Proposal: Unsigned Erik Karlsson to Edmonton

[AvatarAang]

The Oilers will not be trading Draisaitl any time soon, not sure why anyone thinks there is any chance he gets traded, because he will not be.

Good point, I don't really see anyone giving up fair value for a winger that makes 8.5M

I still think it's a good trade for both teams. The sens actually have good wingers for Drai to play with, so he may be able to succeed as a C.

Obviously Karlsson not wanting to live/play in Edmonton is the dealbreaker

 

[bert]

Karlsson is coming off of his worst season in years, and will be asking for 10 million+. It's quite possible that his best days are behind him. Draisaitl is one of the best young centres in the game, has put up back to back 70 point seasons and has far more years of prime hockey left in him.

Your "elite" goal scorer has never hit 30 goals in a season in the NHL. He's good, but has gotten quite overrated. Pageau is a good player, that's why I would want him, but he's still a 3rd liner.

First of all Karlsson hasnt even been in the league for 10 years. Despite his terrible season coming off a brutal injury and a long playoff run still had the best ppg of all d men in the NHL. All this on a terrible team dealing with as much adversity as a player/person can have. This is after a season being considered a top 3 player in hockey. If you actually watched him this season you would have noticed he was back to his regular self the last 15 to 20 games. His skating was fine, injuries take time to get over believe it or not. Karlsson is also 27 years old, as a d man that has elite hockey sense and skill he has 7 to 8 more good to great seasons. Your evaluation is terrible.

Hoffmans shot is elite his speed is elite. Put him with Mcdavid and He scores 40. He is certainly worth more than Sekera.

Given top 6 minutes Pageau has outproduced both Zibanejad and Brassard. Both in 35 plus game sample sizes while being an elite two way player. Right now he's probably the 4th maybe 3rd best all around forward on the Oilers.

 

[cpsman]

A signed Karlsson definitely returns this and more and I’m an Oilers fan.

Keep in mind that a signed prime Pronger was traded to Anaheim for Lupul, Smid, and a 1st rounder (30th overall pick).

Moving Karlsson will require a few good pieces for sure, but I guarantee that Sens fans will be disappointed with the return.

Look at the these major trades of franchise or at least major players.

Hall ---> Larsson
Subban --> Weber (past prime, bad contract)
Dougie Hamilton --> 1st round pick, 2 X 2nd round picks
Kessel (in package) --> Kasperi Kapanen, Scott Harrington, Nick Spaling, conditional 1st round pick, conditional 3rd round pick

There are some examples where the return is decent, but I'd think that more often than not, star players end up returning less than you would think they are worth. It really depends on the situation, but if a team needs to get rid of a player, they are dealing in a position of weakness so you aren't going to get full worth.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Tell me a defenceman with the talent/skating/determination of Karlsson who wasn't an elite player until 35 years of age.

Not to mention that most defensmen are entering their primes at the age of 27. So what is this talk about Karlsson being near the end of his prime lol?

at the end of the day karlsson is a 27 year old generational defenceman. his value is waayyyyyyyyyyyyy more than draisaitl lol

Most defensemen are not entering their primes at age 27. Not good ones anyway. Most defensemen, like Karlsson, hit their primes in their early 20s, not their late 20s, and most offensive defensemen see their numbers decline after the age of 30. Very few are still elite at age 35. Very few. That's a fact, just look at the numbers. 10-15 years of an emerging 1C vs 7 or 8 years of Karlsson, probably 3 - 5 of which are of the best offensive defenseman in the world, and then the decline is likely to start. That's 10 more years of a 1C. Give or take. Plus probably 4 million extra cap hit for Karlsson, which is a huge difference maker as well. Nobody is running down Karlsson here. I know how good he is, and he's one of probably only 2 or 3 defenseman in the world I consider moving Draisaitl for if I'm the Oilers. Seems to me more of an issue with your valuation with Draisaitl than mine with Karlsson. Look around the league and see who offers a better starting piece for Karlsson than Draisaitl. I don't think you will find one. You might get more "value" among the secondary pieces and draft picks, but personally I'd rather have the better player than the gamble of draft picks.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Edmonton's future lineup:
ELC-Mcdavid-Draisaitl
ELC-ELC-ELC
ELC-ELC-ELC
ELC-ELC-ELC

Karlsson-ELC
ELC-ELC
ELC-ELC

Healthy scratch- Lucic.

and they would still be in cap hell/

 

[ManofSteel55]

Watch hockey more. That's my best advice. First of all Karlsson hasnt even been in the league for 10 years. Despite his terrible season coming off a brutal injury and a long playoff run still had the best ppg of all d men in the NHL. All this on a terrible team dealing with as much adversity as a player/person can have. This is after a season being considered a top 3 player in hockey. If you actually watched him this season you would have noticed he was back to his regular self the last 15 to 20 games. His skating was fine, injuries take time to get over believe it or not. Karlsson is also 27 years old, as a d man that has elite hockey sense and skill he has 7 to 8 more good to great seasons. Your evaluation is terrible.

Hoffmans shot is elite his speed is elite. Put him with Mcdavid and He scores 40. He is certainly worth more than Sekera.

Given top 6 minutes Pageau has outproduced both Zibanejad and Brassard. Both in 35 plus game sample sizes while being an elite two way player. Right now he's probably the 4th maybe 3rd best all around forward on the Oilers.

I watch a lot of hockey. You should pay attention to what trades look like in reality instead of in your fantasy world. The Sens aren't getting a player of equal caliber back for Karlsson. It will be a package, and one that fans won't like. That's the way it goes when trading a star player for futures. Your homerism is coming through in a number of ways though.

1) Karlsson was considered a top 3 player in hockey by very few. And it was only for a short time during the playoffs that this term was thrown around. He isn't even universally regarded as the best defenseman in the game, and saying he is a top 3 player in hockey puts him behind only McDavid and Crosby, as those are still the clear 1 and 2 (in whatever order, that discussion is for another day).
2) Hoffman has good speed and a great shot. You still can't call him an elite scorer when he doesn't score at elite levels. Ovechkin is an elite scorer. Laine is an elite goal scorer. Hoffman was around 100th in the league in goal scoring this year. He's a good offensive forward. Not elite.
3) Hoffman playing with McDavid might score 40. He also might not score 30, we don't know if the two players would even have chemistry. We've seen enough scenarios in recent years where "x player will score tons with Crosby" and it didn't always happen. That proves there are no guarantees.
4) I don't think I said that Hoffman is worth the same as Sekera. If I did, I retract it because I agree, Sekera's value is at an all time low because he wasn't good after returning from his injury.
5) 35 game sample size is pretty small to count. Pageau is good, I agree, but he's a 3rd liner, with possible 2nd line upside. He's good, but a complimentary piece. There is no way he is the 3rd best forward on the Oilers. Maybe the 4th, but that doesn't make him a top six forward - we only had 3 top six forwards in our lineup this year (McDavid, Nuge, Draisaitl). He only has to be better than an awful Lucic, an emerging but not ready Pulujarvi, and an inconsistent Strome to be the Oilers 4th best forward this season.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Karlsson is coming off of his worst season in years, and will be asking for 10 million+. It's quite possible that his best days are behind him. Draisaitl is one of the best young centres in the game, has put up back to back 70 point seasons and has far more years of prime hockey left in him.

Your "elite" goal scorer has never hit 30 goals in a season in the NHL. He's good, but has gotten quite overrated. Pageau is a good player, that's why I would want him, but he's still a 3rd liner.

Draisaitl's points per 82 games the last two seasons.....75.337
Karlsson's points per 82 games the last two seasons.....73.689

So we're talking about less than a two point difference in production, keep in mind Karlsson is a defenseman which is a position that is rarer to produce from, and that over the last two seasons combined the Senators have scored almost 80 goals total less than the Oilers.

So in two seasons combined, one very good, and one being one of the worst of his career, on average Karlsson is producing almost the exact same as Draisaitl while not having anything close to a McDavid to work with......Production as an argument towards Draisaitl is clearly not in his favour when being compared to Karlsson.

Anybody who actually watched the Senators would know that to close out the season, Karlsson was looking like his usual self. He had a rough first few months of the season as a result of the foot injury, but there's no reason to believe that it is the new normal for him.

The gap between Draisaitl and Karlsson in pure on ice value is huge. Adding Karlsson who'd be on the ice for nearly half the game could create a dynasty in Edmonton, even if it comes at the expense of Draisaitl.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Good point, I don't really see anyone giving up fair value for a winger that makes 8.5M

I still think it's a good trade for both teams. The sens actually have good wingers for Drai to play with, so he may be able to succeed as a C.

Obviously Karlsson not wanting to live/play in Edmonton is the dealbreaker

Has nothing to do with any of the nonsense you are talking about. The Oilers do not want to trade Draisaitl, simple as that. If Karsson is so good and has so much value then Senators should keep him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Draisaitl's points per 82 games the last two seasons.....75.337
Karlsson's points per 82 games the last two seasons.....73.689

So we're talking about less than a two point difference in production, keep in mind Karlsson is a defenseman which is a position that is rarer to produce from, and that over the last two seasons combined the Senators have scored almost 80 goals total less than the Oilers.

So in two seasons combined, one very good, and one being one of the worst of his career, on average Karlsson is producing almost the exact same as Draisaitl while not having anything close to a McDavid to work with......Production as an argument towards Draisaitl is clearly not in his favour when being compared to Karlsson.

Anybody who actually watched the Senators would know that to close out the season, Karlsson was looking like his usual self. He had a rough first few months of the season as a result of the foot injury, but there's no reason to believe that it is the new normal for him.

The gap between Draisaitl and Karlsson in pure on ice value is huge. Adding Karlsson who'd be on the ice for nearly half the game could create a dynasty in Edmonton, even if it comes at the expense of Draisaitl.

I'm not arguing against that statement at all. All I am saying is that given age, probable salary, injury history, the gap closes a bit. Then consider what teams would offer a better player than Draisaitl. As I've said before, I don't think it happens.

 

[Jamin]

I'm not arguing against that statement at all. All I am saying is that given age, probable salary, injury history, the gap closes a bit. Then consider what teams would offer a better player than Draisaitl. As I've said before, I don't think it happens.

Not to mention we have Drai longterm not for a year and then he signs somewhere else like Karlsson

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Edmonton's future lineup:
ELC-Mcdavid-Draisaitl
ELC-ELC-ELC
ELC-ELC-ELC
ELC-ELC-ELC

Karlsson-ELC
ELC-ELC
ELC-ELC

Healthy scratch- Lucic.

and they would still be in cap hell/

Chicago won 3 cups with a configuration like that.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Chicago won 3 cups with a configuration like that.

No they didn't. Their big guys weren't making bank until after they won the cups

 

[DEVILS130]

Not the type of deal Edmonton should be making

 

[ck26]

Adding Karlsson who'd be on the ice for nearly half the game could create a dynasty in Edmonton, even if it comes at the expense of Draisaitl.

I would wish a decade of McDavid/Karlsson/Lucic/ELC's team on Oilers fans, the tears would be delicious, but McDavid doesn't deserve that and I can't stomach the thought of EDM collecting even more 1OA's when that lineup only wins 22 games.

This thread is so packed full of stupid I think I might have cancer now. It's Jerry Springer and I can't stop watching.

 

[oXo Cube]

Edmonton is not trading Draisaitl and Ottawa isn't going to be offered a player anywhere near that good for Karlsson by anyone.

I don't know who it will be that steps up but this trade will be for a monster package of future assets like always.

 

[BowDangles]

Future UFAs do not return guys like Draisaitl/Klefbom in trade packages. The return is typically picks + prospects, sometimes the prospect is already in the NHL (think Puljujarvi) and in the case of Karlsson - the picks are very high picks.
If I am Edmonton I am all over the idea of trying to get Karlsson. If I had to have 30+ mil tied up into three players, I would want those players to be #1 centres and #1 defense man. (think Crosby, Malkin, Letang a few years back, their cap hit against the team cap percentage was probably close)

Edmonton has needed a true number one defense man since Pronger left and the fact that Karlsson is a RHD is all the better. Edmonton has way too many LHD right now.

To Ottawa:
Puljujarvi/Yamamoto
2019 1st
2020 2nd
Ethan Bear/Seth Jones

This gives Ottawa essentially 2 first round picks, a second and a young up and coming defensive prospect. Big haul for Edmonton to give up.

 

[Brian McDavid]

LOL a signed Karlsson would be worth more than any player on the Oilers excluding McDavid.

Which is pretty much the same for any team in the league? Pointless post.

 

[McSuper]

I just don’t know how EDM an fit him under the cap.

It easy to fit him under they cap if Lucic is moved . Move Klefbom as part of a package to Ottawa . Klefbom + Lucic is 10,167,000 so it opens up 10 million plus there would be more going to the Sen's opening up more cap .

 

[McSuper]

Future UFAs do not return guys like Draisaitl/Klefbom in trade packages. The return is typically picks + prospects, sometimes the prospect is already in the NHL (think Puljujarvi) and in the case of Karlsson - the picks are very high picks.
If I am Edmonton I am all over the idea of trying to get Karlsson. If I had to have 30+ mil tied up into three players, I would want those players to be #1 centres and #1 defense man. (think Crosby, Malkin, Letang a few years back, their cap hit against the team cap percentage was probably close)

Edmonton has needed a true number one defense man since Pronger left and the fact that Karlsson is a RHD is all the better. Edmonton has way too many LHD right now.

To Ottawa:
Puljujarvi/Yamamoto
2019 1st
2020 2nd
Ethan Bear/Seth Jones

This gives Ottawa essentially 2 first round picks, a second and a young up and coming defensive prospect. Big haul for Edmonton to give up.

Ottawa doesn't touch this and Edmonton can not afford to take Karlsson cap unless they move out cap . That will start with a 4 + million d man . I would like it to be Sekera but likely would be Klefbom

 

[BatVader]

Is Edmonton a stop over between Ottawa and Vegas???

 

[krt88nc]

Larsson/Klefbom, Jesse Puljujarvi, 2018 1st, 2019 3rd (NYI)

Erik Karlsson

So if I understand this correctly, Edmonton makes this move and has 3 players eating up $30+ million of their cap for the next 7 years!

Sounds like a great plan.

Hint, maybe you could trade for Carey Price too. Create the ultimate in cap inflexibility.

 

[BowDangles]

Ottawa doesn't touch this and Edmonton can not afford to take Karlsson cap unless they move out cap . That will start with a 4 + million d man . I would like it to be Sekera but likely would be Klefbom

Edmonton can make it work by moving out Lucic this year then someone like Sekera next year. But most likely RNH.

Judging off what Elliotte Freidman reported about the deadline deal between Vegas and Ottawa, a package like this is exactly what Ottawa would be looking for.

We need to remember that you still can potentially be trading for only ONE YEAR of Karlsson with the chance of resigning him.

You don't trade guys like Klef/Drai for ONE YEAR of a guy...

 

[BowDangles]

So if I understand this correctly, Edmonton makes this move and has 3 players eating up $30+ million of their cap for the next 7 years!

That’s a bunch of $2 million players plus three Stars. Sounds like a great plan.

Worked in Pittsburgh.... at the time the three of Crosby, Malkin and Letang took up a similar percentage of the teams total cap.

If your going to tie up a ton of cap in three players you want it to be in centres and true number on defense man

 

[TFHockey]

LOL a signed Karlsson would be worth more than any player on the Oilers excluding McDavid.

Your hate on for the Oilers is well documented.

Oilers do not make the trade as proposed.

Karlsson, signed to a contract we can fit under the cap, would command a massive return.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I keep seeing these insane offers and sens fans are never happy with them.

Can’t wait to see what really happens.

100% agreed. It’ll be so funny to see how the are devastated by the actual return