Confirmed with Link: Turris to NSH for Girard, Kamenev, and a 2nd

[David Singleton]

They have just under $3M in current cap space and $2.4M in "projected" cap space. The difference between the two is the $0.6M of Turris' cap hit that counted against Ottawa because he was on their roster for just over 1/6th of the season. $0.6M is just over 1/6th of Turris' $3.5M cap hit this season.

To answer your question, GeauxPreds1, CapFriendly has the Deadline Cap Space at $11,323,838. Basically, because the Preds have been and probably will continue to be a few million under the cap, that difference accumulates like money gaining interest and they'll be able to spend it plus the interest later. Being ~$2.9M under the cap for the first 4 months before the deadline adds up to over $11M to spend at the deadline. That means that they'll be able to add players whose cap hits on the entire season add up to that. For example, Neal's cap hit is $5M, so two James Neals could be added. In other words, unless they add significant salary between now and then, they won't be constrained by the cap at the deadline.

Very, very well explained.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

3C would be worse possible outcome for Kamenev if not having much more positive development, hopefully you are wrong.

I repeat: The dude is 21 years old.

I disagree. I think his ceiling is a low end 2C or a 3c with the low end being 4th line big body.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

3C would be worse possible outcome for Kamenev if not having much more positive development, hopefully you are wrong.

I repeat: The dude is 21 years old.

Worst possible outcome is complete bust. I dont think he will, but it's absolutely a possibility. More talented guys than Kamenev with better AHL numbers or great numbers in overseas men's leagues have completely flamed out. I like Kamenev but he is far from a guaranteed NHL 3C. I know this is hockey's future and all, but every prospect doesn't become a good NHL player. Not even the "blue chip" prospects.

Grigorenko is a good recent example, he's even a big bodied Russian just like Kamenev, was much more highly touted as well. You never know with young guys. Taylor Beck is a good recent example from the Preds. Big body, looked great and put up very good AHL numbers at age 20-22. Complete and total bust at the NHL level.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Worst possible outcome is complete bust. I dont think he will, but it's absolutely a possibility. More talented guys than Kamenev with better AHL numbers or great numbers in overseas men's leagues have completely flamed out. I like Kamenev but he is far from a guaranteed NHL 3C. I know this is hockey's future and all, but every prospect doesn't become a good NHL player. Not even the "blue chip" prospects.

Grigorenko is a good recent example, he's even a big bodied Russian just like Kamenev, was much more highly touted as well. You never know with young guys. Taylor Beck is a good recent example from the Preds. Big body, looked great and put up very good AHL numbers at age 20-22. Complete and total bust at the NHL level.

Completely agree. People don't give enough credence to the fact that the "floor" for a prospect who has yet to play real time in the league is absolutely as low as you want to make it.

 

[Enoch]

Mort: I like Kamenev but you are overestimating the success rate of merely above average AHL #s.

I think he will be a 3rd liner who can play up. If he turns out to be a 40-50 point center, this is a huge win for the Avs from an acquisition standpoint.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

I'm overestimating the success rate? I literally just said he could absolutely be a bust. If you think he's a sure thing 3rd liner, you're drastically overestimating the success rate of decent AHL numbers. Did you mean the other guy?

 

[21]

Ok, you guys have to be real experts being able to judge a very young player like Kamanev hardly tested in the NHL yet. Personally I believe/guess this former captain of the Russian WCJ 20 team hasn't reached his fully potential yet, anything else would be a huge surprise. I'm puzzled how some of you can put a #3 or #4 line stamp on a talent like this who for sure hasn't reached his potential yet.

His numbers in the AHL are respectable for a young player, they look fine, now he is ready to be tested on the bigger scene, in the Avs he will be given some time to succeed. At least he is a very interesting dark horse to have and will be interesting to follow.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

You must be a real expert to discern that a 21 year old that hasn't done anything meaningful in the NHL yet will definitely be a very good NHL player. NHL development isn't a straight line to the top. People don't get better every year, AHL stats and success don't always translate to the big league.

I understand you apparently really like him, but don't take things personally. Everyone is just giving their opinion on a prospect. No one knows any better than anyone else how he will end up as an NHL player, or if he'll ever even be a regular NHL player for that matter.

 

[21]

You must be a real expert to discern that a 21 year old that hasn't done anything meaningful in the NHL yet will definitely be a very good NHL player. NHL development isn't a straight line to the top. People don't get better every year, AHL stats and success don't always translate to the big league.

I understand you apparently really like him, but don't take things personally. Everyone is just giving their opinion on a prospect. No one knows any better than anyone else how he will end up as an NHL player, or if he'll ever even be a regular NHL player for that matter.

Of course I'm guessing, but I don't find any good reasons at all to limit him to a #3 or #4 line center, not yet.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Of course I'm guessing, but I don't find any good reasons at all to limit him to a #3 or #4 line center, not yet.

So do you view every single prospect that scores a decent amount in the AHL as a potential 1st or 2nd line player? Because the Preds have had plenty of forwards put up good numbers in the AHL and they almost never become legit top 6 players. Arvidsson is the only one on the current roster and probably the only one in quite a while as well. I'm probably missing someone, but the most recent other than Arvidsson that I'm remembering is Hornqvist.

 

[NSH615]

Saw this, it looks like it took weeks for this trade to be finalized.

1. Dorion said on Hockey Central at Noon that he had a deal done with Colorado for 10 days, but had to wait for the Avalanche and Predators to sort out their side. Poile told reporters that it was important to keep his first-round draft pick, which all but confirms suspicions that he was not willing to include that selection if Girard was in the deal. Since he was key for Colorado, the two teams had to massage their exchange.

That process began with Fenton and MacFarland’s chance meeting. Once they sorted that out, the Predators got permission to negotiate with Turris. I never thought that was going to be a problem. Overhardt’s agency has four other clients there: Viktor Arvidsson, Mattias Ekholm, Ryan Johansen and Craig Smith. They range from Johansen’s eight-year, $64-million deal to Ekholm’s six-year, $3.75-million AAV — one of the best values in the league. They were going to get it done.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-inside-matt-duchene-kyle-turris-blockbuster/

 

[King Weber]

Might be wrong but I think Watson is an Overhardt guy as well. #5 worth reading as well when it comes to Turris btw.

 

[coladin]

Not many things about Kyle's game are elite...but one thing sure is. His release is definitely Top 10. One of the best wristers/slappers. Enjoy!

 

[GeauxPreds1]

They have just under $3M in current cap space and $2.4M in "projected" cap space. The difference between the two is the $0.6M of Turris' cap hit that counted against Ottawa because he was on their roster for just over 1/6th of the season. $0.6M is just over 1/6th of Turris' $3.5M cap hit this season.

To answer your question, GeauxPreds1, CapFriendly has the Deadline Cap Space at $11,323,838. Basically, because the Preds have been and probably will continue to be a few million under the cap, that difference accumulates like money gaining interest and they'll be able to spend it plus the interest later. Being ~$2.9M under the cap for the first 4 months before the deadline adds up to over $11M to spend at the deadline. That means that they'll be able to add players whose cap hits on the entire season add up to that. For example, Neal's cap hit is $5M, so two James Neals could be added. In other words, unless they add significant salary between now and then, they won't be constrained by the cap at the deadline.

Awesome thanks

 

[ThirdManIn]

Ok, you guys have to be real experts being able to judge a very young player like Kamanev hardly tested in the NHL yet. Personally I believe/guess this former captain of the Russian WCJ 20 team hasn't reached his fully potential yet, anything else would be a huge surprise. I'm puzzled how some of you can put a #3 or #4 line stamp on a talent like this who for sure hasn't reached his potential yet.

His numbers in the AHL are respectable for a young player, they look fine, now he is ready to be tested on the bigger scene, in the Avs he will be given some time to succeed. At least he is a very interesting dark horse to have and will be interesting to follow.

Maybe he is ready to make the jump, but we've needed a second line center basically all season to this point and he wasn't given a shot at it. Either that means the coaches know less about him than you do, or you know less about him than they do.

I do agree that he hasn't reached his full potential, but the question is whether or not he will and whether or not his full potential is a top six center in the NHL.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Maybe he is ready to make the jump, but we've needed a second line center basically all season to this point and he wasn't given a shot at it. Either that means the coaches know less about him than you do, or you know less about him than they do.

I do agree that he hasn't reached his full potential, but the question is whether or not he will and whether or not his full potential is a top six center in the NHL.

Was also beaten out by Freddy G. to get minutes in the playoffs when we had 0 centers.

 

[PredsV82]

Was also beaten out by Freddy G. to get minutes in the playoffs when we had 0 centers.

This more than anything was my clue that Kamanev wasn't progressing as well as the team wanted. I think we got max value for him all things considered

 

[Icelevel]

Congrats guys. Great trade. Turris is an AWESOME guy. Pretty good player too. Very well rounded and always gives a solid effort. Excited to see him play with you guys.
Good luck this year.

 

[Adz]

Get us a lot of pie, Kyle Turris.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Kamenev is going to join the Avalanche when they return from Sweden. He was going to join them there but had visa issues so they sent him to San Antonio to keep playing.

 

[adsfan]

Worst possible outcome is complete bust. I dont think he will, but it's absolutely a possibility. More talented guys than Kamenev with better AHL numbers or great numbers in overseas men's leagues have completely flamed out. I like Kamenev but he is far from a guaranteed NHL 3C. I know this is hockey's future and all, but every prospect doesn't become a good NHL player. Not even the "blue chip" prospects.

Grigorenko is a good recent example, he's even a big bodied Russian just like Kamenev, was much more highly touted as well. You never know with young guys. Taylor Beck is a good recent example from the Preds. Big body, looked great and put up very good AHL numbers at age 20-22. Complete and total bust at the NHL level.

I always thought that Beck didn't have enough strength to be a power forward. He could have been a little faster.

Kam hasn't developed as fast as I thought he would in Milwaukee. That doesn't mean that he won't keep developing. Pete Rose was a late bloomer too.

 

[PredsV82]

Kam hasn't developed as fast as I thought he would in Milwaukee. That doesn't mean that he won't keep developing. Pete Rose was a late bloomer too.

Wait wut? No he wasnt...

 

[Gnashville]

Was also beaten out by Freddy G. to get minutes in the playoffs when we had 0 centers.

That’s the point I started to question Kamenev. We knew nothing about Freddy Gaudreau except that he wasn’t related to the guy in Calgary and was on the “Soup Line” after the food poisoning in Detroit. And he was called up before Kamenev when they had nothing. It was a big red flag that there was something fishy about him. He started to bring up a certain player named Shishkanov in my mind.

 

[King Weber]

Freddy had played 9 games with us before the playoffs though, where as Kamenev had played just 2, and in those games Freddy more than held his own. I don't think calling up a 20-year old, who has practically no NHL experience and clearly isn't ready yet, straight into the Cup finals is a good idea.

 

[PredsV82]

Bottom line is, we are loaded at center for the conceivable future. Kamanev(had he stayed) and any other Preds prospects playing center in the AHL or Europe will either need to learn to play as a wing in the NHL or plan on waiting a minimum of 4 years before an NHL center spot is available.

Kamanev obviously didn't need to be kept hanging around waiting for something to open up. Trading him while he still has value is the best we could do