.5 assists per game and little more than 5 rebounds per game he would have averaged that triple double.

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

Personally I can't put Lowry as a star when you're not even a top 5 player at your position.

PG is probably the deepest position in the NBA right now when it comes to star power. So you can definitely be a star player and not a top 5 PG. But I still think Lowry is top 5:

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Steph Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Kyle Lowry
6. Damian Lillard
7. Kyrie Irving
8. John Wall
9. Goran Dragic
10. Rajon Rondo
HM: Deron Williams, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Mike Conley

Lillard, Irving, Wall, may continue to rise, but they are currently not better than Kyle Lowry. Lowry has only improved every year as well, he may not have peaked yet.

 

[Eyedea]

Btw if Dragic isn't already listed as an SG, he will be this upcoming season.

 

[glasses91]

6. to 8. I would take over lowry any day...

 

[Radiohead]

I would take Conley over Lowry. He's probably the best PG defender in the NBA. He put up similar stats to Lowry on the offensive end too.

 

[Swervin81]

I'd take Conley and Lillard over Lowry, but that's it. He's #7 on my list, which is still an all-star considering the depth at the PG position today. How many SG's are there that are true stars? Not many. Actually, only 2 or 3 now.

 

[Eyedea]

Small sample size maybe, but Conley has been very inefficient in postseason play. Lillard I can understand though.