Player Discussion Urho Vaakanainen

[Hockey Duckie]

Can't argue with your logic. Just would rather develop guys that actually might have a role when Ducks are again competitive.

Filling in as a 7th D is an important role, especially with a competent D. The 7th, or in Vaaks' case the 8th D-man role, was sitting in the press box and waiting for your chance to play. Vaaks had to wait until Drysdale fell to injury and the Luneau experiment failed early in the season to get a chance to play. Why would the Ducks have Zellweger or Hinds play the 7th D role when either could be playing full time in the AHL?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Vaaks is starting to look like that solid middle pairing defenceman we thought we were getting when we traded Lindholm. I think he's played more then well enough to the point the question has shifted from, when is he being traded to him possibly being apart of the defensive core.

LaCombe is only a rookie so plenty of time (though Vaaks is only 2 years older and only has 50ish more games played), but if his offence doesn't develop......I like Vaaks' defensive game alot more then LaCombe's.

I believe I saw someone here state he is sort of like a Lydman type of defenceman, and I like that comparison. Those are the sort of defenceman you win with as well.

This is Vaaks 6th year as a pro (NHL and AHL). For LaCombe, this is his rookie season as a pro, despite being only 2 years younger. It's kinda odd to want to write off LaCombe on a 23-game sample, while helping to shelter Vaaks in the process.

I'm not sure if Vaaks is a middle pairing D, but he's looking a lot better nowadays since he's been healthy and strung together a lot of games without getting injured. It's great for him and the Ducks.

 

[Deuce22]

Filling in as a 7th D is an important role, especially with a competent D. The 7th, or in Vaaks' case the 8th D-man role, was sitting in the press box and waiting for your chance to play. Vaaks had to wait until Drysdale fell to injury and the Luneau experiment failed early in the season to get a chance to play. Why would the Ducks have Zellweger or Hinds play the 7th D role when either could be playing full time in the AHL?

I said "when the Ducks are again competitive." Not now. Zellweger and Hinds will eventually pass Vaaks IMO.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I said "when the Ducks are again competitive." Not now. Zellweger and Hinds will eventually pass Vaaks IMO.

I don't think it matters if they competitive or not. It only matters if Zell and/or Hinds can earn steady position in the top-6 than be the 7th or 8th D. Passing up Vaaks isn't the only threshold.

LD depth today

Fowler​

Minty​

LaCombe (ELC ends after this season)​

Vaaks (RFA with arb after this season)​

RD depth today

Drysdale​

Lyubushkin (UFA after this season)​

Gudas​

Luneau​

Who will Zell or Hinds replace? If neither can replace the top-3 at LD or RD, then it's pointless to promote either as a 7th or 8th D. Let them continue developing in the AHL full-time, than be a part-time player in the NHL. Currently, Zell is a 2nd pairing D and Hinds is a 3rd pairing D.

After this season, there will be two more seasons of Fowler and Gudas. Maybe the org doesn't re-sign LaCombe after this season. Luneau maybe sent to the AHL next year instead of going to the NHL if either Zell or Hinds beats Luneau out, but there is a caveat - Verbeek wants d-men on their shooting side, not off-side.

 

[Deuce22]

I don't think it matters if they competitive or not. It only matters if Zell and/or Hinds can earn steady position in the top-6 than be the 7th or 8th D. Passing up Vaaks isn't the only threshold.

LD depth today

Fowler​

Minty​

LaCombe (ELC ends after this season)​

Vaaks (RFA with arb after this season)​

RD depth today

Drysdale​

Lyubushkin (UFA after this season)​

Gudas​

Luneau​

Who will Zell or Hinds replace? If neither can replace the top-3 at LD or RD, then it's pointless to promote either as a 7th or 8th D. Let them continue developing in the AHL full-time, than be a part-time player in the NHL. Currently, Zell is a 2nd pairing D and Hinds is a 3rd pairing D.

After this season, there will be two more seasons of Fowler and Gudas. Maybe the org doesn't re-sign LaCombe after this season. Luneau maybe sent to the AHL next year instead of going to the NHL if either Zell or Hinds beats Luneau out, but there is a caveat - Verbeek wants d-men on their shooting side, not off-side.

If the org thinks a prospect can play in the NHL, they will make room for him. Note Carlsson, LaCombe, Mintyukov, and Luneau. Zellweger will be a Duck as soon as they think he is ready. Hinds has a tougher road, but I like what he brings. Depth veterans aren't going to block the top prospects. Hagg was never blocking LaCombe or Mintyukov. Eventually I think it will be:

Mintyukov-Luneau
LaCombe-Drysdale
Zellweger-Moore
Hinds/Warren in the mix

 

[Hockey Duckie]

If the org thinks a prospect can play in the NHL, they will make room for him. Note Carlsson, LaCombe, Mintyukov, and Luneau. Zellweger will be a Duck as soon as they think he is ready. Hinds has a tougher road, but I like what he brings. Depth veterans aren't going to block the top prospects. Hagg was never blocking LaCombe or Mintyukov. Eventually I think it will be:

Mintyukov-Luneau
LaCombe-Drysdale
Zellweger-Moore
Hinds/Warren in the mix

That's the problem, we have a good thing going right now with our D-corps and it's Vaaks that's the rotation guy, so to speak. Luneau is on the more advanced Carlsson strengthening program. Luneau is probably being groomed to play RD full-time next season with the Ducks. Whenever Drysdale comes back, Vaaks will behave like a poster in the press box for a long minute.

Fowler and Gudas are here for two more seasons. If Zell and Hinds can't beat out Minty and LaCombe, then they're press box guys in the NHL. That would be a waste. I'd rather have Vaaks in that position than our youths.

Here's a quote from Defend the Nest's game 19 post report on Hinds and Zell:

It doesn't seem like neither is to make the jump anytime soon, unless it's for a stay-at-home guy due to injury. Then Hinds would be called up to play between the two. Yet, I doubt that happens with Hagg and White in front of both. Recall, it was Hagg that got called up as the 7th D when the Ducks went on the road (forgot the reason why... like was it due to injuries or an injury and Luneau in the AHL).

I still think we need to train Hinds at RD since we lack depth at that position in our system. Maybe Zell can play RD. Both have been playing RD in juniors. There's a higher chance of finding time on the right side than left, tbh.

 

[mightyquack]

This is Vaaks 6th year as a pro (NHL and AHL). For LaCombe, this is his rookie season as a pro, despite being only 2 years younger. It's kinda odd to want to write off LaCombe on a 23-game sample, while helping to shelter Vaaks in the process.

I'm not sure if Vaaks is a middle pairing D, but he's looking a lot better nowadays since he's been healthy and strung together a lot of games without getting injured. It's great for him and the Ducks.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where I wanted to write off Lacombe. In fact, I think I actually said there is plenty of time given Lacombe is only a rookie.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Sorry, I must have missed the part where I wanted to write off Lacombe. In fact, I think I actually said there is plenty of time given Lacombe is only a rookie.

Vaaks is starting to look like that solid middle pairing defenceman we thought we were getting when we traded Lindholm. I think he's played more then well enough to the point the question has shifted from, when is he being traded to him possibly being apart of the defensive core.

LaCombe is only a rookie so plenty of time (though Vaaks is only 2 years older and only has 50ish more games played), but if his offence doesn't develop......I like Vaaks' defensive game alot more then LaCombe's.

I believe I saw someone here state he is sort of like a Lydman type of defenceman, and I like that comparison. Those are the sort of defenceman you win with as well.

Also, comparing LaCombe in his rookie season's defense with Vaaks' defense in his 6th year as a pro is kinda odd. Vaaks should be more refined than a rookie, but that rookie is sheltering Vaaks. So there's that.

Now, I am very surprised with Vaaks play as he's finally healthy and receiving consistent playing time due to Drysdale's injury and Luneau not being able to play top pairing to start the season. Vaaks is doing great in a 3rd pairing role and I've also advocated that he displace Fowler on the PK to give Fowler rest. I'd like to keep Vaaks for an extra year or two as a 7th D, but know he cannot play the right side.

 

[duckaroosky]

This is probably peak happiness for a Finn:

 

[Leonardo87]

Congrats Vaak. I loved how he was looking around to make sure it would count.

I think he has been very good this season. Our D has improved from last year despite the injuries and losing Drysdale (who hardly played this season), we just cannot score goals.

I think he has a future with this team, will really help us cope with the Lindholm trade, if he ends up becoming a solid 4/5 guy. lol.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Congrats Vaak. I loved how he was looking around to make sure it would count.

I think he has been very good this season. Our D has improved from last year despite the injuries and losing Drysdale (who hardly played this season), we just cannot score goals.

I think he has a future with this team, will really help us cope with the Lindholm trade, if he ends up becoming a solid 4/5 guy. lol.

Vaak had to battle through several injuries and concussions for seasons. He had the fortune of Drysdale being injured early this season and being healthy himself to see development with a long burn. Pairing with Gudas helped Vaak play a similar style to Gudas. I know Cronin's tried Vaaks away from Gudas, but doesn't get the same result.

 

[Random Guy]

Him and Gudas are so solid back there. They are +22 combined somehow. Very underrated and unappreciated player on the roster.

 

[mightyquack]

I said it a while back, but I see Vaaks as part of the defensive core going forward.

He's not flashy, but he has all the tools to be a solid 2nd pairing defense first guy and that's going to be invaluable going forward given our best young defenseman are all puck movers.

 

[Giguere27]

One of the best stories of the season so far.

Vaks was written off by the most fans at the beginning of the season. But he played a solid, underrated season. If he‘s able to stay healthy and retain his level of play, he should find his niche as a steady defender on the Ducks

 

[Hockey Duckie]

One of the best stories of the season so far.

Vaks was written off by the most fans at the beginning of the season. But he played a solid, underrated season. If he‘s able to stay healthy and retain his level of play, he should find his niche as a steady defender on the Ducks

Vaak was written off at the beginning of both seasons. He didn't look good after the TDL acquisition. Didn't look good last year and got injured twice. Concussion hit Vaak again. In Boston, he already had two concussion injuries.

Being healthy, playing on the correct pair level, playing on the correct side, and playing with a defenseman that he plays most like has helped Vaak develop very well this year, in that particular order.

In the past two seasons (TDL + 2022-23), Vaak has played a total of 37 games. 14 games after the TDL acquisition and 23 games last season. This year, he's played in 41 games.

Urho's season started playing on his off-side with Fowler on the top line when Drysdale got injured and rookie Luneau wasn't ready for top line duty. Vaak got replace in the middle of his second game with Fowler. That was when Vaak was paired with Gudas on the third pairing. He has been emulating Gudas' style of play. Eventually, Vaak would participate on the PK. This long burn of play and development is more than enough evidence that Vaak can find a job on any NHL club as a stay-at-home defenseman, not just on the Ducks.

 

[MMC]

Vaak was written off at the beginning of both seasons. He didn't look good after the TDL acquisition. Didn't look good last year and got injured twice. Concussion hit Vaak again. In Boston, he already had two concussion injuries.

Being healthy, playing on the correct pair level, playing on the correct side, and playing with a defenseman that he plays most like has helped Vaak develop very well this year, in that particular order.

In the past two seasons (TDL + 2022-23), Vaak has played a total of 37 games. 14 games after the TDL acquisition and 23 games last season. This year, he's played in 41 games.

Urho's season started playing on his off-side with Fowler on the top line when Drysdale got injured and rookie Luneau wasn't ready for top line duty. Vaak got replace in the middle of his second game with Fowler. That was when Vaak was paired with Gudas on the third pairing. He has been emulating Gudas' style of play. Eventually, Vaak would participate on the PK. This long burn of play and development is more than enough evidence that Vaak can find a job on any NHL club as a stay-at-home defenseman, not just on the Ducks.

Maybe by you, I thought he was fine when he first came over

 

[Ducks DVM]

Maybe by you, I thought he was fine when he first came over

He also looked very good before running his face into the boards in the preseason the next year. His concern has been his health, not his ability

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Maybe by you, I thought he was fine when he first came over

He also looked very good before running his face into the boards in the preseason the next year. His concern has been his health, not his ability

Vaak wasn't this good when he first came over nor pre-season the following year. He was what... near Jacob Larsson level at best. He looked terrible playing RD when put into that position. Then again, Benoit, Beaulieu, and White all looked terrible playing RD.

I'm glad he's healthy this year to shed the rep of being made out of glass and red flags for his three concussions in his young career. I'm also glad he's paired up with Gudas.

• Vaak SAT% and plus/minus rating
  • 2022: 39.4 and -5 rating in 14 games
  • 2022-23: 43.1 and - 16 in 23 games
  • 2023-24: 45.4 and +5 in 41 games

 

[Bergey37]

Maybe by you, I thought he was fine when he first came over

He WAS fine when he first came to us; I saw good upside in that. Then he got hurt and he struggled coming back from the first injury, then got hurt again. This year, when just about everyone wanted him on waivers at the end of camp, a few of us still had faith and he's improved over what we saw in the beginning. He will get better and for me, he HAS a place on the team.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

He also looked very good before running his face into the boards in the preseason the next year. His concern has been his health, not his ability

Yeah I don't think anyone had completely written him off but it was fair to have very little expectations given his inability to stay healthy

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yeah I don't think anyone had completely written him off but it was fair to have very little expectations given his inability to stay healthy

Combination between low expectations and talent coming on left side, lacombe playing right side and Mintyukov getting injured helped give him the opportunity to show his game

 

[JAHV]

I know that I had almost written Vaakanainen off coming into this season. He rarely impressed me in the time he was on the ice and I figured the injury issues would irreparably damage his ability to develop into a useful NHL defenseman.

As it turns out, he and Gudas form an excellent third pair. Vaakanainen is very solid positionally and makes few mistakes. He's not much in the offensive zone, but he's also not a complete waste of space there. I'm not sure I'd want him playing higher in the lineup, but as a 3D, he's been impressive.

 

[Deuce22]

Some who were crapping on Verbeek for trading Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell wanted him to be bad to further their narrative. Now they're changing their tune.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Yeah I don't think anyone had completely written him off but it was fair to have very little expectations given his inability to stay healthy

I had written him off for sure. I see both him and lacombe as coin flips to being here longer term. But at least vakks now has trade value. I see him being here longer term more than I can see lacombe being here longer term

 

[JAHV]

I had written him off for sure. I see both him and lacombe as coin flips to being here longer term. But at least vakks now has trade value. I see him being here longer term more than I can see lacombe being here longer term

LaCombe definitely has more offense to his game than Vaakanainen, but with Zellweger and Mintyukov clearly* being better prospects and more offensively talented, I'm not sure where that leaves him. Unless LaCombe really can adequately play the right side, he's going to battle with Vaakanainen for that 3LD spot.

*That might be an oversell on Zellweger who has looked fine so far, but hasn't proven anything yet.