Player Discussion Tyson Barrie II: To Extend or Not to extend? At What Price/Term?

[MessierII]

I wonder how many goals from McDrai Barrie had an assist on, cause i feel like i saw his name pop up more often than not when they scored.

As much of a step forward Nurse took, I don't think Barrie coming in and McDavid getting 100+ points in a shortened season is a coincidence.

Once Barrie settled in after 10 games, he developed some amazing chemistry with the core group. It'll be a huge mistake to let Barrie go without exploring all avenues to re-sign him. Even with Bouchard knocking on the door.

Bouchard wil be set up to fail, and we'll be up in arms about letting Barrie go.

When you play virtually all of your 5 on 5 time with Mcdavid and the rest on the top unit PP I don’t think thats being set up to fail. A lot of people are talking about replacing Bear with Bouchard. Would you rather Bouchard PK? Start in the D zone late while trying to hold a lead? Because those are the type of minutes Bear plays. By keeping Barrie and asking Bouchard to do what Bear does that is actually setting him up to fail.

 

[yukoner88]

When you play virtually all of your 5 on 5 time with Mcdavid and the rest on the top unit PP I don’t think thats being set up to fail. A lot of people are talking about replacing Bear with Bouchard. Would you rather Bouchard PK? Start in the D zone late while trying to hold a lead? Because those are the type of minutes Bear plays. By keeping Barrie and asking Bouchard to do what Bear does that is actually setting him up to fail.

Setting him up to fail is throwing Bouchard in as a rookie, to fulfill the role of a vet who's been in the league for 6 or 7 years and have no buffer to shelter in case he stutters a bit getting use to being pressures and keyed in on by the best hockey players in the world.

If you're expecting Bouchard to be on the ice at 5 on 5 with McDavid to feed him the puck, he's going to be going face to face against the best defensive competition in the entire league, and coaches would 1000% go in after the rookie to cut off the flow of the puck going up ice to McDavid, and they will force him to make bad reads, bad passes etc.

Having a Barrie around to learn and mentor from (along with Nurse, and potentially Larsson) and shelter him a bit at first would be far better off for Bouchard in the long term, rather than throwing to the wolves, hoping he won't sink and have no depth again incase Bouchard does hit a wall.

 

[Little Fury]

Setting him up to fail is throwing Bouchard in as a rookie, to fulfill the role of a vet who's been in the league for 6 or 7 years and have no buffer to shelter in case he stutters a bit getting use to being pressures and keyed in on by the best hockey players in the world.

If you're expecting Bouchard to be on the ice at 5 on 5 with McDavid to feed him the puck, he's going to be going face to face against the best defensive competition in the entire league, and coaches would 1000% go in after the rookie to cut off the flow of the puck going up ice to McDavid, and they will force him to make bad reads, bad passes etc.

Having a Barrie around to learn and mentor from (along with Nurse, and potentially Larsson) and shelter him a bit at first would be far better off for Bouchard in the long term, rather than throwing to the wolves, hoping he won't sink and have no depth again incase Bouchard does hit a wall.

Quality of teammates matters way more than quality of opposition and there's no better teammates than McDrai. Having Barrie eat those cherry minutes at a huge price tag will do nothing but stifle Bouchard's development and hamper the team's ability to add depth where it's needed most.

 

[yukoner88]

Quality of teammates matters way more than quality of opposition and there's no better teammates than McDrai. Having Barrie eat those cherry minutes at a huge price tag will do nothing but stifle Bouchard's development and hamper the team's ability to add depth where it's needed most.

He needs to prove/show he can handle the pressure and the minutes yet. The guy has barely played 10 NHL games.

 

[Little Fury]

He needs to prove/show he can handle the pressure and the minutes yet. The guy has barely played 10 NHL games.

How can he prove anything if he doesn't get the opportunity because his path is blocked by an older, high priced player like Barrie?

 

[yukoner88]

How can he prove anything if he doesn't get the opportunity because his path is blocked by an older, high priced player like Barrie?

Why does he need to take Barrie's spot to be successful? I'd rather have the depth to make the younger players force the issue.

 

[BarDownBobo]

When you play virtually all of your 5 on 5 time with Mcdavid and the rest on the top unit PP I don’t think thats being set up to fail. A lot of people are talking about replacing Bear with Bouchard. Would you rather Bouchard PK? Start in the D zone late while trying to hold a lead? Because those are the type of minutes Bear plays. By keeping Barrie and asking Bouchard to do what Bear does that is actually setting him up to fail.

It’s so weird to me seeing people make these statements. Yes, I absolutely do want to see Bouchard in those types of situations. I want to see Bouchard develop into a two way top pairing defender who is a force in both ends. If you keep Bear around for the sole purpose of sheltering Bouchard and give him only soft offensive minutes he’ll never develop that part of his game and likely tops out as another Barrie. If you’ve got Barrie still here you’re able to make Bouchard earn more offensive opportunity by working and developing the other side of his game which will lead to him being a better defenseman in the end.

 

[The Nuge]

I know Treena is an awful source but this is kinda my belief as to what could happen. Barrie will test free agency but if all the big money offers out there are from bottom feeding teams he might circle back quick and take a discount to stick around a place he fit in well and will be pushing for a cup in the near future. Which is ideal because then Holland is in the drivers seat when it comes to contract. A 5 year deal in the $5s is something that I could see working for both sides.

Yep. This is the guy that told his agent to get him a deal here for whatever we could make work. Of course he’s going to free agency, because if someone offers him 7 years at 8 million or something, he’s got to take it. But if an offer of like 5x5 from us is somewhat competitive, you’ve got to assume we’ll be having further discussions

 

[ManofSteel55]

How can he prove anything if he doesn't get the opportunity because his path is blocked by an older, high priced player like Barrie?

The best option might be to play Bouchard where Bear is currently, but it doesn't fix the "who plays top pair RD" issue. I'd be fine with Nurse - Larsson on the top pair, but I'm not sold on either Bear or Bouchard as the #2 RD option.

 

[Little Fury]

Why does he need to take Barrie's spot to be successful? I'd rather have the depth to make the younger players force the issue.

Because there's only so many minutes to go around?

 

[Little Fury]

The best option might be to play Bouchard where Bear is currently, but it doesn't fix the "who plays top pair RD" issue. I'd be fine with Nurse - Larsson on the top pair, but I'm not sold on either Bear or Bouchard as the #2 RD option.

I'd rather see Bouchard as 1rd than Larsson since his skillset is much better suited to the role.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'd rather see Bouchard as 1rd than Larsson since his skillset is much better suited to the role.

Based on what? Bouchard hasn't shown that he can do that. Not yet anyway.

 

[yukoner88]

Because there's only so many minutes to go around?

Starting out with sheltering Bouchard on the 3rd pairing inthe start of his rookie season and letting him learn and earn his way up the line up is unreasonable?

 

[Little Fury]

Based on what? Bouchard hasn't shown that he can do that. Not yet anyway.

And you won't know until you try him in that spot.

 

[Little Fury]

Starting out with sheltering Bouchard on the 3rd pairing inthe start of his rookie season and letting him learn and earn his way up the line up is unreasonable?

If the alternative is signing Barrie to a fat contract so he can keep leeching off McDavid, yes.

 

[yukoner88]

If the alternative is signing Barrie to a fat contract so he can keep leeching off McDavid, yes.

Wait.......if McDavid is benefitting from Barrie's play, how is that leeching?

And if Bouchard is productive playing behind lines 2 and 3 on the 3rd d pairing, isn't the the type of depth we've been craving to have for decades?

 

[Little Fury]

Wait.......if McDavid is benefitting from Barrie's play, how is that leeching?

Well, I don't think McDavid is benefitting that much from Barrie.

And if Bouchard is productive playing behind lines 2 and 3 on the 3rd d pairing, isn't the the type of depth we've been craving to have for decades?

The biggest depth issue is the forwards and so I'd rather spend whatever amount Barrie will cost there.

 

[Beerfish]

Well, I don't think McDavid is benefitting that much from Barrie.



The biggest depth issue is the forwards and so I'd rather spend whatever amount Barrie will cost there.

Well other than having a near historic year. Lets get back to having the likes of chris russell trying to get the puck to mcdavid.

Barrie made a big difference on this team and the fact so many people on here want to just go back to our team before Barrie by signing nuge and larsson is beyond bewildering.

 

[ManofSteel55]

And you won't know until you try him in that spot.

Doesn't it seem counter-productive to just throw him in that spot though? The guy was used as a 7th D/taxi squad guy last year. You don't think there is significant risk in destroying this player's confidence by throwing him in the deep end? I'd prefer to hold him back a bit, but that will require getting a really good #3 LD in case Klefbom can't go (which I am assuming is the case until we know otherwise). A veteran, but someone significantly better than the failed experiment Kulikov or Kris Russell.
Nurse - Larsson
Actual good #3D - Bouchard
Russell/Jones/Lagesson/Broberg/Samurokov - Bear

That third pair kind of frightens me as well. Too many young guys there who are prone to young guy mistakes, and Russell is a bit long in the tooth to play nightly in my opinion.

I'm not lobbying to keep Barrie. I don't think we can afford him, and I don't think he brings enough to warrant what someone else will pay him anyway. I am lobbying to not overexpose Bouchard by throwing him top pair.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Well other than having a near historic year. Lets get back to having the likes of chris russell trying to get the puck to mcdavid.

Barrie made a big difference on this team and the fact so many people on here want to just go back to our team before Barrie by signing nuge and larsson is beyond bewildering.

Let's not put too much stock into Barrie's role in that. He made a difference, but he also was a liability at times. For the record, I would be perfectly fine with signing all of Barrie, Nuge and Larsson. But Barrie is going to get ridiculously overpaid by someone. He is going to the highest bidder. Coming off of a personal best season. Whoever gives Barrie the contract he is about to get is going to regret it sooner than later unfortunately. If I'm wrong, and he wants to sign here for an affordable price, by all means, sign him up, but I think most are resigned to the fact that he is gone, and trying to focus on how to fix that, rather than just being okay with him going.

Barrie being a better puck mover than Russell isn't a good comparable either, for what its worth. Some fairly bad defensemen are better puck movers than Russell.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

Well other than having a near historic year. Lets get back to having the likes of chris russell trying to get the puck to mcdavid.

Barrie made a big difference on this team and the fact so many people on here want to just go back to our team before Barrie by signing nuge and larsson is beyond bewildering.

Yeah I think you are over estimating the impact Barrie had on that historic year. Aint no one stopping mcdavid this year Barrie or not.

And we are not replacing him with Russell we are replacing him one of the more talented offensive defensemen prospects in awhile.

 

[Little Fury]

Well other than having a near historic year. Lets get back to having the likes of chris russell trying to get the puck to mcdavid.

Barrie made a big difference on this team and the fact so many people on here want to just go back to our team before Barrie by signing nuge and larsson is beyond bewildering.

I'm not going to sell McDavid short by crediting Barrie for his performance when McDavid's scoring rates has been trending up every single season.

And even if Barrie did juice McDavid's numbers, that's not a reason to pay up for him when McDavid has no issues scoring and outscoring without Barrie.

 

[Little Fury]

Doesn't it seem counter-productive to just throw him in that spot though? The guy was used as a 7th D/taxi squad guy last year. You don't think there is significant risk in destroying this player's confidence by throwing him in the deep end? I'd prefer to hold him back a bit, but that will require getting a really good #3 LD in case Klefbom can't go (which I am assuming is the case until we know otherwise). A veteran, but someone significantly better than the failed experiment Kulikov or Kris Russell.
Nurse - Larsson
Actual good #3D - Bouchard
Russell/Jones/Lagesson/Broberg/Samurokov - Bear

I don't think you know what you have in him until you put him in that position and he'll be playing with two of the team's three best players.

What's probably more likely to destroy his confidence is being kept on too short a leash and jerked around the way he was this season.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don't think you know what you have in him until you put him in that position and he'll be playing with two of the team's three best players.

What's probably more likely to destroy his confidence is being kept on too short a leash and jerked around the way he was this season.

THis season wasn't ideal either. He needed ice time, but he should also be sheltered. 3rd pair, 1st powerplay unit is what he should be given to start with. Maybe 2nd pair, as he kind of paid his 3rd pair dues this year in limited action, but certainly not top pair right out of the gate.

 

[Little Fury]

THis season wasn't ideal either. He needed ice time, but he should also be sheltered. 3rd pair, 1st powerplay unit is what he should be given to start with. Maybe 2nd pair, as he kind of paid his 3rd pair dues this year in limited action, but certainly not top pair right out of the gate.

I think they absolutely f**ked up by not playing him enough this season. You'd have a much better idea of where he's at and where he needs work by seeing him in game situations.