UPDATE 12/15 - Ottawa owner talks moving Senators: ‘If it becomes a disaster, yes’

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
20,268
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Between the Pipes
It doesn't matter how well off Hamilton might or might not be. It doesn't matter on the breakdown of the people that live there. It doesn't matter if an arena is there or not. Hamilton... it doesn't matter, because the NHL is never going to put a team in a place that is going to result in them ending up in a court battle with it largest revenue generator ( The Leafs ).
 

GrantLemons

Church of FYOUS
Feb 3, 2013
1,997
1,584
Ottawa, ON
Melnyk first announced that the Sens were a budget team in 2013 when they had about the 5th highest attendance in the league -over 19000-and a payroll at 26th in the league which he said was too much and had to be cut to fit his internal budget

.Some said he was piling debt on the team to pay off outstanding loans on his struggling pharmaceutical companies, but whatever the reason Sens fans did not appreciate seeing their payers traded off when they were filing the rink.

He always seemed to be at war with the city -over soccer field for an MLS team he hoped to acquire and a casino etc. His habit of going on Toronto Sports radio and bashing Ottawa, the city, politicians etc over these perceived slights did not endear him to fans.

If Menyk remains owner we will lose all those payers anyway, jiffy time. The only way to have a stable franchise is for him to sell.

And people wonder why attendance has slowly declined. The year he runs Alfie out of town over $$, and he starts spewing garbage about being a budget team, despite one of the highest attendance figures in the league, attendance and fan engagement starts slipping. You don't say?!?

The guy has no clue how to run a business. Instead of investing in fan experience/sales/marketing/branding, he cuts his organization down to bare bones and surprise surprise, things start to go south. People point to the fact the team was one goal away from the cup final last year, and attendance is still bad, the problem is nothing ever changes. The team was worse coming into camp this year, because we never do anything in draft or free agency because of $$. You have to sell hope in pro sports, and there is nothing more depressing than watching your team get as far as it's gotten in 10 years, then watching it get worse in the off season because the owner won't open his wallet to improve the team.

There's a dark cloud over this franchise, and the only way to remove it is for Melnyk to sell. It's the only way things will improve here.
 

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
20,268
20,942
Between the Pipes
And people wonder why attendance has slowly declined. The year he runs Alfie out of town over $$, and he starts spewing garbage about being a budget team, despite one of the highest attendance figures in the league, attendance and fan engagement starts slipping. You don't say?!?

The guy has no clue how to run a business. Instead of investing in fan experience/sales/marketing/branding, he cuts his organization down to bare bones and surprise surprise, things start to go south. People point to the fact the team was one goal away from the cup final last year, and attendance is still bad, the problem is nothing ever changes. The team was worse coming into camp this year, because we never do anything in draft or free agency because of $$. You have to sell hope in pro sports, and there is nothing more depressing than watching your team get as far as it's gotten in 10 years, then watching it get worse in the off season because the owner won't open his wallet to improve the team.

There's a dark cloud over this franchise, and the only way to remove it is for Melnyk to sell. It's the only way things will improve here.

The owners need to realize what it take to keep people invested in the team. I'm in Winnipeg and I am a STH and I love watching hockey... BUT, if it ever becomes apparent to me that the team owners are not trying to develop a winning team and are just trying to float a budget team with no goal except to survive... I'm done and I'm walking away.
 

Swarez

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
1,010
6
People keep bringing up Hamilton, but forget every job and economic report about Hamilton includes Burlington and Grimbsby. Burlington is the GTA, there economy is booming it is essentially the suburbs continuing to grow out from Toronto.

Hamilton is still struggling in many respects. Downtown Hamilton today has fewer jobs than 10 years ago. The biggest boom in jobs downtown Hamilton is in the restaurant and entertainment, with a small increase in Science (mostly due to the new Mcmaster health center) and government.

Office Vacancy is still 15% in downtown Hamilton (its under 1% in downtown Toronto).

Hamilton is a long way to being able to support a team on its own, it needs Burlington, Milton, Niagara. I really do think it will be a lot tougher in Hamilton than people want to admit. Not to mention median incomes. Households in Ottawa have a medium income of $104K, Hamilton has a medium income of $87K.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
36,041
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Auburn, Maine
People keep bringing up Hamilton, but forget every job and economic report about Hamilton includes Burlington and Grimbsby. Burlington is the GTA, there economy is booming it is essentially the suburbs continuing to grow out from Toronto.

Hamilton is still struggling in many respects. Downtown Hamilton today has fewer jobs than 10 years ago. The biggest boom in jobs downtown Hamilton is in the restaurant and entertainment, with a small increase in Science (mostly due to the new Mcmaster health center) and government.

Office Vacancy is still 15% in downtown Hamilton (its under 1% in downtown Toronto).

Hamilton is a long way to being able to support a team on its own, it needs Burlington, Milton, Niagara. I really do think it will be a lot tougher in Hamilton than people want to admit. Not to mention median incomes. Households in Ottawa have a medium income of $104K, Hamilton has a medium income of $87K.

which hurts Buffalo, more than MLSE
 

GuelphStormer

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
3,811
499
Guelph, ON
People keep bringing up Hamilton, but forget every job and economic report about Hamilton includes Burlington and Grimbsby. Burlington is the GTA, there economy is booming it is essentially the suburbs continuing to grow out from Toronto.

Hamilton is still struggling in many respects. Downtown Hamilton today has fewer jobs than 10 years ago. The biggest boom in jobs downtown Hamilton is in the restaurant and entertainment, with a small increase in Science (mostly due to the new Mcmaster health center) and government.

Office Vacancy is still 15% in downtown Hamilton (its under 1% in downtown Toronto).

Hamilton is a long way to being able to support a team on its own, it needs Burlington, Milton, Niagara. I really do think it will be a lot tougher in Hamilton than people want to admit. Not to mention median incomes. Households in Ottawa have a medium income of $104K, Hamilton has a medium income of $87K.

hamilton can certainly support an nhl franchise and would easily become a top five revenue contributor. that's beyond argument and the league itself has acknowledged it. the viability of the market has never been in doubt, let alone today. rather, the real barriers are political, mostly driven by jacobs' paternalistic view of buffalo/hamilton and a mysterious MLSE supposed veto, as well as league-level strategic concerns for alignment, broadcast coverage and growing the game.

fwiw, burlington is generally considered part of the greater hamilton area while oakville is thought to be part of the greater toronto area. but those are arbitrary designations. regardless, population and demographics of every sports franchise location include the greater metropolitan area and realistically, folks in oakville will be no less likely to hop on the 403 for a game than folks in aldershot or ancaster. also, the several billion dollars in recent downtown development would suggest actual people with actual money think hamilton is worth investing in.

moving an existing team to hamilton is one thing and market comparisons are fun. whether hamilton can support a franchise, however acquired, is not in doubt.
 

Bjorn Le

Hobocop
May 17, 2010
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hamilton can certainly support an nhl franchise and would easily become a top five revenue contributor. that's beyond argument and the league itself has acknowledged it. the viability of the market has never been in doubt, let alone today. rather, the real barriers are political, mostly driven by jacobs' paternalistic view of buffalo/hamilton and a mysterious MLSE supposed veto, as well as league-level strategic concerns for alignment, broadcast coverage and growing the game.

fwiw, burlington is generally considered part of the greater hamilton area while oakville is thought to be part of the greater toronto area. but those are arbitrary designations. regardless, population and demographics of every sports franchise location include the greater metropolitan area and realistically, folks in oakville will be no less likely to hop on the 403 for a game than folks in aldershot or ancaster. also, the several billion dollars in recent downtown development would suggest actual people with actual money think hamilton is worth investing in.

moving an existing team to hamilton is one thing and market comparisons are fun. whether hamilton can support a franchise, however acquired, is not in doubt.

It's absolutely up for argument, especially because the top five revenue claim is about as factual as Hercules. Because the team would be in Hamilton, they could not charge Toronto prices (well they could, but they would do about as well as the Senators when they attempt that). They would not get nearly the same TV revenue the Leafs do, and the market for luxury boxes is not good at all (and no, major companies from Toronto are not going to view a Hamilton team the same way as they do Toronto when it comes to corporate sponsorships). The barriers are absolutely economic. None of these take into account the enormous investment it would take to get Hamilton's arena up to snuff.

People in Oakville will absolutely be less likely to go to a Hamilton game than people in Aldershot or Ancaster. No matter what Hamilton's branding is, people in Oakville will not feel a connection to a Hamilton team. Who in Burlington considers themselves part of a Hamilton region? There's even less of a connection with Oakville. And as I said in a previous post, the development in Hamilton really means nothing, as it's far from exceptional in Ontario. What major city isn't seeing several billion dollars in downtown investment? Land is comparatively cheap in Hamilton, it makes sense people are cashing in. It's not a sign that the city is booming economically.
 
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coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,819
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And people wonder why attendance has slowly declined. The year he runs Alfie out of town over $$, and he starts spewing garbage about being a budget team, despite one of the highest attendance figures in the league, attendance and fan engagement starts slipping. You don't say?!?

The guy has no clue how to run a business. Instead of investing in fan experience/sales/marketing/branding, he cuts his organization down to bare bones and surprise surprise, things start to go south. People point to the fact the team was one goal away from the cup final last year, and attendance is still bad, the problem is nothing ever changes. The team was worse coming into camp this year, because we never do anything in draft or free agency because of $$. You have to sell hope in pro sports, and there is nothing more depressing than watching your team get as far as it's gotten in 10 years, then watching it get worse in the off season because the owner won't open his wallet to improve the team.

There's a dark cloud over this franchise, and the only way to remove it is for Melnyk to sell. It's the only way things will improve here.


We all know the house was papered with thousands of freebies, so you and everyone else can stop with the "highest attendance" lies, 3-4,000 were not paid for and everyone knows that.

Cutting the organization to bare bones does not affect me, or the players on the ice. That and many other reasons are copouts for not supporting the team. You want to sell hope? There is plenty of hope. It was evident last playoffs and it was evident in camp with future players like Brown, Formenton, Chabot, Batherson? I think the team was coming in with youthful players like Harpur, Claesson, players that have to play.

I mean, those are fan things though. We all have different perceptions and that derails the discussion a bit. I felt optimistic this fall...but that's just me I guess. The owner is spending middle of the road, even though revenues do not reflect that. That is where the fans comein, or lack of fans for that matter.

People in Ottawa can justify why they do not support their team, but you know they are all watching at home. So, it speaks to fanbase apathy. We are the weakest market in Canada, and that is with the cheapest average tickets, by far.
 

NorthCoast

Registered User
May 1, 2017
1,250
1,167
We all know the house was papered with thousands of freebies, so you and everyone else can stop with the "highest attendance" lies, 3-4,000 were not paid for and everyone knows that.

Cutting the organization to bare bones does not affect me, or the players on the ice. That and many other reasons are copouts for not supporting the team. You want to sell hope? There is plenty of hope. It was evident last playoffs and it was evident in camp with future players like Brown, Formenton, Chabot, Batherson? I think the team was coming in with youthful players like Harpur, Claesson, players that have to play.

I mean, those are fan things though. We all have different perceptions and that derails the discussion a bit. I felt optimistic this fall...but that's just me I guess. The owner is spending middle of the road, even though revenues do not reflect that. That is where the fans comein, or lack of fans for that matter.

People in Ottawa can justify why they do not support their team, but you know they are all watching at home. So, it speaks to fanbase apathy. We are the weakest market in Canada, and that is with the cheapest average tickets, by far.

If the market is weak it is because of the size of the market and it is because the public has to make up the majority of rev because of weak corporate support. It is not because individual fans in Ottawa do not support their team at the same rate as other cities. (excluding maybe Edmonton and Winnipeg).

The data on per capita team support is easy to produce and clearly indicates that Ottawa residents are willing to spend 2x on their team per capita than most other fan bases.

Capture.jpg
 

JMROWE

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
1,372
52
Hamilton Ontario
I am not advocating for Hamilton I am advocating for a REGIONAL TEAM FOR THE WESTERN HALF OF SOUTHERN ONTARIO In which Hamilton is a part of & is the only city in this part of the province that has the infrastructure to handle an NHL. team not to mention the space to build an NHL sized arena if need be & any team here would be called Ontario or Upper Canada .

That is what is highly in demand in southern Ontario a regional team that the rest of us in the rest of us in western part of southern Ontario that is what Jim Balsille was advocating for Hamilton just happen to be the city that had the infrastructure to handle an NHL. team so let me spell it out for you .

R E G I O N A L
 

htpwn

Registered User
Nov 4, 2009
20,555
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Toronto
It's absolutely up for argument, especially because the top five revenue claim is about as factual as Hercules. Because the team would be in Hamilton, they could not charge Toronto prices (well they could, but they would do about as well as the Senators when they attempt that). They would not get nearly the same TV revenue the Leafs do, and the market for luxury boxes is not good at all (and no, major companies from Toronto are not going to view a Hamilton team the same way as they do Toronto when it comes to corporate sponsorships). The barriers are absolutely economic. None of these take into account the enormous investment it would take to get Hamilton's arena up to snuff.

People in Oakville will absolutely be less likely to go to a Hamilton game than people in Aldershot or Ancaster. No matter what Hamilton's branding is, people in Oakville will not feel a connection to a Hamilton team. Who in Burlington considers themselves part of a Hamilton region? There's even less of a connection with Oakville. And as I said in a previous post, the development in Hamilton really means nothing, as it's far from exceptional in Ontario. What major city isn't seeing several billion dollars in downtown investment? Land is comparatively cheap in Hamilton, it makes sense people are cashing in. It's not a sign that the city is booming economically.

@GuelphStormer is correct on this one. During the Phoenix bankruptcy trial, the NHL conceded that its own market analysis had Hamilton being a potential top 5 revenue generator.
 

gordie

5x
Jul 9, 2002
5,201
74
hfboards.com
NHL doesn't need nor want Hamilton. Toronto & Buffalo represent that region of North America in the NHL and the NHL would encourage a far different market if Ottawa decided to leave Canada's Capital City. Hamilton is just like Hartford in the sense they are small cities that have no major league reputation too close to major NHL markets that see no need for them to be included in the NHL.
 

GuelphStormer

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
3,811
499
Guelph, ON
People in Oakville will absolutely be less likely to go to a Hamilton game than people in Aldershot or Ancaster. No matter what Hamilton's branding is, people in Oakville will not feel a connection to a Hamilton team. Who in Burlington considers themselves part of a Hamilton region? There's even less of a connection with Oakville.
nonsense.

like any new franchise, a team in hamilton will need to build a fanbase, that's a given. but its silly to think artificial boundaries on a map will somehow dissuade people from attending games or developing some sort of emotional affinity for a team. im guessing you are not local, and therefore do not understand distance, traffic and timing ... evening games in downtown hamilton will take folks in the oakville/burlington areas half the time to get to than games in downtown toronto. indeed, more deposits during balsillie's attempt to bring the preds to hamilton in 2007 came from folks east of downtown hamilton than west of it - and that includes burlington and oakville. of course the team will draw folks from there and its silly to suggest otherwise.
 

Bjorn Le

Hobocop
May 17, 2010
19,593
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Martinaise, Revachol
@GuelphStormer is correct on this one. During the Phoenix bankruptcy trial, the NHL conceded that its own market analysis had Hamilton being a potential top 5 revenue generator.

Potential is a qualifier, the Hamilton supporters in this thread have asserted it as a definite, that it would be a top five revenue generator. The latter claim is the myth, and is one oft reported on these boards. It's easy to see why market analysis would see the potential in the Hamilton market, you have more than five million people within an hour/hour-and-a-half drive to the city, it's a hockey dedicated market, and incomes are generally high in the Golden Horseshoe. But that's a best case scenario, and it's really not that substantive a claim given how vague it is.

nonsense.

like any new franchise, a team in hamilton will need to build a fanbase, that's a given. but its silly to think artificial boundaries on a map will somehow dissuade people from attending games or developing some sort of emotional affinity for a team. im guessing you are not local, and therefore do not understand distance, traffic and timing ... evening games in downtown hamilton will take folks in the oakville/burlington areas half the time to get to than games in downtown toronto. indeed, more deposits during balsillie's attempt to bring the preds to hamilton in 2007 came from folks east of downtown hamilton than west of it - and that includes burlington and oakville. of course the team will draw folks from there and its silly to suggest otherwise.

It's not. We know that an long commutes to go to games are detriments to a persons chances at becoming a season ticket holder, and season ticket holders are also rarely people going to games by themselves. People in Oakville don't necessarily work in Oakville either (in fact most won't, given it's an affluent bedroom community of the GTA), many will work in Vaughn, Mississauga, Downtown Toronto, etc. For them to come home from work, pick up their families, and go to a game is a significant amount of time. And why would they do it when they have no connection to Hamilton besides also being a city along the 403/QEW? Ottawa has enough trouble going to Kanata and they don't have that problem. The Leafs are a poor comparison anyway, given the dominance of corporate owned seasons tickets, something Hamilton can neither rely on nor expect.

Deposits are completely irrelevant. It takes no effort or risk to put $500 down, and we have no exact statistics on who bought them either. Vegas had a very successful season ticket drive, but it's not guarantee they will have long term local support.

Anyways, the problem is whether they would have good attendance. They would probably sell out most games, if not every game. The problem is everything else. You have an arena that needs half a billion in renovations, a city with a very weak corporate base (you only have to look to New York City, which has three teams, to see that the Rangers are the only one to garner significant corporate support), a city with lower income than others around it, and a city that would need to pay off two teams in order to gain a franchise. Those combined makes Hamilton an unattractive relocation/expansion target, something which the NHL clearly agrees.

If you were a multi-billionaire looking to own a new NHL franchise, why would you pick Hamilton? You have an expansion fee of $650 million (a relocation fee of maybe half that, maybe the same), $500 million to renovate or build a new arena (which would likely have to be done with public funds), an unknown figure (but also probably in the hundreds of millions) to gain access to a market shared by the Sabres and Leafs, a city that is not viewed as having a shared identity by most of it's neighbours, and one that has very little in the name of indigenous corporate support. The attractive part is it's in an expanded metropolitan area of approximately 10 million people, and that area is in a hockey crazed market, but all the negative factors are too much. I've met Jim Balsillie on several occasions. He's a nice man, a smart man, one who would have definitely been a passionate owner. But in his push to get a team, he didn't really stop and think about how little the NHL wanted that market. He must have known to some degree, as is ideal location was a team in KW, not Hamilton, but he didn't do the lengths the NHL would go to avoid that city. Given how uncontroversial it was to move a team to Winnipeg, a city with also many concerns, it is beyond clear the NHL has no interest in Hamilton.
 

GrantLemons

Church of FYOUS
Feb 3, 2013
1,997
1,584
Ottawa, ON
We all know the house was papered with thousands of freebies, so you and everyone else can stop with the "highest attendance" lies, 3-4,000 were not paid for and everyone knows that.

Cutting the organization to bare bones does not affect me, or the players on the ice. That and many other reasons are copouts for not supporting the team. You want to sell hope? There is plenty of hope. It was evident last playoffs and it was evident in camp with future players like Brown, Formenton, Chabot, Batherson? I think the team was coming in with youthful players like Harpur, Claesson, players that have to play.

I mean, those are fan things though. We all have different perceptions and that derails the discussion a bit. I felt optimistic this fall...but that's just me I guess. The owner is spending middle of the road, even though revenues do not reflect that. That is where the fans comein, or lack of fans for that matter.

People in Ottawa can justify why they do not support their team, but you know they are all watching at home. So, it speaks to fanbase apathy. We are the weakest market in Canada, and that is with the cheapest average tickets, by far.

It doesn't? Are you going to games and watching the in house entertainment? Are you watching them play some garbage recycled version of their entrance song (that sounds like it was recorded by a 6th grade music class) instead of the classic one () that got myself and a whole other generation of Sens fans hooked during the late 90's early 2000's? Are you seeing them roll out random anthem singers instead of Lyndon Slewidge, who everyone in Sens nation (and the hockey world) loves? Are you seeing them sporting some of the most bland, plain jerseys in the league, while our alumni teams wear what is widely considered one of the nicest, most respected crests/jerseys league wide? These are things that brand your product and make people connect with it, and the organization is doing so little of it now.

I'm a 29 y/o working class male with disposable income, and I haven't bought a jersey in years, yet I'd be lining up for a EK 2D black alumni style jersey. Why hasn't the jersey been changed in almost 10 years? Why hasn't the organization done anything to target my demographic? You can't even buy season seats online FFS, you have to chase and hunt them down via phone just to give them your money.

You may not care about these kinds of things, but I do. I work for a startup, and I know first hand how negatively the company can be affected by a toxic attitude from ownership. I still go to games, but it's really, really, hard for me to fork over cash to go and watch all of my favourite things I used to see at games not happen, while having to listen to the owner threaten relocation, and watch us get bent over in all of our trades because they are motivated by real $$ in/out, instead of by cap hit or real hockey value.

We can agree to disagree. Stripping the organization down to nothing affects me, as a fan. I love this team, but the organization is stale and pathetic. It's disappointing to me as a fan to see what was once such a great and proud organization be reduced to what it is now.
 

JMROWE

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
1,372
52
Hamilton Ontario
Hamilton is nothing like Hartford for one Hamilton population is bigger at 764.000 & the GHA. is about between 1 million & 2 million not mention there are a lot of major USA. cities that have a blue collar economy just like Hamilton & that have a number of sports teams like Pittsburgh , Detroit , Cleveland , Newark , Buffalo , ect. so don't tell me Hamilton can't handle an NHL. team but my argument remains the same an NHL. team in Hamilton would be a REGIONAL TEAM for the western part of southern Ontario that what is needed in the biggest unserved NHL. market but I don't think it will be Ottawa I think the Senators will get what they want so will the Flames in Calgary my guess is the Coyotes , Hurricanes & Panthers will be the teams moving to Quebec City , Houston & Southern Ontario not only to stronger markets but will keep an east \ west balance as well .

HAMILTON (REGIONAL TEAM )
ONTARIO
UPPER CANADA
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
36,041
4,442
Auburn, Maine
Hamilton is nothing like Hartford for one Hamilton population is bigger at 764.000 & the GHA. is about between 1 million & 2 million not mention there are a lot of major USA. cities that have a blue collar economy just like Hamilton & that have a number of sports teams like Pittsburgh , Detroit , Cleveland , Newark , Buffalo , ect. so don't tell me Hamilton can't handle an NHL. team but my argument remains the same an NHL. team in Hamilton would be a REGIONAL TEAM for the western part of southern Ontario that what is needed in the biggest unserved NHL. market but I don't think it will be Ottawa I think the Senators will get what they want so will the Flames in Calgary my guess is the Coyotes , Hurricanes & Panthers will be the teams moving to Quebec City , Houston & Southern Ontario not only to stronger markets but will keep an east \ west balance as well .

HAMILTON (REGIONAL TEAM )
ONTARIO
UPPER CANADA
guess what, unless you have the $, to buy an NHL Club, then we'll consider it....
 

gordie

5x
Jul 9, 2002
5,201
74
hfboards.com
Hamilton is nothing like Hartford for one Hamilton population is bigger at 764.000 & the GHA. is about between 1 million & 2 million not mention there are a lot of major USA. cities that have a blue collar economy just like Hamilton & that have a number of sports teams like Pittsburgh , Detroit , Cleveland , Newark , Buffalo , ect. so don't tell me Hamilton can't handle an NHL. team but my argument remains the same an NHL. team in Hamilton would be a REGIONAL TEAM for the western part of southern Ontario that what is needed in the biggest unserved NHL. market but I don't think it will be Ottawa I think the Senators will get what they want so will the Flames in Calgary my guess is the Coyotes , Hurricanes & Panthers will be the teams moving to Quebec City , Houston & Southern Ontario not only to stronger markets but will keep an east \ west balance as well .

HAMILTON (REGIONAL TEAM )
ONTARIO
UPPER CANADA

NHL is not going to put teams on top of each other especially when Toronto & Buffalo are opposed. There is of course this fallacy about all the money an NHL team would make in Hamilton or Southern Ontario. With the indemnification fees that need to be paid to Toronto & Buffalo in perpetuity that would offset any financial windfalls of any franchise placed there.
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
23,695
2,132
NHL is not going to put teams on top of each other especially when Toronto & Buffalo are opposed. There is of course this fallacy about all the money an NHL team would make in Hamilton or Southern Ontario. With the indemnification fees that need to be paid to Toronto & Buffalo in perpetuity that would offset any financial windfalls of any franchise placed there.
The league said hamilton would make a lot of money. This is solely about Buffalo and Toronto.
 

JMROWE

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
1,372
52
Hamilton Ontario
May be in the past the Leafs would ask for a lot of money to give it's so called territory but now seeing that they are a multi billion dollar juggernaut they might just waive the territory fee as a good PR. move because if they ask for a boat load cash up front they would have PR nightmare on there hands since they just signed that huge naming rights deal with Scotiabank & asking for money for a Hamilton (Southern Ontario) regional franchise would be deemed greedy & huge backlash will ensue against MLSE. Buffalo on the other hand I could see getting small but fair territory fee somewhere in between $50 - 80 million dollars that is it
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
36,041
4,442
Auburn, Maine
May be in the past the Leafs would ask for a lot of money to give it's so called territory but now seeing that they are a multi billion dollar juggernaut they might just waive the territory fee as a good PR. move because if they ask for a boat load cash up front they would have PR nightmare on there hands since they just signed that huge naming rights deal with Scotiabank & asking for money for a Hamilton (Southern Ontario) regional franchise would be deemed greedy & huge backlash will ensue against MLSE. Buffalo on the other hand I could see getting small but fair territory fee somewhere in between $50 - 80 million dollars that is it
Pegula will ask for 4 times that fee
 

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