Value of: Tyler Johnson 2 mil Retained

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

there is no market for tj. bb won't have the luxury to pick the best of several offers. tampa will be lucky to find ONE trading party, where
a) tj is willing to go and waive his ntc
b) the team is willing to take on 4 yrs of tj at full cap hit and
c) that team has the required cap space and doesn't need to send back salary

this combination, if available at all, will be pretty unique. therefore this trading party will dictate the price and tampa says yes or no deal for tj is happening. my ask wouldn't be foote. my ask would be sergachev. as a gm the risk of tj's contract blowing up in my face is too big, to not completely abuse tampa in a trade for him.

Detroit hits A, B, and C. Sergachev isn't a prospect. He's an NHL D with a ridiculous future. The whole trying to trade Johnson, Killorn, etc? It's because they want to keep Sergachev, Cirelli, and Cernak.

Tampa is not so out of options that they would take a bad deal involving Sergachev. Now, they're not great options, as they'd include still buying out Johnson, trading a guy or two, and still getting Cirelli and Cernak to sign cheap. But you're overstating the leverage a team has if you think they can pull away Sergachev with something that isn't so bonkers towards Tampa in value.

Your ask has no chance of being fulfilled.

 

[JTBF81]

You talk a whole lot for someone with nothing to back up your conviction Tampa has wiggled their way out of their predicament. Failed to waive Johnson, which was a noticeable loss for JBB. He’s got less than zero leverage on the TJ front. Signed Serge to a market rate bridge in line with similar players like Werenski (so a success but not a win or loss contractually). You’re over $2 above the cap with two good RFAs to sign that have shown no indication they intend to take well below market value deals. If Serge didn’t take a discount, why do you think Cirelli or Cernak will.

but keep trying to convince yourself that all these teams want TJ and will take a modest add like a low 2021 1st to move that deal. There isn’t much difference at all between a 4th or 6th round pick so whatever on Killorn. He’ll fetch a meager return. Be it a 4th-7th. Yippee.

this nonsense about what JBB is and isn’t willing to part with continues to amuse. JBB holds zero cards in trying to deal TJ, Palat or Gourde. He holds virtually nothing will Killorn either. He’s at the mercy of other GMs to find cap space. He has what they need. There isn’t a single team in the NHL that needs TJs contract. Nor Gourde. Killorn isn’t valuable until about 7 UFA wingers get signed before hand. And some of those guys may not get signed.

Any Lightning fan will counter pathetic worst case scenario options which people like you post on here like they're a certainty. Just like you were certain Serg would sign for 6+, that TJ wouldn't waive for anyone, that once again Tampa can't get it done this time...yawn, maybe one day you'll get something right about Tampa, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Not having TJ picked up off waivers was no big loss either, as Brisebois isn't stupid and knew it was a long shot at the time. He knew that some teams may be interested but those teams correctly knew they could get TJ with a sweetener. Tampa, in addition to the 1st, will likely have to add a solid prospect and perhaps another later pick depending on the trade, but it won't be Foote or Sergachev. You're also delusional if you think Palat wouldn't be highly sought after if he waived, and JBB would certainly not have "zero cards" in that negotiation.

I'd go on but I've wasted enough time with you on here. So back to ignore you go. When Tampa makes it work, again, it will be fun to watch you and others implode for the 5th or maybe 6th year in a row about taxes, unfair advantages for Tampa etc. And if you're right, finally, congrats, your average will have gone from 0 for 6 to 1 for 6, quite the accomplishment.

 

[JTBF81]

Factually JBB has two team to deal with Detroit and New Jersey. In order to sign Cernak and Cirelli he will need to move Johnson and Killorn and then it is going to be tight to get to 22 players much less 23 that he is going to need due to putting 4 ELC's along with Volkov and Joseph into the mix. There may be two of these six that perform, there will be injuries and the hold up on the taxi situation will be how to prevent teams from using them to circumvent the CBA when it comes to Cap. JBB has no leverage whatsoever now. Teams that have space can say heres what we want take it or leave it. And a 1st rd pick is pretty useless this will be a second year that young players miss most of a season and picks will not mean much. The clock has now about expired until after New Years. JBB has to be wishing for a delay in the start of the season more now. His best option now is the season to be canceled.

Please post your sources that JBB only has Detroit and NJ to work with. I've already done and seen several roster configurations where Tampa starts with 22 moving Johnson, Killorn and either Paquette(more likely) or Coburn. JBB is certainly going to wait though as you said, as there's no reason for him to finalize any trades that may be on the table until an official start date is set. Since that seems to be getting later and later, nothing is likely to happen until at least Jan. 1 as you said.

 

[JTBF81]

everybody is speculating. you are also speculating, that foote is off the trade board for cap space.

i also saw a lot of people speculating, that a rebuilding team like detroit should be interested in tj as a player. or that tampa's rfa have no intention to sign an offer sheet from another team, because they want to remain with the stanley cup champ. on the other hand it's speculated, that tj, gourde, killorn, palat, stamkos and mcdonagh, players with valid long term contracts, can be convinced, to lift their trade protection.

fact is tampa needs to cut salaries, as they are over the salary cap. fact is tampa has only added salary so far in the off-season. fact is tampa has two more rfa in cirelli and cernak, they would rather keep than let go. fact is the three contracts without trade protections, which get tampa under the salary cap, are point, sergachev and vasilevskiy.

Well since TJ has agreed to lift his trade protection that's no longer speculation but fact. I also heard from many that offer sheets were all but guaranteed to Serg, Cirelli, and Cernak, and crickets now. More than a few were all too giddy to post Serg won't sign for less than 6, maybe more!!! And they were wrong again. I've even seen people now talking on other sites that Tampa is going to attach Point to Johnson, so yes, there's a lot of speculation to counter. Also, given that Foote wasn't on the table in any previous big trade negotiations involving Tampa the past 3 years, and the fact that he's very likely to be either the 2RD or 3RD this coming season, very unlikely he's on the table now.

I never said I wasn't speculating or putting my opinions out there. I will continue to counter those who put forth worst case scenarios for Tampa(in your case thinking Sergachev is realistically on the market) with scenarios that are still not great for Tampa, but don't wreck the team. Since most on here are fans of teams not as good as Tampa, it's understandable ppl want to see Tampa get decimated, but given Tampa's track record of making solid deals (usually), I'll take my chances.

 

[McJedi]

Any Lightning fan will counter pathetic worst case scenario options which people like you post on here like they're a certainty. Just like you were certain Serg would sign for 6+, that TJ wouldn't waive for anyone, that once again Tampa can't get it done this time...yawn, maybe one day you'll get something right about Tampa, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Not having TJ picked up off waivers was no big loss either, as Brisebois isn't stupid and knew it was a long shot at the time. He knew that some teams may be interested but those teams correctly knew they could get TJ with a sweetener. Tampa, in addition to the 1st, will likely have to add a solid prospect and perhaps another later pick depending on the trade, but it won't be Foote or Sergachev. You're also delusional if you think Palat wouldn't be highly sought after if he waived, and JBB would certainly not have "zero cards" in that negotiation.

I'd go on but I've wasted enough time with you on here. So back to ignore you go. When Tampa makes it work, again, it will be fun to watch you and others implode for the 5th or maybe 6th year in a row about taxes, unfair advantages for Tampa etc. And if you're right, finally, congrats, your average will have gone from 0 for 6 to 1 for 6, quite the accomplishment.

TJ is still on your team so you probably shouldn’t be spiking that ball given you know it’s going to be ugly for Tampa if and when he is moved.

and Serge isn’t anyone I’ve ever had interest in. I was ready to offsheet Cirelli at a 1st round pick level. Wish Avs had done that but they’ll stole Saad instead. Saad on a one year $5mm contract playing for his next deal wasn’t a bad move by Sakic so I can’t really complain.

Tampa is still very much in a pickle and Serge signing an equivalent deal to Werenski wasn’t some win for you guys. It’s a market bridge deal for him. Cirellis agent saw that and is very likely seeking a similar deal.

you guys are very cocky for a group that hasn’t figured out their 2020-21 predicament by a long shot.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

TJ is still on your team so you probably shouldn’t be spiking that ball given you know it’s going to be ugly for Tampa if and when he is moved.

and Serge isn’t anyone I’ve ever had interest in. I was ready to offsheet Cirelli at a 1st round pick level. Wish Avs had done that but they’ll stole Saad instead. Saad on a one year $5mm contract playing for his next deal wasn’t a bad move by Sakic so I can’t really complain.

Tampa is still very much in a pickle and Serge signing an equivalent deal to Werenski wasn’t some win for you guys. It’s a market bridge deal for him. Cirellis agent saw that and is very likely seeking a similar deal.

you guys are very cocky for a group that hasn’t figured out their 2020-21 predicament by a long shot.

But I thought taxes were so important that no one gets market deals in Tampa ever? What is this new world?

Also who is compareable and what is Cirelli's market value in your opinion? Because whatever it is, we could calculate the real value from that.

 

[Byrddog]

Please post your sources that JBB only has Detroit and NJ to work with. I've already done and seen several roster configurations where Tampa starts with 22 moving Johnson, Killorn and either Paquette(more likely) or Coburn. JBB is certainly going to wait though as you said, as there's no reason for him to finalize any trades that may be on the table until an official start date is set. Since that seems to be getting later and later, nothing is likely to happen until at least Jan. 1 as you said.

I will refer you to Cap friendly to point out teams with ample space Jersey, Kings, Predators, Senators, Wings. Now you have to look at the stages each team is in Jersey has the most cap but only 16 players signed and they actually have a need for a center and a scoring winger. The Kings have 13 mil and like the Predators are teetering on a major rebuild the Kings youth movment has started and it is going to be three years until they are again competitive and it is doubtful are on either of Killers or Johnnys list. The Predators I know this team well they have no need for Johnson and could use Killorn who may well have them on his list but the fact the Preds lost 11 mil last year Poile has set an internal budget They own two bloated underperforming contracts in Johansen and Duchene adding Johnson on the wing at his hit does not make sense. The Senators well I doubt are on either players list and the team is in shambles and are in to a 5 year plan to rebuild. The Wings have the space and the need for a center and a scoring winger they have cap relief that Tampa surely wants but they have Yzerman as well who is not going to make a move unless his team wins the trade BIG I mean as in Johnson and the rights to Cirelli for there cap relief. if there was another deal there it would have been done now, Cirelli fots into Yzermans timetable for returning to playoff competiviness as well.

TJ is still on your team so you probably shouldn’t be spiking that ball given you know it’s going to be ugly for Tampa if and when he is moved.

and Serge isn’t anyone I’ve ever had interest in. I was ready to offsheet Cirelli at a 1st round pick level. Wish Avs had done that but they’ll stole Saad instead. Saad on a one year $5mm contract playing for his next deal wasn’t a bad move by Sakic so I can’t really complain.

Tampa is still very much in a pickle and Serge signing an equivalent deal to Werenski wasn’t some win for you guys. It’s a market bridge deal for him. Cirellis agent saw that and is very likely seeking a similar deal.

you guys are very cocky for a group that hasn’t figured out their 2020-21 predicament by a long shot.

Much of what you say is true I have to disagree with your View of Sergichev however. This youngster is dynamic and given the losses on defense since hoisting the cup he had to be signed and Cernak has to be as well there age and proven ability to play top 4 gives them more value in Tampa Mac is not getting younger and will be 3rd pair in a couple years these youngsters have been developed and kept in the lineup when they should have been sent down for development but the team stuck with them and they developed on the big team yes each still have a few warts but so did Hedman while he was coming up.

I agree with you about Cirelli also his agent is going to demand more than 4 mil that most posters think will be the top limit to sign him. He is however one of the pieces that I think we move to prevent having to put up to 6 ELC's on the roster because we just had to sign Sergichev, Cernak and Cirelli. The possibility of finding a home for Killorn, Johnson, Gourde, Paquette, Coburn all is a pipedream.

 

[Big Muddy]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I wonder how long before we start seeing some trade action? The puck drops for the season openers in just 23 days.

Teams need to cap compliant.

Tick tock.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I wonder how long before we start seeing some trade action? The puck drops for the season openers in just 23 days.

Teams need to cap compliant.

Tick tock.

I hear ya. What does TB do if there are no teams interested in a trade. Most , if not all are ready for puckdrop.

Wouldn’t surprise me if TB has no dance partner.

 

[HBK27]

I will refer you to Cap friendly to point out teams with ample space Jersey, Kings, Predators, Senators, Wings. Now you have to look at the stages each team is in Jersey has the most cap but only 16 players signed and they actually have a need for a center and a scoring winger.

If there is one thing the Devils definitely do not need, it's another center. That position is basically set with Nico, Hughes, Zacha & Zajac. McLeod is also fighting for a spot and could be the 4th line center if they want to move Zacha to the wing. They also just drafted Mercer.

Scoring winger could be more of a need, depending what they do with Palmieri and Gusev - two players that are expiring contracts that are younger than Johnson, but may not fit into NJ's timeline which revolves around Nico/Hughes/Blackwood/Smith/Holtz reaching their peak. At least to start the season, they appear set with Palmieri, Gusev, Bratt & Johnsson in the top 6. Holtz also figures to be in the mix by next season.

Devils only have 4 players on their roster in their 30's and none are signed for more than 2 years. I have no interest in taking on Johnson's cap hit for 4 years unless the sweetener is too good to refuse. They can easily afford the cap hit the next couple of years but by years 3-4 they should be a competitive team where a $5M cap hit for a 32/33 year old player that may already be in the midst of a decline in a league where the salary cap is expected to largely remain flat the next few years could certainly come back to haunt them.

 

[Byrddog]

If there is one thing the Devils definitely do not need, it's another center. That position is basically set with Nico, Hughes, Zacha & Zajac. McLeod is also fighting for a spot and could be the 4th line center if they want to move Zacha to the wing. They also just drafted Mercer.

Scoring winger could be more of a need, depending what they do with Palmieri and Gusev - two players that are expiring contracts that are younger than Johnson, but may not fit into NJ's timeline which revolves around Nico/Hughes/Blackwood/Smith/Holtz reaching their peak. At least to start the season, they appear set with Palmieri, Gusev, Bratt & Johnsson in the top 6. Holtz also figures to be in the mix by next season.

Devils only have 4 players on their roster in their 30's and none are signed for more than 2 years. I have no interest in taking on Johnson's cap hit for 4 years unless the sweetener is too good to refuse. They can easily afford the cap hit the next couple of years but by years 3-4 they should be a competitive team where a $5M cap hit for a 32/33 year old player that may already be in the midst of a decline in a league where the salary cap is expected to largely remain flat the next few years could certainly come back to haunt them.

Then they are removed from the equation of possible trading partners in my mind. Unless they want both Killorn and Johnson and both are willing to waive to go there. Which probably is not the case if they do plan on running the kids.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Taxi Squads and Taxes, save the day. All about that Tax and Taxi advantage in Tampa. #CancelTampa.

 

[HBK27]

I hear ya. What does TB do if there are no teams interested in a trade. Most , if not all are ready for puckdrop.

Wouldn’t surprise me if TB has no dance partner.

They might not for Tyler Johnson, unless they are willing to up the ante significantly on the sweetener that is attached to taking on his contract.

There are plenty of other avenues for Tampa to be cap compliant by the start of the season though, including putting Killorn and Palat on waivers and/or not signing the RFA's right away (which they surely want to avoid, so I doubt it comes to that).

One way or another they'll be cap compliant by January 12th.

 

[McJedi]

I will refer you to Cap friendly to point out teams with ample space Jersey, Kings, Predators, Senators, Wings. Now you have to look at the stages each team is in Jersey has the most cap but only 16 players signed and they actually have a need for a center and a scoring winger. The Kings have 13 mil and like the Predators are teetering on a major rebuild the Kings youth movment has started and it is going to be three years until they are again competitive and it is doubtful are on either of Killers or Johnnys list. The Predators I know this team well they have no need for Johnson and could use Killorn who may well have them on his list but the fact the Preds lost 11 mil last year Poile has set an internal budget They own two bloated underperforming contracts in Johansen and Duchene adding Johnson on the wing at his hit does not make sense. The Senators well I doubt are on either players list and the team is in shambles and are in to a 5 year plan to rebuild. The Wings have the space and the need for a center and a scoring winger they have cap relief that Tampa surely wants but they have Yzerman as well who is not going to make a move unless his team wins the trade BIG I mean as in Johnson and the rights to Cirelli for there cap relief. if there was another deal there it would have been done now, Cirelli fots into Yzermans timetable for returning to playoff competiviness as well.



Much of what you say is true I have to disagree with your View of Sergichev however. This youngster is dynamic and given the losses on defense since hoisting the cup he had to be signed and Cernak has to be as well there age and proven ability to play top 4 gives them more value in Tampa Mac is not getting younger and will be 3rd pair in a couple years these youngsters have been developed and kept in the lineup when they should have been sent down for development but the team stuck with them and they developed on the big team yes each still have a few warts but so did Hedman while he was coming up.

I agree with you about Cirelli also his agent is going to demand more than 4 mil that most posters think will be the top limit to sign him. He is however one of the pieces that I think we move to prevent having to put up to 6 ELC's on the roster because we just had to sign Sergichev, Cernak and Cirelli. The possibility of finding a home for Killorn, Johnson, Gourde, Paquette, Coburn all is a pipedream.

Werenski > Serge. And he signed for $5mm for 3 years. So Serge got a market deal at 4.8mm for 3 years. Also pretty much the same deal McAvoy signed with Boston.

If I’m Tampa, I’d offer Cernak and Cirelli 1 year deals to keep the AAV down and kick the can to the next year. Or else you’re paying more than 4mm for Cirelli and over 3mm per for Cernak.

 

[Byrddog]

Werenski > Serge. And he signed for $5mm for 3 years. So Serge got a market deal at 4.8mm for 3 years. Also pretty much the same deal McAvoy signed with Boston.

If I’m Tampa, I’d offer Cernak and Cirelli 1 year deals to keep the AAV down and kick the can to the next year. Or else you’re paying more than 4mm for Cirelli and over 3mm per for Cernak.

I get where your coming from and in a healthy league where the cap will increase it makes even more sense. That is not where we are Neither player is going to sign for peanuts maybe Cernak does 1 year at 1.5 but not Cirelli you also face the issue of what there next contract will cost. Now it does not make much sense to get them for 1 year and move a 5 mil player to squeek in this year and lose both of them next year anyway. Bridge deals with good players force overpayment on there next contract I look at Points bridge and wonder what is going to happen there? He will demand 10 mil the impact is going to be the window closing sooner rather than later. We have 5 players that take up 40 mil in cap long term and this does not include Point something is going to break.

 

[McJedi]

I get where your coming from and in a healthy league where the cap will increase it makes even more sense. That is not where we are Neither player is going to sign for peanuts maybe Cernak does 1 year at 1.5 but not Cirelli you also face the issue of what there next contract will cost. Now it does not make much sense to get them for 1 year and move a 5 mil player to squeek in this year and lose both of them next year anyway. Bridge deals with good players force overpayment on there next contract I look at Points bridge and wonder what is going to happen there? He will demand 10 mil the impact is going to be the window closing sooner rather than later. We have 5 players that take up 40 mil in cap long term and this does not include Point something is going to break.

Yes. You’ll need to lose some good players. Some core young players.

In what world does a 20 minute a night, top 4, top PK RHD take $1.5mm. He’s got the single worst agent in sports if he does that. Or he’s got LaBancs agent. Cernak is exactly the guy that should sign for one year if that is all that is offered.

Tampa needs to get to next off-season when they have more guys coming off full NTCs and they can part with some 1st round futures to get Seattle to take Johnson.

so give away Killorn, use his money to resign Cernak for two-three years and get some of the dry powder you need to resign Cirelli. Then move a Palat for the rest and recover some picks in that deal.

 

[JoemAvs]

Any Lightning fan will counter pathetic worst case scenario options which people like you post on here like they're a certainty. Just like you were certain Serg would sign for 6+, that TJ wouldn't waive for anyone, that once again Tampa can't get it done this time...yawn, maybe one day you'll get something right about Tampa, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Not having TJ picked up off waivers was no big loss either, as Brisebois isn't stupid and knew it was a long shot at the time. He knew that some teams may be interested but those teams correctly knew they could get TJ with a sweetener. Tampa, in addition to the 1st, will likely have to add a solid prospect and perhaps another later pick depending on the trade, but it won't be Foote or Sergachev. You're also delusional if you think Palat wouldn't be highly sought after if he waived, and JBB would certainly not have "zero cards" in that negotiation.

I'd go on but I've wasted enough time with you on here. So back to ignore you go. When Tampa makes it work, again, it will be fun to watch you and others implode for the 5th or maybe 6th year in a row about taxes, unfair advantages for Tampa etc. And if you're right, finally, congrats, your average will have gone from 0 for 6 to 1 for 6, quite the accomplishment.

Sounds like a ton of wishful thinking to me.
Just looking at capfriendly there are probably 4-6 potential trading partners at most considering that Tampa needs to atleast clear 4-6m in cap. The other teams simply can't offer you enough caprelief.
Of those teams atleast 2 are probably on a budget in Florida and Ottawa and won't be interested in any sort of capdump. The number is probably higher after COVID-19. There are still very decent UFA options out there and other teams need to dump cap as well to be compliant so there certainly will be a ton of options for these teams..
Its basically Detroit, LA, NJ and Nashville that might be willing to play ball. None of these teams actually need a 5m center aside from maybe Detroit really.
So yeah. JBB will have to pay through his nose and work some magic to make his guys waive their NTCs to get out of it.
It is certainly doable but I would imagine the cost will be astronomical...
Cirelli in Detroit behind Larkin could look very good. Zetterberg for Johnson+ Cirelli might get it done if TJ is willing to waive...

 

[JoemAvs]

They might not for Tyler Johnson, unless they are willing to up the ante significantly on the sweetener that is attached to taking on his contract.

There are plenty of other avenues for Tampa to be cap compliant by the start of the season though, including putting Killorn and Palat on waivers and/or not signing the RFA's right away (which they surely want to avoid, so I doubt it comes to that).

One way or another they'll be cap compliant by January 12th.

Putting both of them on waivers certainly seems like the next step.Will be interesting to see if they get picked up. Only one with a decent chance I think to get claimed is Palat. And even then I am not sure looking at the teams having capspace. Only Nashville looks like a decent bet to pick him tbh. Rest of the teams are rebuilding anyways and might opt for a cheap 1 year UFA instead. Its a risky move, though. Waiving 3 of your cupwinning core vets prior to the season might not go down well in the lockerroom...