UPDATE 12/15 - Ottawa owner talks moving Senators: ‘If it becomes a disaster, yes’

[Price is Wright]

I think this guy is living off the Sens.

That's exactly the situation. He has cut so many jobs and pays Boucher peanuts.

 

[ottawah]

Is there any talk of extending the Ottawa light rail to Kanata?

2028. But some other timelines have been moved up, hopefully this one will.

The plans have moved around a bit but traffic to downtown is expected to be impossible for a 3 year time period, 2019-2022 (roughly) to the point the mayor asked the government to put work at home in place. The problem is the dedicated bus routes are going to be shut down for light rail construction. But in any case the arena should be done by 2022 (if it is going to happen).

I believe at that point the east end (which was never much of a Senators supporter even when the rink was downtown) should be pretty good. The west end you will have to drive to a park and ride, catch a bus to a train station then go to the rink. I know west enders, and thats not gonna happen, at least for many. The lack of parking at the new arena really is an issue IMHO. Ottawa traffic is hardly as bad as most people make it out to be (I have been able to do 35 minutes downtown to butt in seat for the season opener) and the bus is still seen as the laymans transport, the people who normally buy tickets are not bus riders by and large. You can catch a bus downtown to a game, 30 minutes, yet only 10% of fans do it.

The LRT is going to change all that in Ottawa, I believe mass transit at that point will be accepted by everyone, and it will be a great way to get to the game. But it has to get out to the west and south first.

 

[JMROWE]

The NHL has processes in place to prevent, for lack of a better word, "bad" prospective owners from gaining a franchsie. It ought to have similar mechanisms in place to dealer with owners who become unable or unwilling to effectively manage their franchise. Melnyk has no money (or at least, no money he's willing to put into the team), cares more about his properties in Barbados than in Ottawa, publically derides the most important development plan the team has seen since it's inception, and wonders aloud about moving the franchise days after he says he has no interest in selling.

None of this looks good for the league. They need to rid themselves of this cretin once and for all.



It's not, and you're literally told this in every thread. Hamilton has a weaker economy than other Canadian cities half their size, and is increasingly becoming a bedroom community for the GTA proper. Not to mention "ballooning" is a clearly incorrect word for a city that is growing less than the national average (and has slowed from last census).

So you are telling me places like Winnipeg , Quebec City have stronger economies than Hamilton please Hamilton has had one of largest booming economies in the country the city has issued billions of dollars in building permits over the past few years along with steady job growth with no signs of slowing down & with the city population at 767.00 & GHA at 1.4 million Hamilton in the best shape it has been in years & if & when Hamilton gets an NHL. team it would not considered a small market like a Winnipeg , Buffalo or even a Quebec City it would be labeled as a big market franchise & top 5 money maker & with franchises like the Coyotes , Panthers , Hurricanes , Islanders & even the Flames & Senators that are either having arena issues or financial issues there bound to be a few relocations there for a Quebec City , Houston or Hamilton .

 

[KevFu]

Hamilton would be a great NHL market. But it's MLSE holding up the works.

 

[DowntownBooster]

So you are telling me places like Winnipeg , Quebec City have stronger economies than Hamilton please Hamilton has had one of largest booming economies in the country the city has issued billions of dollars in building permits over the past few years along with steady job growth with no signs of slowing down & with the city population at 767.00 & GHA at 1.4 million Hamilton in the best shape it has been in years & if & when Hamilton gets an NHL. team it would not considered a small market like a Winnipeg , Buffalo or even a Quebec City it would be labeled as a big market franchise & top 5 money maker & with franchises like the Coyotes , Panthers , Hurricanes , Islanders & even the Flames & Senators that are either having arena issues or financial issues there bound to be a few relocations there for a Quebec City , Houston or Hamilton .

You're not going to gain any support for Hamilton by knocking Winnipeg. Do you really think that Winnipeg has not had a large amount of investment over the last number of years like Hamilton? True North Square alone is a $ 400+ million development in downtown Winnipeg. In regards to population and growth rates of the top 100 largest municipalities in Canada using data from the 2016 census for census subdivisions, Winnipeg is ranked 7th at 705,224 in 464.1 sq km with a population growth rate of 6.27% over the period of 2011-2016. Hamilton on the other hand was ranked 10th at 536,917 in 1,117.2 sq km with a population growth rate of 3.26% over the same period. Further regarding population, it was reported by Bartley Kives of CBC News on March 8, 2017 that Statistics Canada reported the population of the Winnipeg census metropolitan area --- the city and nearby municipalities where more than half the population commutes daily for work or school --- was estimated to be 811,874 as of July 1, 2016. That's up from 794,729 on Canada Day in 2015. It also edges out Quebec City's metropolitan population, which Statistics Canada pegged at 807,211 on July 1, 2016. In regards to head offices in Canada, although Winnipeg ranks 6th among the eighth largest census metropolitan areas for number of head offices, Winnipeg had the third-highest number of head offices per 100,000 population. It's quite alright if you want to promote Hamilton as a possible NHL market but you don't need to deride Winnipeg in order to do so.

 

[Bjorn Le]

So you are telling me places like Winnipeg , Quebec City have stronger economies than Hamilton please Hamilton has had one of largest booming economies in the country the city has issued billions of dollars in building permits over the past few years along with steady job growth with no signs of slowing down & with the city population at 767.00 & GHA at 1.4 million Hamilton in the best shape it has been in years & if & when Hamilton gets an NHL. team it would not considered a small market like a Winnipeg , Buffalo or even a Quebec City it would be labeled as a big market franchise & top 5 money maker & with franchises like the Coyotes , Panthers , Hurricanes , Islanders & even the Flames & Senators that are either having arena issues or financial issues there bound to be a few relocations there for a Quebec City , Houston or Hamilton .

That’s what I am telling you. Winnipeg definitely does, being better than QC is nothing to be proud of and it certainly isn’t a guarantee either. Construction is not the sign of a booming economy in the GTA, where literally every city is issuing countless building permits. Construction in Hamilton has nothing to due with a booming economy and everything to do with the city transforming into a bedroom community for Toronto/Mississauga.

The rest of your post is what you’ve been saying for years on these board. It’s not true. Hamilton is never getting an NHL team. They are too poor, have little indigenous corporate support that would set them apart from actually putting a team closer to Toronto proper, have an arena that would cost upwards of half a billion dollars to renovate at the very least (and I suspect a redevelopment would come closer to a billion), and no matter your wishful thinking, they get to pay indemitites to both the Leafs and Sabres. It was always said Balsillie’s first choice was Kitchener because of how flawed a market Hamilton wa.

 

[JMROWE]

That’s what I am telling you. Winnipeg definitely does, being better than QC is nothing to be proud of and it certainly isn’t a guarantee either. Construction is not the sign of a booming economy in the GTA, where literally every city is issuing countless building permits. Construction in Hamilton has nothing to due with a booming economy and everything to do with the city transforming into a bedroom community for Toronto/Mississauga.

The rest of your post is what you’ve been saying for years on these board. It’s not true. Hamilton is never getting an NHL team. They are too poor, have little indigenous corporate support that would set them apart from actually putting a team closer to Toronto proper, have an arena that would cost upwards of half a billion dollars to renovate at the very least (and I suspect a redevelopment would come closer to a billion), and no matter your wishful thinking, they get to pay indemitites to both the Leafs and Sabres. It was always said Balsillie’s first choice was Kitchener because of how flawed a market Hamilton wa.

TO POOR PLEASE if you came to me about 14 years ago & said that I would 100% agree with you but a lot has changed since then the red hill express way is done connecting the QEW to the 401 not to mention the LRT. system that is going to be built & I go on & on but if want to look at poorer cities than Hamilton just look at some of these places that have a number of sports teams Buffalo , Brooklyn , Detroit , Newark , Miami , Cleveland & St. Louis for example so don't tell me Hamilton is to poor & the only reason people say Hamilton is to poor are the un educated morons from the USA. & to a way lesser extent Toronto .

 

[JMROWE]

You're not going to gain any support for Hamilton by knocking Winnipeg. Do you really think that Winnipeg has not had a large amount of investment over the last number of years like Hamilton? True North Square alone is a $ 400+ million development in downtown Winnipeg. In regards to population and growth rates of the top 100 largest municipalities in Canada using data from the 2016 census for census subdivisions, Winnipeg is ranked 7th at 705,224 in 464.1 sq km with a population growth rate of 6.27% over the period of 2011-2016. Hamilton on the other hand was ranked 10th at 536,917 in 1,117.2 sq km with a population growth rate of 3.26% over the same period. Further regarding population, it was reported by Bartley Kives of CBC News on March 8, 2017 that Statistics Canada reported the population of the Winnipeg census metropolitan area --- the city and nearby municipalities where more than half the population commutes daily for work or school --- was estimated to be 811,874 as of July 1, 2016. That's up from 794,729 on Canada Day in 2015. It also edges out Quebec City's metropolitan population, which Statistics Canada pegged at 807,211 on July 1, 2016. In regards to head offices in Canada, although Winnipeg ranks 6th among the eighth largest census metropolitan areas for number of head offices, Winnipeg had the third-highest number of head offices per 100,000 population. It's quite alright if you want to promote Hamilton as a possible NHL market but you don't need to deride Winnipeg in order to do so.

I was just using Winnipeg as an example as a smaller NHL. market comparison to a Southern Ontario (Hamilton) market would be that is all sorry .

 

[RyCam]

Hamilton would be a great NHL market. But it's MLSE holding up the works.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm assuming the vast majority of hockey fans in Hamilton are Leafs fans. If a city like Ottawa, which is not only a bigger market than Hamilton but also is further away from Toronto and Montreal than Hamilton is from Toronto, still has a lot of holdover Habs and Leafs fans from the days before the Sens, a Hamilton hockey team probably wouldn't do as great as everyone thinks.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Hamilton would be a great NHL market. But it's MLSE holding up the works.

I remember hearing rumblings that it was more Buffalo than Toronto that were against a Hamilton team.

Honestly, the Maple Leafs might welcome a team in Hamilton, because that probably means Toronto 2 is never happening.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

For those who float the idea of the NHL either codify or enforce some existing rule to allow it to rid itself of perceived bad owners haven't thought it through. The only way you can get rid of owner without too much of a fight would be if we're talking about Donald Sterling, a really old guy who probably couldn't show his face at games without protests and who's continued presence might cause players to mutiny. Or, if we're talking about someone who's really broke and literally can't pay the teams bills (like Jeff Vanderbeek). Otherwise, an owner who is determined to hold on to his franchise can bog the league down in litigation for years, and Melnyk is very, very litigious.

It stinks for Senators fans. If they show up to watch the team play, the owner will still be the cheapskate that he's always been. Fans don't show up even in protest, Melnyk uses it as evidence for further penny pinching or more threats to move the team.

So really the only thing that Sens fans can do is make it not "fun" for him to own the team. Boo him at games whenever he shows up on the jumbotron. Hope that a lot of players come out and say how they don't approve of how he treats the fans, the city or the players. Short of that, it doesn't look like he's going anywhere.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

For those who float the idea of the NHL either codify or enforce some existing rule to allow it to rid itself of perceived bad owners haven't thought it through. The only way you can get rid of owner without too much of a fight would be if we're talking about Donald Sterling, a really old guy who probably couldn't show his face at games without protests and who's continued presence might cause players to mutiny. Or, if we're talking about someone who's really broke and literally can't pay the teams bills (like Jeff Vanderbeek). Otherwise, an owner who is determined to hold on to his franchise can bog the league down in litigation for years, and Melnyk is very, very litigious.

It stinks for Senators fans. If they show up to watch the team play, the owner will still be the cheapskate that he's always been. Fans don't show up even in protest, Melnyk uses it as evidence for further penny pinching or more threats to move the team.

So really the only thing that Sens fans can do is make it not "fun" for him to own the team. Boo him at games whenever he shows up on the jumbotron. Hope that a lot of players come out and say how they don't approve of how he treats the fans, the city or the players. Short of that, it doesn't look like he's going anywhere.

It's inevitable at this point. He's tarnished his reputation over the last few years and this last weekend was just the cherry on top.

I don't see anyway he'll gain trust back. Plenty of Sens fans are now boycotting the team until he sells. Once Karlsson leaves, it'll be over for him.

A Lebreton arena is his only life raft right now. Even then, nobody really likes him anymore.

 

[Bjorn Le]

TO POOR PLEASE if you came to me about 14 years ago & said that I would 100% agree with you but a lot has changed since then the red hill express way is done connecting the QEW to the 401 not to mention the LRT. system that is going to be built & I go on & on but if want to look at poorer cities than Hamilton just look at some of these places that have a number of sports teams Buffalo , Brooklyn , Detroit , Newark , Miami , Cleveland & St. Louis for example so don't tell me Hamilton is to poor & the only reason people say Hamilton is to poor are the un educated morons from the USA. & to a way lesser extent Toronto .

Poor is relative. Compared to the rest of Ontario, Hamilton is poor. They're not St. Catherines, Fort Erie, or Sarnia poor, but the city doesn't compare to the wealth contained in Toronto, Markham, Missisauga, Vaughn, Ottawa, Kitchener-Waterloo, or even London. All the Red Hill has done is to further facilitate Hamilton's shift from a economic hub to a spoke in Toronto's hub. Hamilton is far from the only Ontario city to think about a LRT, but unlike Hamilton, cities like Newmarket and KW have actually built theirs. All the cities you mentioned have far more money than Hamilton. Buffalo is the only comparable, yet Buffalo is still an economic hub unto itself. Per capita income and housing prices mean very little in this context because Hamilton has shifted towards a residential zone for people working in Toronto. The "spokes" in Hamilton's hub have shifted to other cities, Burlington is more linked to Mississauga, Brantford to KW, etc. It's no coincidence that the Niagara peninsula continues to be one of the least affluent parts of Ontario; with Hamilton's decline, St. Catherines, Grimsby, etc., have struggled. Hamilton shifting towards a bedroom community doesn't help them. One of my friends consulted on recent City of Hamilton initiatives to improve prosperity in the city (and Hamilton has had a lot of these consultations, including hiring expensive US "experts" who amount to little more than motivational speakers who say Hamilton needs to be more "entrepreneurial") and even the most diehard Hammer loyalists are starting to realize that yes, Hamilton's future is a city that feeds into Toronto's economic system rather than the center of an economy unto their own.

This isn't to mention that Hamilton is still dominated by blue-collar work at a time when just about every other manufacturing heavy city has transitioned, or is in decline. Why would anyone put a team in Hamilton when there are far more attractive markets in Ontario, let alone in the United States.

I remember hearing rumblings that it was more Buffalo than Toronto that were against a Hamilton team.

Honestly, the Maple Leafs might welcome a team in Hamilton, because that probably means Toronto 2 is never happening.

Maybe, but welcoming doesn't equate to allowing a team in their market to enter without paying homage (i.e. a massive indemnity). When you have teams like the San Francisco Giants literally blocking their cross-town rival from moving to another local city (San Jose), why would a comparably powerful team in another major sport allow a team to enter unconditionally?
Buffalo probably would actively block a Hamilton team, while Toronto may only require money, but they would definitely stand in the way.

 

[KevFu]

I'm not so sure about that. I'm assuming the vast majority of hockey fans in Hamilton are Leafs fans. If a city like Ottawa, which is not only a bigger market than Hamilton but also is further away from Toronto and Montreal than Hamilton is from Toronto, still has a lot of holdover Habs and Leafs fans from the days before the Sens, a Hamilton hockey team probably wouldn't do as great as everyone thinks.

Over time that changes. The vast number of NHL fans in Anaheim were LA Kings fans until the Ducks showed up.

 

[KevFu]

I remember hearing rumblings that it was more Buffalo than Toronto that were against a Hamilton team.

Honestly, the Maple Leafs might welcome a team in Hamilton, because that probably means Toronto 2 is never happening.

Buffalo would have to be protected, but that's relatively easy.

 

[coladin]

The pharma, and ironically the tech sector have boomed since 1995. The region economy is a lot more diversified than it was 20 years ago. The weird tech paralel between Quebec, Seattle and Kanata is that coders are busy people... Really busy people. Good luck having a social life like going to hockey games during crunch time.

I just think that Quebec, having lost their NHL team, would be more appreciative of NHL hockey instead of the apathetic hockey market in Ottawa. Ottawans have become entitled when it comes to NHL hockey, and don't appreciate what they have. Only when it is gone, or gutted in order for Melnyk to make it feasible, will they lament the glory days of players like Karlsson, Stone and Hoffman.

For the rest of the NHL, we will draft well and watch our players leave as soon as they do their time and go UFA.

 

[powerstuck]

I just think that Quebec, having lost their NHL team, would be more appreciative of NHL hockey instead of the apathetic hockey market in Ottawa. Ottawans have become entitled when it comes to NHL hockey, and don't appreciate what they have. Only when it is gone, or gutted in order for Melnyk to make it feasible, will they lament the glory days of players like Karlsson, Stone and Hoffman.

For the rest of the NHL, we will draft well and watch our players leave as soon as they do their time and go UFA.

As a fan from Quebec, we would embrace any team but our options at getting any team are rather slim (to not say inexistant). But that doesn't change the fact that Melnyk is a dick and he could be in owner in Toronto or Chicago and he would still be a dick.

 

[Ernie]

Travis Yost has a roundup of of the issues surrounding the Senator's financial situation.

- Melnyk was in desperate financial straits during the previous lockout but was able to refinance $150m of debt on a 4 year term when ticket sales resumed. He's likely having problems extending that debt.
- Lots of rumours of staff not being paid
- Notes on how financial issues played into Alfredsson's first and second exits from the franchise
- Not likely that Karlsson will stick around unless something changes.

It's Yost writing on his personal blog, so there's plenty of speculation not unlike you'd see around here, but still there are some tidbits of fresh info there.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Travis Yost has a roundup of of the issues surrounding the Senator's financial situation.

- Melnyk was in desperate financial straits during the previous lockout but was able to refinance $150m of debt on a 4 year term when ticket sales resumed. He's likely having problems extending that debt.
- Lots of rumours of staff not being paid
- Notes on how financial issues played into Alfredsson's first and second exits from the franchise
- Not likely that Karlsson will stick around unless something changes.

It's Yost writing on his personal blog, so there's plenty of speculation not unlike you'd see around here, but still there are some tidbits of fresh info there.

Other interesting thing about Yost's piece is that Melnyk's claim that the lenders felt that Karlsson's no-trade was material is likely a complete lie. Yost said he spoke to a couple of bankers who could not really come up with a good reason why a lender would care whether Karlsson would rather be traded to St. Louis than Toronto. Also notes that Brassard was never asked to give his no-trade list.

 

[JMROWE]

Not all people in Hamilton are leafs & sabers in fact the Hamilton hockey market is more divided than some people think .

Hamilton NHL. fan bases
Toronto Maple Leafs
Ottawa Senators
Montreal Canadians
Detroit Red Wings
Buffalo Sabers
Boston Bruins

So as of right now Hamilton caters to 6 different NHL. teams & those that are die hard 's they will stay loyal to there team even if & when Hamilton gets an NHL. team but will cheer for a Hamilton except when there team is playing them with the exception of the Leaf fans in Hamilton they will stay loyal to the leafs no matter what & won't cheer for a Hamilton NHL. team .

 

[JMROWE]

Poor is relative. Compared to the rest of Ontario, Hamilton is poor. They're not St. Catherines, Fort Erie, or Sarnia poor, but the city doesn't compare to the wealth contained in Toronto, Markham, Missisauga, Vaughn, Ottawa, Kitchener-Waterloo, or even London. All the Red Hill has done is to further facilitate Hamilton's shift from a economic hub to a spoke in Toronto's hub. Hamilton is far from the only Ontario city to think about a LRT, but unlike Hamilton, cities like Newmarket and KW have actually built theirs. All the cities you mentioned have far more money than Hamilton. Buffalo is the only comparable, yet Buffalo is still an economic hub unto itself. Per capita income and housing prices mean very little in this context because Hamilton has shifted towards a residential zone for people working in Toronto. The "spokes" in Hamilton's hub have shifted to other cities, Burlington is more linked to Mississauga, Brantford to KW, etc. It's no coincidence that the Niagara peninsula continues to be one of the least affluent parts of Ontario; with Hamilton's decline, St. Catherines, Grimsby, etc., have struggled. Hamilton shifting towards a bedroom community doesn't help them. One of my friends consulted on recent City of Hamilton initiatives to improve prosperity in the city (and Hamilton has had a lot of these consultations, including hiring expensive US "experts" who amount to little more than motivational speakers who say Hamilton needs to be more "entrepreneurial") and even the most diehard Hammer loyalists are starting to realize that yes, Hamilton's future is a city that feeds into Toronto's economic system rather than the center of an economy unto their own.

This isn't to mention that Hamilton is still dominated by blue-collar work at a time when just about every other manufacturing heavy city has transitioned, or is in decline. Why would anyone put a team in Hamilton when there are far more attractive markets in Ontario, let alone in the United States.

Actually Hamilton's largest employer are not the steel mills anymore like a Dofasco who by the way continue to set record profits instead the largest employer in Hamilton is St. Joe's Healthcare & there are no more markets other than Hamilton in Ontario right now that have infrastructure to support an NHL. team not to mention Hamilton has more undeveloped land than any other major city in Ontario for industrial , commercial & residential use may be even the country that mean Hamilton is due for an NHL. team within the next 12 years & one last thing a Hamilton NHL. team would be considered a regional team & most likely be called Ontario or Upper Canada such as for example the Golden State Warriors - The Bay area , San Jose Sharks - The Bay area , New England Patriots - Boston & the rest of the New England states .

 

[Korpse]

Other interesting thing about Yost's piece is that Melnyk's claim that the lenders felt that Karlsson's no-trade was material is likely a complete lie. Yost said he spoke to a couple of bankers who could not really come up with a good reason why a lender would care whether Karlsson would rather be traded to St. Louis than Toronto. Also notes that Brassard was never asked to give his no-trade list.

Seems to me there's been a lot of confusion around this, in his 31 thoughts Elliotte Friedman mentioned that he heard Brassard was asked in the summer. I've also seen it mentioned that players are regularly asked to submit their lists during training camp and I believe it was Zack Smith who said he submitted his at the start of training camp.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Actually Hamilton's largest employer are not the steel mills anymore like a Dofasco who by the way continue to set record profits instead the largest employer in Hamilton is St. Joe's Healthcare & there are no more markets other than Hamilton in Ontario right now that have infrastructure to support an NHL. team not to mention Hamilton has more undeveloped land than any other major city in Ontario for industrial , commercial & residential use may be even the country that mean Hamilton is due for an NHL. team within the next 12 years & one last thing a Hamilton NHL. team would be considered a regional team & most likely be called Ontario or Upper Canada such as for example the Golden State Warriors - The Bay area , San Jose Sharks - The Bay area , New England Patriots - Boston & the rest of the New England states .

AGAIN, No ownership and no current arena, JM Rowe so STOP advocating for Hamilton, you're lucky the OHL team even exists there

 

[Bjorn Le]

Actually Hamilton's largest employer are not the steel mills anymore like a Dofasco who by the way continue to set record profits instead the largest employer in Hamilton is St. Joe's Healthcare & there are no more markets other than Hamilton in Ontario right now that have infrastructure to support an NHL. team not to mention Hamilton has more undeveloped land than any other major city in Ontario for industrial , commercial & residential use may be even the country that mean Hamilton is due for an NHL. team within the next 12 years & one last thing a Hamilton NHL. team would be considered a regional team & most likely be called Ontario or Upper Canada such as for example the Golden State Warriors - The Bay area , San Jose Sharks - The Bay area , New England Patriots - Boston & the rest of the New England states .

It doesn't matter who the largest employer is, Hamilton has more blue-collar (i.e. threatened) jobs than other Canadian cities near it's size. As well, who cares that Hamilton is the only city without a team with the infrastructure to have a team? The league is explicit about not wanting to expand to the East, and no one is moving a team to Hamilton. Hamilton isn't due for anything, the NHL went for Ottawa instead, and the one chance they had for a team this millennium was shot down and as I said in my last post, Balsillie's number one choice in Ontario wasn't even Hamilton. Who cares what Hamilton would have been named, the market isn't good enough, and the situation is going to be even worse when the NHL might be looking again to the east for a team. Ontario won't even be considered until 2030s at the earliest, and then it's still only going to be GTA #2 or Waterloo Region having any legitimate chance. If the NHL rejected Hamilton in the 1990s, and the mid-2000s, why would they change their mind now.

 

[pepty]

I just think that Quebec, having lost their NHL team, would be more appreciative of NHL hockey instead of the apathetic hockey market in Ottawa. Ottawans have become entitled when it comes to NHL hockey, and don't appreciate what they have. Only when it is gone, or gutted in order for Melnyk to make it feasible, will they lament the glory days of players like Karlsson, Stone and Hoffman.

For the rest of the NHL, we will draft well and watch our players leave as soon as they do their time and go UFA.

Melnyk first announced that the Sens were a budget team in 2013 when they had about the 5th highest attendance in the league -over 19000-and a payroll at 26th in the league which he said was too much and had to be cut to fit his internal budget

.Some said he was piling debt on the team to pay off outstanding loans on his struggling pharmaceutical companies, but whatever the reason Sens fans did not appreciate seeing their payers traded off when they were filing the rink.

He always seemed to be at war with the city -over soccer field for an MLS team he hoped to acquire and a casino etc. His habit of going on Toronto Sports radio and bashing Ottawa, the city, politicians etc over these perceived slights did not endear him to fans.

If Menyk remains owner we will lose all those payers anyway, jiffy time. The only way to have a stable franchise is for him to sell.