USA WJC thread

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Oilers Chick

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Jon:

I have to ask a couple of questions on why you are so disappointed with who was and wasn't chosen (no, I'm trying to stir anything up here either. I'm just curious that's all).

Putting all politics and personal biases aside (and I'm assuming that you've actually seen all the players play that you've mentioned)

1) Why IYO should Summers and Sauer have been chosen over Lawson and McBain?

2) What exactly do have against players like Fraser, Abdelkader, and Sweatt as far as being selected and why do you feel that Ryan, Foligno should be on the team over these guys (and please be specific here).
 

Hunter Gathers

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OC --

1) Sauer is just straight up more talented and a better hockey player than either Lawson or McBain. He can do it on both ends of the ice and is constantly considered one of the best d-men out of the WHL right now. He's flown under the radar a bit because of a nagging injury problem his draft year and would've probably been a top 20 pick otherwise.

The kid is all that and a bag of chips.

And this isn't even including my bewilderment at the chosing of Zimmerman (whom I like as a prospect for the pros but highly doubt will do much of anything at this stage) over Sauer, either.

Summers I would've liked due to his versatality. He can play, litterally, any position on the ice outside of goaltender. And he's EXCELLED as both a forward and a defenseman. He'd be a much better option as a checking line center than the guys that were picked in his place and he could've been great on the defense also. While he hasn't set the world on fire (and, in my opinion, McBain has been OK but not as great as others have made him sound here), he is certainly one of the steadiest guys around. His versatality alone make him a valueable asset, as does his mean streak and leadership abilities. Color me EXTREMELY suprised that he was left off, as I thought he would be an ABSOLUTE LOCK to make the team.

2) I don't have any problems with Sweatt being selected. At all. Though I do have problems with Fraser, Carman, and Abdelkader being taken over Ryan. One of those guys could've been dropped for a player with the substantial amount of offense that Ryan brings to the table. I think that come tourny time, our squad is really going to miss his skill on the ice. We have a nice little group of fast, hustling bodies but not that many are going to score against the world's best.

We have to REALLY hope that Kane and JVR can step up to the challange as we can't solely rely on Mueller and Okposo to provide our offense. Ryan's skating isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be and if you pair him with two faster players you'd have no problems at all (and our team is full of fast players).

IMO Foligno brings offense to his checking game. More-so than any of the lower line players we picked. He's also quite feisty (and I think that that might've been the reason he was left off as I think he's still a bit too undiciplined in his play).

Our team just lacks skill all around. We have a very mediocre set of goaltenders. Our forwards really only have two proven scoring forwards in Mueller and Okposo. And our defense could've really used an asset like Sauer, whom nearly everyone posting here is bewildered as to why he was left off the team.

Just a lack of judgement, IMO. I highly doubt that this team does well in the WJCs. If they do, color me suprised. Although, at the same time, I sort of hope that they fall flat on their faces to possibly encourage USA Hockey to make wholesale changes in the way that they handle the team selection process.

A team with no Sauer, Ryan, Sanguinetti, or Summers that includes suspect players that don't offer as much of an all around gamea s some of the guys mentioned is just bewildering to me. I understand that the camps are used as judgement and all, but one would also think that you have to just pick some of the best talents as well to go along with it all (especially considering the camps can hardly give the coaching staff a full impression on what the player's abilities are).

Even if those players I mentioned are chosen to be spot players (IE 13th forwards, #6/7 d-men, etc.) at least they offer a much, much better fallback option in case (knock on wood) one of our guys is injured during the tournament. If a guy like JJ or EJ went down (again, knock on wood) than you could have a guy like Sauer come in and log HEAVY, HEAVY minutes and not look out of place playing against the top lines of other teams.

I'm just very, very disappointed with this team right now. In my honest opinion, we had a chance to be a gold medal contending team. With these selections I honestly think that chance has gone down the tubes.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Agreed on JVR. As for Stoa, I think he's been much more consistent this year than last, which is why he made the team.

Without a doubt he is, but he also still has serious brainfarts.

I just question whether or not he adds much to this team when they are playing the best that the world can offer.
 

Hunter Gathers

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I think the question you have to ask yourself where players like Foligno are concerned is: Is he that much better (if at all) than a player I'm (the U.S. coaching staff) more familiar or comfortable with? For example-is Nick Foligno that much better than Justin Abdelkader-at least at this level? I would say the answer to that is no. Foligno is also a bit of a hothead, and that probably played a role as well.

Like I said to OC, I think the reason that Foligno might've been left off was due to his tendency to be a bit hot headed. But at the same time, you see a kid like Downey on Canada who has the same exact tendencies who comes out to be one of the best players in the entire tournament.

Foligno is quite a bit more talented than a guy like Abdelkader (a guy whom I actually like as a prospect) when all is said and done, IMO.
 

The Fuhr*

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Hows Carmen going to fit in with this team. 4th line center and PK player?
 

RUSqueelin*

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Like I said to OC, I think the reason that Foligno might've been left off was due to his tendency to be a bit hot headed. But at the same time, you see a kid like Downey on Canada who has the same exact tendencies who comes out to be one of the best players in the entire tournament.

Foligno is quite a bit more talented than a guy like Abdelkader (a guy whom I actually like as a prospect) when all is said and done, IMO.

Downie;)

You are quite knowledgable of the US players. Perhaps you should apply for a position.

Ryan's skating problems are over exagerated. He's not a good skater. But neither was Corey Perry when he skated with Crosby and Bergeron in 04/05 and he fit in just fine.

It seems that the US is attempting to pick players that fit specific rolls on the team. But I'm not sure they are doing it right. But only time will tell! They better hope their goalies come up big cause that is were the tourny is won.

BTY..who is coaching the US team this year?
 

Hunter Gathers

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Downie;)

You are quite knowledgable of the US players. Perhaps you should apply for a position.

Ryan's skating problems are over exagerated. He's not a good skater. But neither was Corey Perry when he skated with Crosby and Bergeron in 04/05 and he fit in just fine.

It seems that the US is attempting to pick players that fit specific rolls on the team. But I'm not sure they are doing it right. But only time will tell! They better hope their goalies come up big cause that is were the tourny is won.

BTY..who is coaching the US team this year?

Thanks for the kind words!

Whoops! In my long rant, I figured I made a few spelling errors.

Ron Rolston is coaching this year.

And I also agree that they are definitely picking players for designated roles and I also agree that they could've done a much better, more talent filled job.

The goaltending is going to kill us.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Final, official roster:

No. Name Ht. (cm) Wt. (kg) Birthdate S/C Hometown 2006-07 Team/NHL Team Rights
30 Jeff Frazee# 6-0 (183) 187 (85) 5/13/87 L Burnsville, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)/New Jersey Devils
37 Jeff Zatkoff 6-1 (185) 165 (75) 6/9/87 L Chesterfield, Mich. Miami (Ohio) University (CCHA)/Los Angeles Kings

DEFENSEMEN (7)
4 Taylor Chorney# 5-11 (180) 194 (88) 4/27/87 L Hastings, Minn. University of North Dakota (WCHA)/Edmonton Oilers
6 Erik Johnson# 6-4 (193) 222 (101) 3/21/88 R Bloomington, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)/St. Louis Blues
3 Jack Johnson# 6-1 (185) 215 (98) 1/13/87 L Ann Arbor, Mich. University of Michigan (CCHA)/Los Angeles Kings
2 Kyle Lawson 5-11 (180) 205 (93) 1/11/87 R New Hudson, Mich. University of Notre Dame (CCHA)/Carolina Hurricanes
22 Brian Lee*# 6-3 (191) 205 (93) 3/26/87 R Moorhead, Minn. University of North Dakota (WCHA)/Ottawa Senators
17 Jamie McBain 6-1 (185) 186 (84) 2/25/88 R Faribault, Minn. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)/Carolina Hurricanes
23 Sean Zimmerman 6-2 (188) 201 (91) 5/24/87 R Denver, Colo. Spokane Chiefs (WHL)/New Jersey Devils

FORWARDS (13)
18 Justin Abdelkader 6-1 (185) 210 (95) 2/25/87 L Muskegon, Mich. Michigan State University (CCHA)/Detroit Red Wings
16 Mike Carman 6-0 (183) 183 (83) 4/14/88 L Apple Valley, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)/Colorado Avalanche
11 Jim Fraser 5-11 (180) 181 (82) 1/16/87 R Port Huron, Mich. Harvard University (ECACHL)
5 Blake Geoffrion 6-1 (185) 192 (87) 2/3/88 L Brentwood, Tenn. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)/Nashville Predators
9 Nate Gerbe# 5-5 (165) 169 (77) 7/24/87 L Oxford, Mich. Boston College (HEA)/Buffalo Sabres
27 Patrick Kane 5-10 (178) 166 (75) 11/19/88 L Buffalo, N.Y. London (OHL)/2007 Draft Eligible
24 Trevor Lewis 6-1 (185) 196 (89) 1/8/87 R Murray, Utah Owen Sound (OHL)/Los Angeles Kings
88 Peter Mueller# 6-2 (188) 194 (88) 4/14/88 R Bloomington, Minn. Everett (WHL)/Phoenix Coyotes
8 Kyle Okposo 6-0 (183) 200 (91) 4/16/88 R St. Paul, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)/New York Islanders
12 Jack Skille# 6-1 (185) 202 (91) 5/19/87 R Madison, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)/Chicago Blackhawks
19 Ryan Stoa 6-3 (191) 220 (100) 4/13/87 L Bloomington, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)/Colorado Avalanche
21 Bill Sweatt 6-0 (183) 187 (85) 9/21/88 L Elburn, Ill. Colorado College (WCHA)/2007 Draft Eligible
20 James vanRiemsdyk 6-3 (191) 190 (86) 5/4/89 L Middletown, N.J. U.S. National Under-18 Team/2007 Draft Eligible
 

Rabid Ranger

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Downie;)

You are quite knowledgable of the US players. Perhaps you should apply for a position.

Ryan's skating problems are over exagerated. He's not a good skater. But neither was Corey Perry when he skated with Crosby and Bergeron in 04/05 and he fit in just fine.

It seems that the US is attempting to pick players that fit specific rolls on the team. But I'm not sure they are doing it right. But only time will tell! They better hope their goalies come up big cause that is were the tourny is won.

BTY..who is coaching the US team this year?


Ron Rolston (who coaches the U.S. U18 team) is the head coach. He is being assisted by Phil Housley and Nate Leaman.

As for the construct of the team, I don't find it all that differant from the last few teams. Sometimes the teams strikes gold (the 2003/04 team) and other times it flames out (the last couple of squads). The key, as your rightly point out will be goaltending. Will Zatkoff or Frazee be the Montoya of 03/04 or the Montoya of 04/05?
 

Rabid Ranger

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Thanks for the kind words!

Whoops! In my long rant, I figured I made a few spelling errors.

Ron Rolston is coaching this year.

And I also agree that they are definitely picking players for designated roles and I also agree that they could've done a much better, more talent filled job.

The goaltending is going to kill us.

I'm not sure the goaltending is going to "kill us." Zatkoff at least has been very good this year. Unknown if he can carry that play into the WJC's.
 

Oilers Chick

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Thanks for your input, Jon.

I agree with you on Summers. I'm guessing that one reason why Jimmy Fraser earned a spot was because he, if memory serves me correctly, was a captain for a previous USA team on the international stage, and pretty good one too from I what I gather.

I'll have to take your word on Sauer because I've never seen him play but from the various scouting reports that I've read on him, he's look like a very special player.

Jon, here's another question for you (and Rabid, I'd appreciate you chiming on this as well)...

Do you think that perhaps the selection committee should spend time (or more time) evaluating players during the course of the season, regardless of where they play, up until say the end of November and have their performances (or lack thereof) be a significant determing factor on who does and doesn't make the team? Personally, I'd be all for it, if for no other reason because you can track the players' progress better and get better a read on them as far as who has the potential to step up on the international stage, even if that player has had little or no international experience. Some players can pleasantly surprise you.
 

Hunter Gathers

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I'm not sure the goaltending is going to "kill us." Zatkoff at least has been very good this year. Unknown if he can carry that play into the WJC's.

The main reason I think that is because for some reason if Zatkoff can't cut it in the WJCs, than Frazee scares the hell out of me as our starter.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Thanks for your input, Jon.

I agree with you on Summers. I'm guessing that one reason why Jimmy Fraser earned a spot was because he, if memory serves me correctly, was a captain for a previous USA team on the international stage, and pretty good one too from I what I gather.

I'll have to take your word on Sauer because I've never seen him play but from the various scouting reports that I've read on him, he's look like a very special player.

Jon, here's another question for you (and Rabid, I'd appreciate you chiming on this as well)...

Do you think that perhaps the selection committee should spend time (or more time) evaluating players during the course of the season, regardless of where they play, up until say the end of November and have their performances (or lack thereof) be a significant determing factor on who does and doesn't make the team? Personally, I'd be all for it, if for no other reason because you can track the players' progress better and get better a read on them as far as who has the potential to step up on the international stage, even if that player has had little or no international experience. Some players can pleasantly surprise you.

I certainly think that they should spend more time with evaluations. Canada's final evaluations are just beginning now. I don't know why ours can't at least go longer than they currently are. I almost think that the short amount of time they spend with the players is one of the factors that seem to have an emphasis placed on NCAA players and players that played in their junior system rather than guys who headed north to play in the CHL.

I really can't think of any other reason that guys like Sauer are left off -- and I think that the familiarity aspect really comes into play here. If you give the kids a longer chance to strut their stuff than you get a better team and possibly a more diversified team as well. There's no real drawbacks to having a longer and more intensive evaluation unless having a better team is considered a drawback somehow!

:)
 

Rabid Ranger

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Thanks for your input, Jon.

I agree with you on Summers. I'm guessing that one reason why Jimmy Fraser earned a spot was because he, if memory serves me correctly, was a captain for a previous USA team on the international stage, and pretty good one too from I what I gather.

I'll have to take your word on Sauer because I've never seen him play but from the various scouting reports that I've read on him, he's look like a very special player.

Jon, here's another question for you (and Rabid, I'd appreciate you chiming on this as well)...

Do you think that perhaps the selection committee should spend time (or more time) evaluating players during the course of the season, regardless of where they play, up until say the end of November and have their performances (or lack thereof) be a significant determing factor on who does and doesn't make the team? Personally, I'd be all for it, if for no other reason because you can track the players' progress better and get better a read on them as far as who has the potential to step up on the international stage, even if that player has had little or no international experience. Some players can pleasantly surprise you.


I'm with Jon in the sense that I think the U.S. brass has a long memory-good and bad. For most of the brass the summer evaluation camp is the main way of evaluating talent, and if a player isn't there-for whatever reason-that player is behind the eight ball already. I think that's what hurt a player like Mike Sauer. He was hurt (again) around the time of the camp and wasn't able to show his stuff. Conversely, a player like Sean Zimmerman did play and played well-hence the invite.

It's clear that some of the player selections comes down to familiarity and preference. I have no doubt that to Ron Rolston and his staff that if a player who is a USNTDP alum is even to a CHL player the former is selected-and I really don't have a problem with that.

That being said, I don't think we should assume that the U.S. brass is locked in a room and has no information stream coming in concerning potential team members. I have no doubt they get first hand info on a regular basis.
 

Randall Graves*

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I can fully understand why Bobby Ryan isn't there... the tournament this year is on Olympic sized ice. Ryan is one of the worst skaters in the entire OHL. Tons and tons of talent. But just cant skate. Skating and speed will be huge this time around. I'm still surprised there only three guys out of the CHL. Guys everyone's dissappointed every year about a few guys.
With more ice you can't tell me Ryan wouldn't be better INSIDE the offensive blueline, gives him more room to make plays at the very least he would help the PP..but I think it will be good for him to be left off, Mitera on the other hand I don't understand..when i've seen him this year he's been nothing short of solid, especially defensively. This team isn't all that impressive on paper, outside of Mueller you are relying on a bunch of first timers to score.
 

Randall Graves*

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OC --

1) Sauer is just straight up more talented and a better hockey player than either Lawson or McBain. He can do it on both ends of the ice and is constantly considered one of the best d-men out of the WHL right now. He's flown under the radar a bit because of a nagging injury problem his draft year and would've probably been a top 20 pick otherwise.

The kid is all that and a bag of chips.

And this isn't even including my bewilderment at the chosing of Zimmerman (whom I like as a prospect for the pros but highly doubt will do much of anything at this stage) over Sauer, either.

Summers I would've liked due to his versatality. He can play, litterally, any position on the ice outside of goaltender. And he's EXCELLED as both a forward and a defenseman. He'd be a much better option as a checking line center than the guys that were picked in his place and he could've been great on the defense also. While he hasn't set the world on fire (and, in my opinion, McBain has been OK but not as great as others have made him sound here), he is certainly one of the steadiest guys around. His versatality alone make him a valueable asset, as does his mean streak and leadership abilities. Color me EXTREMELY suprised that he was left off, as I thought he would be an ABSOLUTE LOCK to make the team.

2) I don't have any problems with Sweatt being selected. At all. Though I do have problems with Fraser, Carman, and Abdelkader being taken over Ryan. One of those guys could've been dropped for a player with the substantial amount of offense that Ryan brings to the table. I think that come tourny time, our squad is really going to miss his skill on the ice. We have a nice little group of fast, hustling bodies but not that many are going to score against the world's best.

We have to REALLY hope that Kane and JVR can step up to the challange as we can't solely rely on Mueller and Okposo to provide our offense. Ryan's skating isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be and if you pair him with two faster players you'd have no problems at all (and our team is full of fast players).

IMO Foligno brings offense to his checking game. More-so than any of the lower line players we picked. He's also quite feisty (and I think that that might've been the reason he was left off as I think he's still a bit too undiciplined in his play).

Our team just lacks skill all around. We have a very mediocre set of goaltenders. Our forwards really only have two proven scoring forwards in Mueller and Okposo. And our defense could've really used an asset like Sauer, whom nearly everyone posting here is bewildered as to why he was left off the team.

Just a lack of judgement, IMO. I highly doubt that this team does well in the WJCs. If they do, color me suprised. Although, at the same time, I sort of hope that they fall flat on their faces to possibly encourage USA Hockey to make wholesale changes in the way that they handle the team selection process.

A team with no Sauer, Ryan, Sanguinetti, or Summers that includes suspect players that don't offer as much of an all around gamea s some of the guys mentioned is just bewildering to me. I understand that the camps are used as judgement and all, but one would also think that you have to just pick some of the best talents as well to go along with it all (especially considering the camps can hardly give the coaching staff a full impression on what the player's abilities are).

Even if those players I mentioned are chosen to be spot players (IE 13th forwards, #6/7 d-men, etc.) at least they offer a much, much better fallback option in case (knock on wood) one of our guys is injured during the tournament. If a guy like JJ or EJ went down (again, knock on wood) than you could have a guy like Sauer come in and log HEAVY, HEAVY minutes and not look out of place playing against the top lines of other teams.

I'm just very, very disappointed with this team right now. In my honest opinion, we had a chance to be a gold medal contending team. With these selections I honestly think that chance has gone down the tubes.
Well said

Adding Sauer/Sanguinetti/Ryan/Foligno to the team is a substantial upgrade, there is some talent especially on the blueline no surprise they snub better players for USNDTP boys..
 

Sinurgy

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As a Coyote fan I'm looking forward to seeing Mueller in the tournament and I'm a little surprised that Summers didn't make it as well. Many people have commented about Ryan possibly being left of the team due to his skating, with that in mind it seems Summers would be a lock because of his skating! I'm confused! :dunno:
 

ReLyT

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USA shuns the CHL kids for all the right political reasons... what would keep young american hockey players from going into the CHL if half of team USA was in the CHL. It would really hurt the gollege level hockey in the usa. No doubt with more games in a season, and having free schooling while your on the team, makes the CHL more sexy. If a kid has dreams of playing for team USA he's afraid to goto the CHL, thats what USA Hockey wants.

It sucks but they have to do it.
 

xander

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USA shuns the CHL kids for all the right political reasons... what would keep young american hockey players from going into the CHL if half of team USA was in the CHL. It would really hurt the gollege level hockey in the usa. No doubt with more games in a season, and having free schooling while your on the team, makes the CHL more sexy. If a kid has dreams of playing for team USA he's afraid to goto the CHL, thats what USA Hockey wants.

It sucks but they have to do it.

what?

first off let me state that I am a huge college hockey fan
<<<<<<<<<<(as you can see to the left)

1. the job of the selection commitiee is not to pimp NCAA hockey, it's to pick the best team. Thats it. Leaving off the leading goalscorer among OHL defensemen, a talented offense forward like Ryan, and one of the best twoway defensemen in WHL because they play in the CHL doesn't achieve this objective. Funny how there are the exact amount of CHL players on this year's roster as last year's (3), I guess that's the quota.

2. You actually think that getting picked for the WJC team factors into a player's decision when they choose between the CHL and NCAA? 99% of elite prospects are going to make this decision based on which league fits them best and will help them develop as a player. A few of the NCAA guys may also value the education (though I don't think this is a major factor for most elite prospects.) I doubt that the ability to play for 2 weeks in late december/early january does not factor into where a prospect chooses to play hockey from the age of 16 to 20 or 22. The hockey USA policy of limiting the amount of CHL layers on the WJC roster doesn't change a players mind, it's just petty and ultimately damaging to the team.
 
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