Value of: Tyler Johnson 2 mil Retained

[CupsOverCash]

Aaanny day now Bolts... everyone is waiting!

 

[TBF1972]

Nobody admits when they are wrong on HF boards! ... At least 95% of the posters anyways.

That's wrong. Admit it.

The percentage is off. Only 94.758% don't amit, if they are wrong.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's wrong. Admit it.

The percentage is off. Only 94.758% don't amit, if they are wrong.

OK, I'm wrong but it's now 93.56%

 

[TBF1972]

OK, I'm wrong but it's now 93.56%

you are wrong, because i was wrong.

we are down at 92.362%

 

[Byrddog]

Home schooling is failing and the posts here prove the kids are not doing school work but arguing senseless topics.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Aaanny day now Bolts... everyone is waiting!

No one's waiting. Pretty much every team is ready for puck-drop save for 1 or 2.

 

[RogerRoger]

Killorn would have had 2nd+ value in a normal market, and although Tampa will now take a lesser return than they would have, he definitely is a good add for most teams. His most recent season of 26 goals and a near 60 point pace also has increased his value. He is also a very good 2 way player and PK'r. His aav of 4.45 is not overpaid for all that ne brings, so he should still be able to return in the 3rd or at worst 4th range given the market.

I don't believe Tampa is moving him and Johnson to Detroit in one trade anyway, as Tampa can get better value overall by moving him in a separate deal. Although Killorn has been primarily a .5 ppg player, his last season definitely adds to his value. If all Tampa fans hear is how Johnson now has negative value and is "declining" because of one down year, then Killorn certainly gets added value for this improved year as well.

72, 38, 45, 50, 47, 31
One down year? How much of a homer can you be?

 

[HoseEmDown]

72, 38, 45, 50, 47, 31
One down year? How much of a homer can you be?

77, 69, 66, 81, 80, 65
Those are the amount of games he played those seasons. He put up 283 points in 438 games for a 0.65ppg average which is 53 points over 82 games. He had one season where he was below a 40 point average which was last season where he was at 39, so one down year. He has the one season where he put up the 72 so if you take out the high and low he's a 0.60ppg which is 49 points a season. He makes 5M so he's right in line what someone with those numbers normally makes. Not sure how saying Johnson is still a good player makes you a homer?

 

[Menzinger]

At 50% retained hes definitely moveabke, but he still won't return much since teams will know Tampa is desperate.

Probably for a 2nd or equivalent prospect.

 

[JTBF81]

72, 38, 45, 50, 47, 31
One down year? How much of a homer can you be?

I would've responded to show how wrong you are, but Hose beat me to it. Just read his post for your edification.

 

[DFC]

72, 38, 45, 50, 47, 31
One down year? How much of a homer can you be?

I'm not sure what you think Johnson is, but when healthy, he usually gets 20 goals and 45+ points. The 72 points is obviously an outlier because the triplets were on fire. So it kind of is, yeah, one bad year.

 

[RogerRoger]

77, 69, 66, 81, 80, 65
Those are the amount of games he played those seasons. He put up 283 points in 438 games for a 0.65ppg average which is 53 points over 82 games. He had one season where he was below a 40 point average which was last season where he was at 39, so one down year. He has the one season where he put up the 72 so if you take out the high and low he's a 0.60ppg which is 49 points a season. He makes 5M so he's right in line what someone with those numbers normally makes. Not sure how saying Johnson is still a good player makes you a homer?

0.94, 0.55, 0.68, 0.62, 0.59, 0.48
That's not one down year, that going down for 4 years. If 5M is in line with what others of his caliber make, he wouldn't have cleared waivers. Saying that he had one down year makes you, at best, a homer.

I would've responded to show how wrong you are, but Hose beat me to it. Just read his post for your edification.

You should have gave it a shot because his take was laughable.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

0.94, 0.55, 0.68, 0.62, 0.59, 0.48
That's not one down year, that going down for 4 years. If 5M is in line with what others of his caliber make, he wouldn't have cleared waivers. Saying that he had one down year makes you, at best, a homer.


You should have gave it a shot because his take was laughable.

So half a point a game for 6 years in a row is him declining? If anything the one big year is the outlier and he's been a consistent player? Thanks for proving the point he's still effective? 5M with the uncertainty of a season even happening is one reason he cleared waivers, another is because GM's know they can get another asset from Tampa. It had nothing to do with him as a player.

 

[deca guard]

not sure if already posted in thread -

 

[deca guard]

not sure if already posted in thread -

zetterberg 1 year ltir contract for johnson and a pick . then johnson at 50% retained to a contender for a pick ?

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

zetterberg 1 year ltir contract for johnson and a pick . then johnson at 50% retained to a contender for a pick ?

makes sense to me

 

[JTBF81]

0.94, 0.55, 0.68, 0.62, 0.59, 0.48
That's not one down year, that going down for 4 years. If 5M is in line with what others of his caliber make, he wouldn't have cleared waivers. Saying that he had one down year makes you, at best, a homer.


You should have gave it a shot because his take was laughable.

Nah, the only thing to laugh at is your take on how myself and the other Tampa fans view Johnson. As has already been posted, he has had one down year in the past 5. By "down" myself and other Tampa fans on here mean based on his usual production, not one huge year or one stat that can be misleading based on games played. You can choose to look at his outlier 72 point season, but that isn't an accurate representation of his level. The stats are clear for his ppg vs games played, aside from this past year. The stats and arguments that very knowledgeable Tampa fans have already posted were very clear and effective in clarifying my original post about Johnson.

So to reiterate the key points of others, Johnson had one bad year and is far from a declining player. You can try and spin his ppg as declining the last 4 years all you want, that's looking at one aspect only. His points did not decline over that time and, aside from his one down year, has been a reliable ~20 goal, ~50 point player over the last half decade. Whomever ends up with him is going to get a 2nd/3rd line C/W who will improve them, especially for the price they'll be getting him at.

Your argument/position is weak since you didn't look at the whole picture and just assumed why he was supposedly declining and cleared waivers(not because he is worse than other ~5 million aav players, but because of the flat cap and because interested teams knew they could pass and get him with a +). Sure, his one down year also hurt his trade value, but his full ntc and the cap were much bigger factors. There's not much else to say really, as if you want to continue believing, incorrectly, that myself and other Tampa fans are homers regarding Johnson, well that's your problem. We'll continue supporting the Cup champions while you can continue with the mediocre Panthers.

 

[JTBF81]

makes sense to me

I'll admit LTIR is always a bit confusing to me, but wouldn't Tampa want to be exactly at the 81.5 million cap to maximize Zetterberg's 6.08 hit? If they move Johnson they'll be at 78.4+Zetterberg's hit, so then they'd have the ability to use just 2.98 of ltir after adding him, or am I mistaken? I thought if they were at exactly 81.5 with him then they could use the full 6.08 but I'm not sure. Thanks for any clarification!

 

[datsyukfan]

I'll admit LTIR is always a bit confusing to me, but wouldn't Tampa want to be exactly at the 81.5 million cap to maximize Zetterberg's 6.08 hit? If they move Johnson they'll be at 78.4+Zetterberg's hit, so then they'd have the ability to use just 2.98 of ltir after adding him, or am I mistaken? I thought if they were at exactly 81.5 with him then they could use the full 6.08 but I'm not sure. Thanks for any clarification!

The still have other moves that will get them there. Like signing their RFA’s

 

[Henkka]

I'll admit LTIR is always a bit confusing to me, but wouldn't Tampa want to be exactly at the 81.5 million cap to maximize Zetterberg's 6.08 hit? If they move Johnson they'll be at 78.4+Zetterberg's hit, so then they'd have the ability to use just 2.98 of ltir after adding him, or am I mistaken? I thought if they were at exactly 81.5 with him then they could use the full 6.08 but I'm not sure. Thanks for any clarification!

Yeah, and re-signing Cernak is very near that 2.98M figure. Then you have 6M (LTIR space) to pay for Cirelli, when you just delay the signing of him...

This would solve pretty big things.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I'll admit LTIR is always a bit confusing to me, but wouldn't Tampa want to be exactly at the 81.5 million cap to maximize Zetterberg's 6.08 hit? If they move Johnson they'll be at 78.4+Zetterberg's hit, so then they'd have the ability to use just 2.98 of ltir after adding him, or am I mistaken? I thought if they were at exactly 81.5 with him then they could use the full 6.08 but I'm not sure. Thanks for any clarification!

Zetterberg's cap hit would count towards our cap. So whatever the overage is with his cap included is given as LTIR usage. We can't use it until day 1 of the season. So trading Johnson and taking on Zetterberg would still open up cap, but not the full cap of Zetterberg contract. We would have to wait to sign Cernak and Cirelli until the season starts.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Well We're Waiting.

 

[RogerRoger]

So half a point a game for 6 years in a row is him declining? If anything the one big year is the outlier and he's been a consistent player? Thanks for proving the point he's still effective? 5M with the uncertainty of a season even happening is one reason he cleared waivers, another is because GM's know they can get another asset from Tampa. It had nothing to do with him as a player.

He was not a .5 pts per game players. He was above that and declined to below that. Yeah, his big year is an outlier but he still has been declining these past 4 seasons. 0.68, 0.62, 0.59, 0.48 That's declining. lmao your mental gymnastic are impressive. Go ahead and waive Hedman and see if the uncertainty and his salary prevent him from getting picked up. TJ isn't worth 5M and he's clearly declining.

Nah, the only thing to laugh at is your take on how myself and the other Tampa fans view Johnson. As has already been posted, he has had one down year in the past 5. By "down" myself and other Tampa fans on here mean based on his usual production, not one huge year or one stat that can be misleading based on games played. You can choose to look at his outlier 72 point season, but that isn't an accurate representation of his level. The stats are clear for his ppg vs games played, aside from this past year. The stats and arguments that very knowledgeable Tampa fans have already posted were very clear and effective in clarifying my original post about Johnson.

So to reiterate the key points of others, Johnson had one bad year and is far from a declining player. You can try and spin his ppg as declining the last 4 years all you want, that's looking at one aspect only. His points did not decline over that time and, aside from his one down year, has been a reliable ~20 goal, ~50 point player over the last half decade. Whomever ends up with him is going to get a 2nd/3rd line C/W who will improve them, especially for the price they'll be getting him at.

Your argument/position is weak since you didn't look at the whole picture and just assumed why he was supposedly declining and cleared waivers(not because he is worse than other ~5 million aav players, but because of the flat cap and because interested teams knew they could pass and get him with a +). Sure, his one down year also hurt his trade value, but his full ntc and the cap were much bigger factors. There's not much else to say really, as if you want to continue believing, incorrectly, that myself and other Tampa fans are homers regarding Johnson, well that's your problem. We'll continue supporting the Cup champions while you can continue with the mediocre Panthers.

If you keep adjusting his "usual production" downward, of course he'll meet the pitiful excuses of a standard that you are coming up with on the fly. It's not one bad year, it's a clear decline 0.68, 0.62, 0.59, 0.48.

He has been a reliable ~20 goal, ~50 point player over the last half decade. What a crock of shit, you really need to have your head really high up in there to consider doing something ONCE in half a decade to be reliable. 14/38, 19/45, 21/50, 29/47, 14/31 With that logic, Tampa reliably won the Cup this half decade lmao

Nah, my argument is backed by all the GM in the league who let TJ go through waivers without a second thought. He's declining, he's too expensive and there are tons of other 5M+ contract I'd take before him. You are not only a homer, but plain wrong considering the absolute insanity of calling him a reliable 20/50 for half a decade. But thanks for the laugh

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So half a point a game for 6 years in a row is him declining? If anything the one big year is the outlier and he's been a consistent player? Thanks for proving the point he's still effective? 5M with the uncertainty of a season even happening is one reason he cleared waivers, another is because GM's know they can get another asset from Tampa. It had nothing to do with him as a player.

Even with certainty of a season he would not have been claimed. At the time he cleared waivers a season was still expected. And it has everything to do eith him as a player relative to his caphit. TJ has egregious negative value. What’s worse, he has a ntc.

 

[JTBF81]

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