Prospect Info: Tyler Biggs?

[thewave]

I include Biggs in every trade proposal I can think up. I toss him in like bacon bits, the guys a tool and a bust and there's no recovery from that.

 

[daveleaf]

This is a lame comment, and totally wrong.

Luke Schenn is a good NHLer. Nazem Kadri is a good NHLer, Tuuka Rask is a VERY good NHLer. Morgan Rielly is a good NHLer. Carl Gunnarsson, Jiri Tlusty, Nik Kulemin, Viktor Stalberg, Anton Stralman, Alex Steen, Carlo Colaiacovo, Matt Stajan, Ian White are all good NHLers.

We draft just fine. It's the developing/keeping of those guys that's been the problem.

And many Leaf fans are sure impatient once again, with young guys like Tyler Biggs, and would like to see him gone, simply because he's not Milan Lucic yet at the age of 21.

Really?! Lame duck?! Have you been around long enough to actually make this statement? Go back young man, go back to the late 60's and write down all the trades they have made, how many bad decisions with letting guys go to the WHL and then letting them walk for nothing. Write down the players they passed over for one reason or another and players they have drafted then traded. There are hall of famers there and cups that could have been won. I don't need to hear about Schenn, go back 30 years and come forward and start writing this stuff down.

 

[Anthrax442]

It's not the player's fault where he is drafted. He is already a part of the organization and you cannot have backsies and repeatsies. Let the guy play a couple of years in the AHL before ripping him.
Discussing who they could draft instead, is a waste of time.

 

[daveleaf]

It's not the player's fault where he is drafted. He is already a part of the organization and you cannot have backsies and repeatsies. Let the guy play a couple of years in the AHL before ripping him.
Discussing who they could draft instead, is a waste of time.

It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.

Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.

 

[ACC1224]

It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.

Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.

How does that apply to anyone here?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Really?! Lame duck?! Have you been around long enough to actually make this statement? Go back young man, go back to the late 60's and write down all the trades they have made, how many bad decisions with letting guys go to the WHL and then letting them walk for nothing. Write down the players they passed over for one reason or another and players they have drafted then traded. There are hall of famers there and cups that could have been won. I don't need to hear about Schenn, go back 30 years and come forward and start writing this stuff down.

Again, because you seem to have trouble understanding basic things, the Leafs have DRAFTED just fine over the years. They've sucked at developing and keeping the players they've drafted.

Back 30 years? Okay.

Al Iafrate was a great draft pick. So was.......Todd Gill, Wendel Clark, Vinny Damphousse, Mike Eastwood, Joe Sacco, Luke Richardson, Tie Domi, Scott Thornton, Felix Potvin, Drake Berehowsky, Dmitri Mirinov, Yannick Perrault, Kenny Jonsson, Sergei Berezin, Freddy Modin, Daniil Markov, Thomas Kaberle, Alexei Ponicreamovsky, Nik Antropuff, Brad Boyes.......and then the guys I mentioned earlier.

What, are you mad that we haven't had more #1 overall picks?

TOUGH TOOTIES.

 

[sniper81]

This thread is embarrassing. When he was drafted he was basically guaranteed to be 5 years (23) until he has a sniff at the NHL, why not be patient and let these kids develop like Detroit does? I was as mad as anyone when we gave up picks to move up and get him, nothing you can do about that. Lets not pretend he doesnt have a strong upside though, anyone who watched most of the marlies games this year can tell you where he scored all 7 of his goals. He will make a living out of scoring goals within 10 feet of the net, he is really using his body more and more and got a lot more aggressive towards the end of the year, lets see if he takes another step forward. Only in Toronto do players have to make an impact by the age of 20, if not they are labelled a bust, you would think some of you would figure out by now how development works....



This is a big year for him, but its also a big year for many prospects, in many organizations.

 

[Liminality]

It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.

Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.

What are you talking about? He was ranked 15th on Bob's 2011 NHL draft rankings, NHL Central Scouting 22nd ,NAS International Scouting Services 31st, The Hockey News 20th.

NHL Upside - Has been compared to Los Angeles Kings' forward Kyle Clifford. Should be a tough, intimidating second or third-line winger who will battle hard.

Some players just don't pan out as planned. Management took a gamble to move up in the draft and it didn't work out, onto the next one.


The great power of hindsight is strong in this threads posters.

 

[Holymakinaw]

This thread is embarrassing. When he was drafted he was basically guaranteed to be 5 years (23) until he has a sniff at the NHL, why not be patient and let these kids develop like Detroit does? I was as mad as anyone when we gave up picks to move up and get him, nothing you can do about that. Lets not pretend he doesnt have a strong upside though, anyone who watched most of the marlies games this year can tell you where he scored all 7 of his goals. He will make a living out of scoring goals within 10 feet of the net, he is really using his body more and more and got a lot more aggressive towards the end of the year, lets see if he takes another step forward. Only in Toronto do players have to make an impact by the age of 20, if not they are labelled a bust, you would think some of you would figure out by now how development works....



This is a big year for him, but its also a big year for many prospects, in many organizations.

And even if Biggs doesn't pan out......so what? NEWS FLASH: Not all prospects pan out!! We draft a whole bunch of them and hope they do, but some might not. It's not the end of the world at all.

Kadri panned out. Gunnarsson panned out. Gardiner panned out. Reimer KIND OF panned out. Rielly is panning out. Guys like Gauthier, Percy, Biggs, and Nylander hopefully will pan out.

Biggs may or may not.

There are no guarantees, ever.

 

[daveleaf]

Again, because you seem to have trouble understanding basic things, the Leafs have DRAFTED just fine over the years. They've sucked at developing and keeping the players they've drafted.

Back 30 years? Okay.

Al Iafrate was a great draft pick. So was.......Todd Gill, Wendel Clark, Vinny Damphousse, Mike Eastwood, Joe Sacco, Luke Richardson, Tie Domi, Scott Thornton, Felix Potvin, Drake Berehowsky, Dmitri Mirinov, Yannick Perrault, Kenny Jonsson, Sergei Berezin, Freddy Modin, Daniil Markov, Thomas Kaberle, Alexei Ponicreamovsky, Nik Antropuff, Brad Boyes.......and then the guys I mentioned earlier.

What, are you mad that we haven't had more #1 overall picks?

TOUGH TOOTIES.

Acrually go back young man and actually look at the drafts, take more than five mins, spend a couple of days on it. When you're done maybe you will have a better understanding.

 

[Anthrax442]

It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.

Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.

and you guys talking about it will improve it how?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Acrually go back young man and actually look at the drafts, take more than five mins, spend a couple of days on it. When you're done maybe you will have a better understanding.

Don't need to!! I already know. I was there! Yes, they made a crapload of mistakes but that's not what I was talking about. You said they couldn't DRAFT, and that's the point I argued, because it's lame. When they DID draft, they picked some great players at times. But TRADING has been their downfall, over & over. That's a whole different argument.

(And I'm probably older than you, Sonny... )

 

[thewave]

Don't need to!! I already know. I was there! Yes, they made a crapload of mistakes but that's not what I was talking about. You said they couldn't DRAFT, and that's the point I argued, because it's lame. When they DID draft, they picked some great players at times. But TRADING has been their downfall, over & over. That's a whole different argument.

(And I'm probably older than you, Sonny... )

Trading absolutely has been their downfall.

Russ Courtnall for John Kordic anyone? Lol

 

[Semantics]

This thread is embarrassing. When he was drafted he was basically guaranteed to be 5 years (23) until he has a sniff at the NHL, why not be patient and let these kids develop like Detroit does?

Absolutely false. Nobody drafts a player in the first round with the expectation that they'll take five years to have a sniff at the NHL. Those types of late bloomers (e.g. Tyler Bozak) get drafted in the late rounds or not at all. If a player at draft time looks like he's at least five years away then 99 times out of 100 he's a bust. Biggs may still make the NHL as a 4th line grinder and journeyman, but any player who has trouble making the AHL full time at age 21 simply lacks the skill to ever be an impact player in the NHL, especially considering he was already physically mature for his age when drafted. Unless he's that 1 in 100 outlier.

The Leafs scouts and management simply ****ed up big time with Biggs by over-emphasizing size - an attribute that's already reflected in a player's performance, and useless if you don't have the skill to take advantage of it. They were so arrogant that they thought they could identify the next Lucic; that they were so smart the luck it typically takes to find such a player didn't apply to them. So they drafted the player 30 spots higher than he ought to have been, effectively trading a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning for a ticket with a 25% chance.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

The Leafs scouts and management simply ****ed up big time with Biggs by over-emphasizing size - an attribute that's already reflected in a player's performance, and useless if you don't have the skill to take advantage of it. They were so arrogant that they thought they could identify the next Lucic; that they were so smart the luck it typically takes to find such a player didn't apply to them. So they drafted the player 30 spots higher than he ought to have been, effectively trading a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning for a ticket with a 25% chance.

Trading two lottery tickets, to be more accurate.

 

[diceman934]

And even if Biggs doesn't pan out......so what? NEWS FLASH: Not all prospects pan out!! We draft a whole bunch of them and hope they do, but some might not. It's not the end of the world at all.

Kadri panned out. Gunnarsson panned out. Gardiner panned out. Reimer KIND OF panned out. Rielly is panning out. Guys like Gauthier, Percy, Biggs, and Nylander hopefully will pan out.

Biggs may or may not.

There are no guarantees, ever.

We did not Draft Gardiner...

Biggs is looking like a bust thus far.....it is ok to wait for a player to develop but they should at least be a full time AHL players while developing! It was a huge mistake to give away a draft pick to move up to draft him. You only do this for a can not miss player.

 

[Semantics]

What are you talking about? He was ranked 15th on Bob's 2011 NHL draft rankings, NHL Central Scouting 22nd ,NAS International Scouting Services 31st, The Hockey News 20th.

#22 NAS translates to 2nd round pick when you add goalies and international players, and Bobby Mac must have been smoking something to have him #15.

I guess the Leafs aren't the only ones to fall for a player with limited skills who only did well for his age because of being an early bloomer physically.

Either way, even if it was an appropriate pick at the time, it's pretty clear he's at 99% chance of being a bust right now.

 

[sniper81]

Absolutely false. Nobody drafts a player in the first round with the expectation that they'll take five years to have a sniff at the NHL. Those types of late bloomers (e.g. Tyler Bozak) get drafted in the late rounds or not at all. If a player at draft time looks like he's at least five years away then 99 times out of 100 he's a bust. Biggs may still make the NHL as a 4th line grinder and journeyman, but any player who has trouble making the AHL full time at age 21 simply lacks the skill to ever be an impact player in the NHL, especially considering he was already physically mature for his age when drafted. Unless he's that 1 in 100 outlier.

The Leafs scouts and management simply ****ed up big time with Biggs by over-emphasizing size - an attribute that's already reflected in a player's performance, and useless if you don't have the skill to take advantage of it. They were so arrogant that they thought they could identify the next Lucic; that they were so smart the luck it typically takes to find such a player didn't apply to them. So they drafted the player 30 spots higher than he ought to have been, effectively trading a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning for a ticket with a 25% chance.

I highly, highly doubt you watched him play in his draft year with the development program. He played with 2 high end skill players and actually made them play better by opening up space and cycling the puck well. when the Leafs drafted him, the idea was to have him play second line and open up space for skill players.

So what if he busts and the scouts mess up, at least they took a risk, more often than not it will pay off.

Did you look at the draft rankings at all? in Hindsight you think he should have been picked at around 60, when he was clearly rated around 20-30.

As for the 5 year comment, lots of teams think that way. They are looking at what a player projects as a finished product, not how soon the impact for said player will be, if he impacts the team sooner than later, its just a bonus.

 

[sniper81]

#22 NAS translates to 2nd round pick when you add goalies and international players, and Bobby Mac must have been smoking something to have him #15.

I guess the Leafs aren't the only ones to fall for a player with limited skills who only did well for his age because of being an early bloomer physically.

Either way, even if it was an appropriate pick at the time, it's pretty clear he's at 99% chance of being a bust right now.

You clearly did not watch him at all when he played in the GTHL, he has hands and can score. Scouts watch these kids at 14 and 15 to try and get a proper read on them going forward. You are suggesting the Leafs didnt do their homework on this pick and I can tell you that is completely false.

 

[Zonk]

It's the organisations fault where he was drafted. He was a third or fourth round player, not trade two pics in the top 50 for him.

Not a waste if time. Until you understand your mistakes and learn from them you will never accomplish a goal. They make the same mistakes year after year.

I think the previous poster was saying that the Leafs used to make the same mistakes year after year of rushing the development of players, giving up on them too soon, and then trading them away. Is it possible that they have learned from their mistakes and are now willing to give prospects more time to develop? Some players will still turn out to be busts, but it is better to wait a bit longer to confirm that they will be busts instead of trading them away and watching them develop for another team.

 

[Kubus]

I still think it's way to early to give up on the kid. The guy is a decent skater, strong as hell, and got decent hands. His first full season as a pro did not go as planned, but at 21 it's a bit to early to be calling him a bust. He might not develop into a top 6 player, but he can very easily develop into a very good 3rd liner.

Personally, I still think he can develop into a guy that can get himself to the front of the net, get the rebounds, and drive the opposition crazy.

 

[indigobuffalo]

They traded up to get the guy. I really don't care what you saw but trading up in the first round should make you better than a 4th liner. One of those pics will be a franchise goalie-get the drift?! Waste of pics again!

I totally agree with you because I too have never learned what the word floor means, either.

 

[Holymakinaw]

We did not Draft Gardiner...

Biggs is looking like a bust thus far.....it is ok to wait for a player to develop but they should at least be a full time AHL players while developing! It was a huge mistake to give away a draft pick to move up to draft him. You only do this for a can not miss player.

What does that have to do with anything? We traded for him while he was still a prospect. He started out for us "on the farm" and and then he panned out for us. Same diff, I'd say.

As for trading up to get Biggs........yes, I'd agree that it wasn't wise. But hindsight is always 20/20. And that was the guy they wanted so they took a risk. They also had the Percy pick so they likely felt they could afford to go a little riskier.

 

[diceman934]

What does that have to do with anything? We traded for him while he was still a prospect. He started out for us "on the farm" and and then he panned out for us. Same diff, I'd say.

As for trading up to get Biggs........yes, I'd agree that it wasn't wise. But hindsight is always 20/20. And that was the guy they wanted so they took a risk. They also had the Percy pick so they likely felt they could afford to go a little riskier.

Wow, please at least know what you are posting....Gardiner made the Leafs out of camp in his first season....so he never started out on the farm.

Then the whole discussion is about draft picks of ours.....but hey do not let facts get in the way of you posting things that are not correct!

 

[glucker]

How does that apply to anyone here?

Wait, you're not Nonis?