Player Discussion Tuukka Rask - Part IV

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LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,548
22,082
Central MA
I just can't take you seriously at all when you say he hasn't been underperforming at all the past two and a half seasons. It's very easy to just blame it on not having a good team in front of him, but if you actually watched the games, he really was not playing well. There were a lot of games that were lost, and a lot of goals given up, that were not because of the team in front of him. He was left out to dry more often than he would've been with a good team in front of him, of course. But he was bad, especially for what he gets paid, which like it or not, is a factor when evaluating a player's performance.

He definitely did make some big stops in the 3rd, but the point of "if it weren't for Rask they wouldn't have gotten a point" is really kind of a lazy one when he gives up the weak goals he gave up. Because it's not really based on anything. If someone else was in there, maybe they don't give up those 3 awful goals and they don't have to make those saves in the 3rd because it's a completely different game. Or maybe if it were someone else they give up 10 goals and it goes the other way. But "if it weren't for Rask-" means nothing when he's arguably the biggest reason you lost.

He definitely did help get a point. I wouldn't say he totally locked in "when it counted", because that tying goal in the 3rd was "when it counted" and that was the worst one of the night by far. He was good after that and I don't fault him for the OT goal, but when you do the "if it weren't for Rask they don't get a point, I just can't agree with that because it's really not based on anything.

Every argument you make here, you continue to use this line as if you're the only person on the site that has ever watched the games. It's as if you think the team only broadcasts the games exclusively to you. They don't. Sorry to burst your bubble on that though. :naughty:

For the record, I think it's a garbage line and a garbage argument because you're dismissing anyone that doesn't agree with you out of hand and pretending that they don't watch. No Bueno.
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
13,858
18,879
Las Vegas
For that one magical Stanley Cup run, Thomas was as elite as a goalie can get!

200.gif
RubCOoWSBgAvHOsrnLPYwpOJh4C3WH4g6By3awMENYdiYAZ3A0VaGUZTv3PLAJ49SDslq_5m=s0-d

at the risk of being facetious....Rask had slightly better stats than Thomas in the 2013 Cup run.

Timmy: 1.98/.940
Tuukka: 1.88/.940

I still say the Bruins win in '13 if wasnt for Chara barely being able to walk and Bergeron having a separated shoulder and a hole in his lung
 
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BruinsFanSince94

The Perfect Fan ™
Sep 28, 2017
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at the risk of being facetious....Rask had slightly better stats than Thomas in the 2013 Cup run.

Timmy: 1.98/.940
Tuukka: 1.88/.940

I still say the Bruins win in '13 if wasnt for Chara barely being able to walk and Bergeron having a separated shoulder and a hole in his lung

And Daugavins doesn't miss a wide open net.
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
74,621
53,197
My seats are second row behind bruins net first and third often on aisle so I have just about the best vantage in arena to watch goalies

Rask is one of the best I've ever seen from Glen Hall to Johnny Bower to Cheevers. He's that good.

I have not put a list together but I would grade him descriptively as very good A-/B+ and elite.

I'm only giving my opinion I understand the 80/20 rule and the 20% are weighing in don't like Rask.

It's to bad we lost HF Boards threads from March 2011 it was proven the most hysterical bunch of jubberish in 20 years here including a Tim Thomas can't win the big one and needs to go. That was just one of several that popped up as Boston was losing 6 of 7 in March 3 months before the Cup and posters were melting down faster than the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz.

It was gold
 

Chief Nine

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May 31, 2015
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Every argument you make here, you continue to use this line as if you're the only person on the site that has ever watched the games. It's as if you think the team only broadcasts the games exclusively to you. They don't. Sorry to burst your bubble on that though. :naughty:

For the record, I think it's a garbage line and a garbage argument because you're dismissing anyone that doesn't agree with you out of hand and pretending that they don't watch. No Bueno.

I'm beginning to come around to the idea that maybe, just maybe, this might actually be happening for a few select posters on this board. Seems they are getting an exclusive feed that perhaps the rest of us pagans don't have access to.
 

rocketdan9

Registered User
Feb 5, 2009
20,413
13,210
For that one magical Stanley Cup run, Thomas was as elite as a goalie can get!

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RubCOoWSBgAvHOsrnLPYwpOJh4C3WH4g6By3awMENYdiYAZ3A0VaGUZTv3PLAJ49SDslq_5m=s0-d
One of the best goalie performances ever in one season

He was a leader and instilled confidence in the team

A goalie who is mentally weak or gets rattled easily....transfers this unstability onto the rest of the team
 

BruinsFanSince94

The Perfect Fan ™
Sep 28, 2017
32,709
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New England
I'm beginning to come around to the idea that maybe, just maybe, this might actually be happening for a few select posters on this board. Seems they are getting an exclusive feed that perhaps the rest of us pagans don't have access to.

I think some of these posters have secret broadcasts that focus only on Torey Krug, Tuukka Rask, Peter Cehlarik, Ryan Spooner...Oh, and have access to Tuukka Rask's psychology sessions....Hence, why he "doesn't care" and such.
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
74,621
53,197
One of the best goalie performances ever in one season

He was a leader and instilled confidence in the team

A goalie who is mentally weak or gets rattled easily....transfers this unstability onto the rest of the team
Thomas was beaten like a piñata with Threads about his play until game 3 of the 2011 Stanley Cup playoffs

It's a shame we can't dig up those old threads to see the vile hurled at this guy

Tuukka Rask may be moody but his teammates I've heard think he's elite

Your not going to accept it I get it - 20% or less here feel that way and you guys are the vocal minority

same group every time

I could list the posters before they even post after a bad game

Then Rask gets hot the leave and pop out next bad game
 

Chief Nine

Registered User
May 31, 2015
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Thomas was beaten like a piñata with Threads about his play until game 3 of the 2011 Stanley Cup playoffs

It's a shame we can't dig up those old threads to see the vile hurled at this guy

Tuukka Rask may be moody but his teammates I've heard think he's elite

Your not going to accept it I get it - 20% or less here feel that way and you guys are the vocal minority

same group every time

I could list the posters before they even post after a bad game

Then Rask gets hot the leave and pop out next bad game

You could say the same thing about Tom Brady. Pro athletes, especially elite ones are uber competitors and might not be a whole lotta fun to be around sometimes. (Hey that might even apply to lots of other highly competitive people too!)
 

pineapplestastegood

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
487
197
Every argument you make here, you continue to use this line as if you're the only person on the site that has ever watched the games. It's as if you think the team only broadcasts the games exclusively to you. They don't. Sorry to burst your bubble on that though. :naughty:

For the record, I think it's a garbage line and a garbage argument because you're dismissing anyone that doesn't agree with you out of hand and pretending that they don't watch. No Bueno.
I'm not dismissing anyone, anyone is free to have their opinion. It's not a garbage line. I'm not going to put together a lowlight reel of the worst of Tuukka Rask, I wish I had the time, but I don't. But a lot of people agree with me.

EVEN if you just wanted to go purely by the stats, the most recent sample size of the past 2 and a half years or so, Rask has been mediocre at best, as the 3rd highest paid goalie in the league.

If you want to go back through the entire sample size of his entire career, and use those numbers to average everything out, then fine. But you then have to take into account that he has two of the all time worst playoff meltdowns in the history of sports on his resume during those times as well.
 
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Chief Nine

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May 31, 2015
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I'm not dismissing anyone, anyone is free to have their opinion. It's not a garbage line. I'm not going to put together a lowlight reel of the worst of Tuukka Rask, I wish I had the time, but I don't. But a lot of people agree with me.

EVEN if you just wanted to go purely by the stats, the most recent sample size of the past 2 and a half years or so, Rask has been mediocre at best, as the 3rd highest paid goalie in the league.

If you want to go back through the entire sample size of his entire career, and use those numbers to average everything out, then fine. But you then have to take into account that he has two of the all time worst playoff meltdowns in the history of sports on his resume during those times as well.

There’s another card you play all the time:

“I wish I had the time, but I don't.”

That doesn’t help any of your arguments.
 
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pineapplestastegood

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
487
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There’s another card you play all the time:

“I wish I had the time, but I don't.”

That doesn’t help any of your arguments.
It's not a card, who the hell has the time to do that? There are plenty of people who agree with me, so it's not like its some contrarian unfounded take.
 

22Brad Park

Registered User
Nov 23, 2008
47,054
25,969
Calgary AB
My seats are second row behind bruins net first and third often on aisle so I have just about the best vantage in arena to watch goalies

Rask is one of the best I've ever seen from Glen Hall to Johnny Bower to Cheevers. He's that good.

I have not put a list together but I would grade him descriptively as very good A-/B+ and elite.

I'm only giving my opinion I understand the 80/20 rule and the 20% are weighing in don't like Rask.

It's to bad we lost HF Boards threads from March 2011 it was proven the most hysterical bunch of jubberish in 20 years here including a Tim Thomas can't win the big one and needs to go. That was just one of several that popped up as Boston was losing 6 of 7 in March 3 months before the Cup and posters were melting down faster than the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz.

It was gold


Great post and be quite honest Tim Thomas scared the living daylights out of me.Never forget that game 7 goal he let in to Scott Walker to eliminate Bruins.But in the end he got it done and proved me and many others wrong including lots who work in NHL..Rask is a better goalie though in my mind and I will stand by them comments.Cup or not.
 
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Chief Nine

Registered User
May 31, 2015
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It's not a card, who the hell has the time to do that? There are plenty of people who agree with me, so it's not like its some contrarian unfounded take.

Well it’s evident that you like to argue which is your deal. Whatever floats your boat. Trouble is, you just post angry and don’t back up what you say and then lash out at anyone who calls you out on it. You wanna post hot takes on this board, expect to be challenged.

And that absolutely is a card. You get called out and then you play the “I don’t have time to look up whatever” game. Pretty easy for anyone to shoot that stuff down.
 
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pineapplestastegood

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Oct 4, 2017
487
197
Well it’s evident that you like to argue which is your deal. Whatever floats your boat. Trouble is, you just post angry and don’t back up what you say and then lash out at anyone who calls you out on it. You wanna post hot takes on this board, expect to be challenged.

And that absolutely is a card. You get called out and then you play the “I don’t have time to look up whatever” game. Pretty easy for anyone to shoot that stuff down.
I just state my opinion and then people argue with me. My takes aren't really hot. People can challenge anything they want, I welcome debate. I'm not the one trying to silence others for their opinions (not saying you're doing that, but others do). I don't lash out on anyone, I get inundated with flaming and trolling and I never take the bait, I never insult anyone. Just because some of my posts are negative, doesn't mean they're angry. I find more anger in the posts of people who refuse to acknowledge any flaw the team might have (again not saying you're necessarily doing that).

People can shoot it down if they want, I don't care. It's just my opinion. I'm not going to comb through highlights of Rask's entire career and pick out a bunch of bad moments. Anyone who is objective knows what we're talking about, whether they want to admit it or not. Whether they think that he's worth his salary anyway, despite those flaws, that's their opinion.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,548
22,082
Central MA
I'm not dismissing anyone, anyone is free to have their opinion. It's not a garbage line. I'm not going to put together a lowlight reel of the worst of Tuukka Rask, I wish I had the time, but I don't. But a lot of people agree with me.

EVEN if you just wanted to go purely by the stats, the most recent sample size of the past 2 and a half years or so, Rask has been mediocre at best, as the 3rd highest paid goalie in the league.

If you want to go back through the entire sample size of his entire career, and use those numbers to average everything out, then fine. But you then have to take into account that he has two of the all time worst playoff meltdowns in the history of sports on his resume during those times as well.

Yes it is. You immediately paint anyone who disagrees with your view with the broad brush of having not seen any of the games. It's incredibly dismissive and very arrogant to do so, IMO.

But let's get to the meat of your post. You seem to be thinking I'm arguing against you about Rask here. I'm not. I'm arguing with you about sub par, condescending, generally misguided, and factually incorrect posts you make over and over again. That's far worse than the agenda driven nonsense you're saying about Rask. If you're making these kinds of arguments about Rask, I'd love to hear what you have to say about Rinne. Or Lundqvist. Or any number of the other top goalies over the same period of time as Rask.

You say even if you wanted to go by purely stats, but you never actually cite any of of them. So go ahead and do some comps and get back to me. Look at what are generally considered the top goalies over the last 10 years and see where Rask ranks among his peers. I'll be right here waiting.
 

pineapplestastegood

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
487
197
Yes it is. You immediately paint anyone who disagrees with your view with the broad brush of having not seen any of the games. It's incredibly dismissive and very arrogant to do so, IMO.

But let's get to the meat of your post. You seem to be thinking I'm arguing against you about Rask here. I'm not. I'm arguing with you about sub par, condescending, generally misguided, and factually incorrect posts you make over and over again. That's far worse than the agenda driven nonsense you're saying about Rask. If you're making these kinds of arguments about Rask, I'd love to hear what you have to say about Rinne. Or Lundqvist. Or any number of the other top goalies over the same period of time as Rask.

You say even if you wanted to go by purely stats, but you never actually cite any of of them. So go ahead and do some comps and get back to me. Look at what are generally considered the top goalies over the last 10 years and see where Rask ranks among his peers. I'll be right here waiting.
I feel exactly the same way about Rinne and Lundqvist as I do Rask. None of them are worth their salaries.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,548
22,082
Central MA
I feel exactly the same way about Rinne and Lundqvist as I do Rask. None of them are worth their salaries.

Is anyone really? This is literally a straw man argument because nobody is really worth millions of dollars to play a child's game. So again, still waiting for the stats you talked about that demonstrated Rask is mediocre.

But since we both know you won't actually provide that evidence, whom would you prefer in net for the Bruins? And at what salary would someone be deemed worth it, in your esteemed opinion?
 

pineapplestastegood

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
487
197
Is anyone really? This is literally a straw man argument because nobody is really worth millions of dollars to play a child's game. So again, still waiting for the stats you talked about that demonstrated Rask is mediocre.

But since we both know you won't actually provide that evidence, whom would you prefer in net for the Bruins? And at what salary would someone be deemed worth it, in your esteemed opinion?
From a business standpoint in terms of how much money they bring in, they are worth those millions of dollars. The fact they're playing a child's game is irrelevant. Players like Tom Brady are actually grossly underpaid for the value that they bring to a billion dollar industry. If there were no salary cap, a player like Tom Brady would be worth 100 million a year, easily.

I would prefer a goalie who is "good enough", which realistically, you'd get for anywhere from 4-5ish million on the cap. Then invest that extra 2-3 million into the team in front of the goalie, which is far more important than the goalie itself, again, in my opinion.

As for names, I don't know, that Martin Jones seems good enough and would give you 4 million extra dollars to improve the team in front of him. Rask is not 4 million dollars better than Jones. If only we could somehow acquire Martin Jones.

What would be ideal is to be able to identify talent and get high level of play from someone on an entry level deal. Malcolm Subban is playing unreal hockey in Vegas, and we let him go literally for nothing.

If you want purely stats that demonstrate Rask's recent mediocre play in the past two years, here:

2015-2016

SV% ranked 28th in the NHL among qualified goaltenders
GAA ranked 26th in the NHL among qualified goaltenders

2016-2017

SV% ranked 20th in the NHL among qualified goaltenders
GAA ranked 6th in the NHL among qualified goaltenders

Those are just the stats, with zero context of anything actually in the games. That doesn't account for quality of goals allowed, quality of saves, timing of saves, positioning, rebounding, play vs good or bad teams, anything. All of which is relevant.

In terms of just this year, Khudobin has a .925 SV% and 2.37 GAA, to Rask's .920 and 2.23. Khudobin has played less games of course, but still. Is there an almost 6 million dollar difference in the production difference in those numbers? Of course not.

For a list of names comparable to Rask, but with better cap hits that give at least 2 million more in cap wiggle room, guys who I think the Bruins could possibly be better off overall with if you invest the excess cap hit into the team in front of them. Just including starters because of the smaller sample sizes of backups:

Andersen
Bishop
Allen
Dubnyk
Anderson
Murray (obviously)
Vasilevski
Jones
Hellebuyck
 
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