GDT: UFC 295: Prochazka vs. Pereira

[Taytro]

We have no idea if he will eventually fight the interim champ. All we know is that he's the champ and he's hurt.

There's been plenty of situations where the #1 contender doesn't get the next shot because of how the timing works out so if there's a brief period where Aspinall fights someone else in like April and then Jones fights Miocic in like July and then Jones/Aspinall happens next November it doesn't really seem like a big deal to me. I'm not advocating having two belts for a prolonged period, but if there's a short-term thing where they try to make this Miocic/Jones fight then I get it and I don't have a big problem with it. It's not my ideal path - would love Aspinall/Miocic and the winner fights Jones - but I get it and it's not a big deal.

Jones also just got hurt like a month ago, I don't know if it's Jon Jones hate or what, but people just need to take a breath here.

It's not hate it's just a very stupid situation the UFC has put themselves in. I don't get that "Jones is the champ". Aspinall is as much of a champ as Jones is, if not more. Why does Jones fighting Gane have more merit for being for the actual title than Aspinall vs Pavlovich? None of those 4 guys were the champ at HW, the UFC just decided which one they liked for the real belt. And they decided that the guy who hasn't ever fought in the division, wasn't ranked in the division, and was out for 3 years was more deserving than the best active fighters.

We've also seen this a few times where there interim champion doesn't fight the champion and as soon as the fight starts they strip the interim champion. Which is probably what would happen once Jones is back, they can't have 2 titles being defended in the same division, so whats the point of an interim champion at all if he just loses the belt and never fights the champ? They have a wide open opportunity for Stipe vs Aspinall. Stipe is ready to fight (he was going to fight a month ago). And he's going to be iced for another 8 months? Seems like Aspinall wants to fight sooner rather than later and UFC isn't obliging. They've put themselves in a corner giving Jones preferential treatment compared to what happens in other divisions when a champ is hurt.

Not to mention Jones said openly that he might retire after the Stipe fight... My opinion is if they had no intentions of Jones vs Aspinall as soon as Jones is back. There wasn't a point in making that fight an interim title fight. It's only for the marketing and serves literally 0 other purpose.

 

[m9]

It's not hate it's just a very stupid situation the UFC has put themselves in. I don't get that "Jones is the champ". Aspinall is as much of a champ as Jones is, if not more. Why does Jones fighting Gane have more merit for being for the actual title than Aspinall vs Pavlovich? None of those 4 guys were the champ at HW, the UFC just decided which one they liked for the real belt. And they decided that the guy who hasn't ever fought in the division, wasn't ranked in the division, and was out for 3 years was more deserving than the best active fighters.

No, their champ left so there was a need for a full title. Then their champ got hurt so they needed an interim title. Pretty simple. Nobody is arguing the merit of each fight.

We've also seen this a few times where there interim champion doesn't fight the champion and as soon as the fight starts they strip the interim champion. Which is probably what would happen once Jones is back, they can't have 2 titles being defended in the same division, so whats the point of an interim champion at all if he just loses the belt and never fights the champ? They have a wide open opportunity for Stipe vs Aspinall. Stipe is ready to fight (he was going to fight a month ago). And he's going to be iced for another 8 months? Seems like Aspinall wants to fight sooner rather than later and UFC isn't obliging. They've put themselves in a corner giving Jones preferential treatment compared to what happens in other divisions when a champ is hurt.

Again, you're acting like two titles are going to be defended for years or something. There might be a interim defense, the Miocic/Jones fight, and then one way or another the belts will be linked.

And yes, Miocic v Aspinall would be great. But if Miocic or the UFC doesn't take that fight I don't see how punishing Jon Jones is the answer.

Not to mention Jones said openly that he might retire after the Stipe fight... My opinion is if they had no intentions of Jones vs Aspinall as soon as Jones is back. There wasn't a point in making that fight an interim title fight. It's only for the marketing and serves literally 0 other purpose.

It's basically the same purpose for any interim belt. I guess in this case it actually holds even more value because if Jones retires it becomes the actual belt. And yeah, they needed a title fight last minute. Worked out for the fans, the UFC, and the fighters. Don't see the issue. It was the perfect opportunity for an interim belt. As far as interim belts go it's probably the exact time to have one.

 

[Taytro]

No, their champ left so there was a need for a full title. Then their champ got hurt so they needed an interim title. Pretty simple. Nobody is arguing the merit of each fight.



Again, you're acting like two titles are going to be defended for years or something. There might be a interim defense, the Miocic/Jones fight, and then one way or another the belts will be linked.

And yes, Miocic v Aspinall would be great. But if Miocic or the UFC doesn't take that fight I don't see how punishing Jon Jones is the answer.



It's basically the same purpose for any interim belt. I guess in this case it actually holds even more value because if Jones retires it becomes the actual belt. And yeah, they needed a title fight last minute. Worked out for the fans, the UFC, and the fighters. Don't see the issue. It was the perfect opportunity for an interim belt. As far as interim belts go it's probably the exact time to have one.

If Jones fights Miocic then I think the interim belt is stripped as soon as the actual title fight starts so they couldn't just promote Aspinall if Jones retires after the fight. At least that's happened in the past.

And you're right, we don't know if two belts are going to defended at all let alone for years. All we know is that the UFC gives Jon Jones has earned preferential treatment from the UFC, has used it to hold up a division in the past and they seem to be doing it again. They think it's offensive for Miocic to fight Aspinall for an interim belt and they'd rather stagnate a division. It's silly. I understand it but my opinion is that it's silly.

 

[pistolpete11]

And yes, Miocic v Aspinall would be great. But if Miocic or the UFC doesn't take that fight I don't see how punishing Jon Jones is the answer.

Nobody has suggested punishing Jones because Stipe won't take the Aspinall fight (which may or may not be true).

The point is you strip Jones if he's not willing to fight the interim champ when he comes back, whoever that is.

 

[pistolpete11]

If Jones fights Miocic then I think the interim belt is stripped as soon as the actual title fight starts so they couldn't just promote Aspinall if Jones retires after the fight. At least that's happened in the past.

And you're right, we don't know if two belts are going to defended at all let alone for years. All we know is that the UFC gives Jon Jones has earned preferential treatment from the UFC, has used it to hold up a division in the past and they seem to be doing it again. They think it's offensive for Miocic to fight Aspinall for an interim belt and they'd rather stagnate a division. It's silly. I understand it but my opinion is that it's silly.

That's a horseshit excuse from Dana. They aren't worried about offending Stipe. They've done a lot worse to reigning champs.

They just want Jones to fight again and they are afraid (or know) that Jones won't accept another fight unless it's Stipe and it's for the belt.

 

[m9]

If Jones fights Miocic then I think the interim belt is stripped as soon as the actual title fight starts so they couldn't just promote Aspinall if Jones retires after the fight. At least that's happened in the past.

Completely disagree. They aren't stripping Aspinall - that's the least likely scenario.

And you're right, we don't know if two belts are going to defended at all let alone for years. All we know is that the UFC gives Jon Jones has earned preferential treatment from the UFC, has used it to hold up a division in the past and they seem to be doing it again. They think it's offensive for Miocic to fight Aspinall for an interim belt and they'd rather stagnate a division. It's silly. I understand it but my opinion is that it's silly.

As I've said before - can we at least wait to see how things play out before we get mad about it? Jones got injured a month ago. Er don't know if he's out 3 months or out a year.

Nobody has suggested punishing Jones because Stipe won't take the Aspinall fight (which may or may not be true).

Read above. Sure seems like that's what is being said.

The point is you strip Jones if he's not willing to fight the interim champ when he comes back, whoever that is.

I agree in basic principle but I would need to know the circumstances/timing first. I have no problem with Aspinall v whoever, Jones v Miocic, and then the two winners fighting. If either winner won't take that fight they should be stripped.

 

[m9]

That's a horseshit excuse from Dana. They aren't worried about offending Stipe. They've done a lot worse to reigning champs.

They just want Jones to fight again and they are afraid (or know) that Jones won't accept another fight unless it's Stipe and it's for the belt.

I think they think Miocic would have gotten finished by Pavlovich/Aspinall as and they miss out on their biggest $ fight. But it's completely short-sighted because Aspinall/Miocic winner v Jones would be even bigger than just Miocic/Jones as it adds hype/credibility to the challenger. My hope is the UFC realizes this and pivots.

 

[pistolpete11]

Read above. Sure seems like that's what is being said.

The only place where I see him say to strip Jones is :

No, strip him. Having him retain the belt and not fight the interim champion immediately upon his return is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of (almost).

The whole not fighting the interim champ when he gets back is a pretty big part of the point. I don't want to speak for him, but if he were to fight the interim champ upon his return, I think Taytro would be fine with Jones keeping the belt.

But certainly he's not saying "strip Jones if Stipe won't fight Aspinall"

I agree in basic principle but I would need to know the circumstances/timing first. I have no problem with Aspinall v whoever, Jones v Miocic, and then the two winners fighting. If either winner won't take that fight they should be stripped.

I know, but this is the crux of the disagreement. Jones shouldn't be fighting anybody but the interim champ when he gets back. Injuries is the only exception to that. Poorly timed match making is not IMO.

I think they think Miocic would have gotten finished by Pavlovich/Aspinall as and they miss out on their biggest $ fight.

Maybe, but I think any Jones fight does pretty well, so I don't know how worried they are about the opponent. That's why I lean towards this being more about Jones only wanting the Stipe fight.

But it's completely short-sighted because Aspinall/Miocic winner v Jones would be even bigger than just Miocic/Jones as it adds hype/credibility to the challenger. My hope is the UFC realizes this and pivots.

Right. That's what I've been saying this whole time. There is a credibility issue if you still do the Jones-Stipe fight, so do Aspinall-Stipe. Either Aspinall becomes a much bigger name or Stipe wins and it erases all this nonsense.

There's a chance Stipe says no, but the only leverage Stipe has is if Jones says he will only fight Stipe.