This is a lame comment, and totally wrong.
Luke Schenn is a good NHLer. Nazem Kadri is a good NHLer, Tuuka Rask is a VERY good NHLer. Morgan Rielly is a good NHLer. Carl Gunnarsson, Jiri Tlusty, Nik Kulemin, Viktor Stalberg, Anton Stralman, Alex Steen, Carlo Colaiacovo, Matt Stajan, Ian White are all good NHLers.
We draft just fine. It's the developing/keeping of those guys that's been the problem.
And many Leaf fans are sure impatient once again, with young guys like Tyler Biggs, and would like to see him gone, simply because he's not Milan Lucic yet at the age of 21.
It's not the player's fault where he is drafted. He is already a part of the organization and you cannot have backsies and repeatsies. Let the guy play a couple of years in the AHL before ripping him.
Discussing who they could draft instead, is a waste of time.
It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.
Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.
Really?! Lame duck?! Have you been around long enough to actually make this statement? Go back young man, go back to the late 60's and write down all the trades they have made, how many bad decisions with letting guys go to the WHL and then letting them walk for nothing. Write down the players they passed over for one reason or another and players they have drafted then traded. There are hall of famers there and cups that could have been won. I don't need to hear about Schenn, go back 30 years and come forward and start writing this stuff down.
It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.
Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.
This thread is embarrassing. When he was drafted he was basically guaranteed to be 5 years (23) until he has a sniff at the NHL, why not be patient and let these kids develop like Detroit does? I was as mad as anyone when we gave up picks to move up and get him, nothing you can do about that. Lets not pretend he doesnt have a strong upside though, anyone who watched most of the marlies games this year can tell you where he scored all 7 of his goals. He will make a living out of scoring goals within 10 feet of the net, he is really using his body more and more and got a lot more aggressive towards the end of the year, lets see if he takes another step forward. Only in Toronto do players have to make an impact by the age of 20, if not they are labelled a bust, you would think some of you would figure out by now how development works....
This is a big year for him, but its also a big year for many prospects, in many organizations.
Again, because you seem to have trouble understanding basic things, the Leafs have DRAFTED just fine over the years. They've sucked at developing and keeping the players they've drafted.
Back 30 years? Okay.
Al Iafrate was a great draft pick. So was.......Todd Gill, Wendel Clark, Vinny Damphousse, Mike Eastwood, Joe Sacco, Luke Richardson, Tie Domi, Scott Thornton, Felix Potvin, Drake Berehowsky, Dmitri Mirinov, Yannick Perrault, Kenny Jonsson, Sergei Berezin, Freddy Modin, Daniil Markov, Thomas Kaberle, Alexei Ponicreamovsky, Nik Antropuff, Brad Boyes.......and then the guys I mentioned earlier.
What, are you mad that we haven't had more #1 overall picks?
TOUGH TOOTIES.
It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.
Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.
Acrually go back young man and actually look at the drafts, take more than five mins, spend a couple of days on it. When you're done maybe you will have a better understanding.
Don't need to!! I already know. I was there! Yes, they made a crapload of mistakes but that's not what I was talking about. You said they couldn't DRAFT, and that's the point I argued, because it's lame. When they DID draft, they picked some great players at times. But TRADING has been their downfall, over & over. That's a whole different argument.
(And I'm probably older than you, Sonny... )
This thread is embarrassing. When he was drafted he was basically guaranteed to be 5 years (23) until he has a sniff at the NHL, why not be patient and let these kids develop like Detroit does?
The Leafs scouts and management simply ****ed up big time with Biggs by over-emphasizing size - an attribute that's already reflected in a player's performance, and useless if you don't have the skill to take advantage of it. They were so arrogant that they thought they could identify the next Lucic; that they were so smart the luck it typically takes to find such a player didn't apply to them. So they drafted the player 30 spots higher than he ought to have been, effectively trading a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning for a ticket with a 25% chance.
And even if Biggs doesn't pan out......so what? NEWS FLASH: Not all prospects pan out!! We draft a whole bunch of them and hope they do, but some might not. It's not the end of the world at all.
Kadri panned out. Gunnarsson panned out. Gardiner panned out. Reimer KIND OF panned out. Rielly is panning out. Guys like Gauthier, Percy, Biggs, and Nylander hopefully will pan out.
Biggs may or may not.
There are no guarantees, ever.
What are you talking about? He was ranked 15th on Bob's 2011 NHL draft rankings, NHL Central Scouting 22nd ,NAS International Scouting Services 31st, The Hockey News 20th.
Absolutely false. Nobody drafts a player in the first round with the expectation that they'll take five years to have a sniff at the NHL. Those types of late bloomers (e.g. Tyler Bozak) get drafted in the late rounds or not at all. If a player at draft time looks like he's at least five years away then 99 times out of 100 he's a bust. Biggs may still make the NHL as a 4th line grinder and journeyman, but any player who has trouble making the AHL full time at age 21 simply lacks the skill to ever be an impact player in the NHL, especially considering he was already physically mature for his age when drafted. Unless he's that 1 in 100 outlier.
The Leafs scouts and management simply ****ed up big time with Biggs by over-emphasizing size - an attribute that's already reflected in a player's performance, and useless if you don't have the skill to take advantage of it. They were so arrogant that they thought they could identify the next Lucic; that they were so smart the luck it typically takes to find such a player didn't apply to them. So they drafted the player 30 spots higher than he ought to have been, effectively trading a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning for a ticket with a 25% chance.
#22 NAS translates to 2nd round pick when you add goalies and international players, and Bobby Mac must have been smoking something to have him #15.
I guess the Leafs aren't the only ones to fall for a player with limited skills who only did well for his age because of being an early bloomer physically.
Either way, even if it was an appropriate pick at the time, it's pretty clear he's at 99% chance of being a bust right now.
It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.
Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.
They traded up to get the guy. I really don't care what you saw but trading up in the first round should make you better than a 4th liner. One of those pics will be a franchise goalie-get the drift?! Waste of pics again!
We did not Draft Gardiner...
Biggs is looking like a bust thus far.....it is ok to wait for a player to develop but they should at least be a full time AHL players while developing! It was a huge mistake to give away a draft pick to move up to draft him. You only do this for a can not miss player.
What does that have to do with anything? We traded for him while he was still a prospect. He started out for us "on the farm" and and then he panned out for us. Same diff, I'd say.
As for trading up to get Biggs........yes, I'd agree that it wasn't wise. But hindsight is always 20/20. And that was the guy they wanted so they took a risk. They also had the Percy pick so they likely felt they could afford to go a little riskier.