TSN: Trevor on TSN 1040: Going after Thomas Vanek, Horvat contract not far off

[y2kcanucks]

We are on a downward spiral..'bottoming out'...precisely what we should be doing.

Except they bottomed out despite Trevor and Jim bringing in players they thought could turn this team around quickly. That says a couple things:

1) Their eye for talent is very poor.

2) They had a very poor understanding of the team they had inherited.

Thus, there is zero confidence in their ability to turn this around at all.


Let me put this in other terms: If I hire a chef to cook for me, and he goes out and spends top dollar on lettuce to make a good salad to complete my meal, and then he serves me pink chicken because he thinks the chicken will be juicier and therefore better, and I get food poisoning...I'm not going to turn around and say "oh well he's learning, he'll do better and won't **** up cooking me pork tomorrow.

 

[timw33]

We are on a downward spiral..'bottoming out'...precisely what we should be doing.

Then tell us we're going to have some lean years, don't tell us for 2 straight years that this is a "100 point team" or "a playoff team" while the results on the ice tell a completely different story.

Setting reasonable expectations is incredibly important.

We should have started the rebuilding process minimum 2 years ago, if not 4 years ago.

 

[jonnygf40]

Except they bottomed out despite Trevor and Jim bringing in players they thought could turn this team around quickly. That says a couple things:

1) Their eye for talent is very poor.

2) They had a very poor understanding of the team they had inherited.

Thus, there is zero confidence in their ability to turn this around at all.


Let me put this in other terms: If I hire a chef to cook for me, and he goes out and spends top dollar on lettuce to make a good salad to complete my meal, and then he serves me pink chicken because he thinks the chicken will be juicier and therefore better, and I get food poisoning...I'm not going to turn around and say "oh well he's learning, he'll do better and won't **** up cooking me pork tomorrow.

Lol. Worst comparison ever.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Lol. Worst comparison ever.

But how did the pork turn out? We may never know.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

This analogy was surprisingly without any potatoes to go with that meat

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Team was on a downward spiral.....the three (four) stooges put that decline into overdrive ala Thelma & Louise driving over the cliff....

sedins in their prime make the previous management group look far far better than they actually were

jimbo and trev are wearing the cost

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Yes, that team needed to be rebuilt. TL and JB thought they could turn it around with that core. They failed.

giving yourself a chance is not the same as a guarantee

no, they would not have won a cup but there was enough there to justify trying, for various reasons (personnel, business, development etc). PS: I'm not saying couldn't have justified a full tear down after 12/13 but you're coming off the back of 5 straight division titles, so ...

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Except they bottomed out despite Trevor and Jim bringing in players they thought could turn this team around quickly. That says a couple things:

1) Their eye for talent is very poor.

2) They had a very poor understanding of the team they had inherited.

Thus, there is zero confidence in their ability to turn this around at all.


Let me put this in other terms: If I hire a chef to cook for me, and he goes out and spends top dollar on lettuce to make a good salad to complete my meal, and then he serves me pink chicken because he thinks the chicken will be juicier and therefore better, and I get food poisoning...I'm not going to turn around and say "oh well he's learning, he'll do better and won't **** up cooking me pork tomorrow.

they brought in guys they thought could help transition

the timeline of that transition has never been definitively specified

they new exactly what kind of garbage they had on this roster (behind the sedins)

 

[valkynax]

they brought in guys they thought could help transition

the timeline of that transition has never been definitively specified

they new exactly what kind of garbage they had on this roster (behind the sedins)

I have a feeling both Benning and Linden are overrating the CRAP out of this roster.

They still think Sedins are elites, they compare Granlund to Bergeron, and they called Sutter a foundational player.

Benning said there's no shortcut to the cup, then proceeds to take every bad shortcut possible.

 

[Hit the post]

they brought in guys they thought could help transition

Well if that's the case, then they've failed miserably.

sedins in their prime make the previous management group look far far better than they actually were

jimbo and trev are wearing the cost

Doesn't change the fact the previous regime (Nonis) failed to make even the playoffs two out of three seasons. Though I'd agree, the Sedins performance in season one of the Benning regime makes these stooges look better than they actually were

 

[ProstheticConscience]

they brought in guys they thought could help transition

And those guys sucked. Their eye for talent has been awful for three years running now.

the timeline of that transition has never been definitively specified

Duh. They're hedging their bets because they don't know what to do.

they new exactly what kind of garbage they had on this roster (behind the sedins)

Yet somehow the team's best players are all still leftovers from previous GMs, and Lindenningbrod bought a whole pile of new garbage with all our draft picks under the illusion the players coming this way were going to be difference-makers here.

D'oh.

 

[sting101]

Trevor Linden is a personable guy who is popular with fans of this franchise because of his playing career, and managed to parlay that popularity into some success as a commercial pitchman who had has name slapped on some gyms.

He's a guy with a high-school education who by his own admission had nothing to do with the sport in the 7 years between the end of his career and his hiring as President. Literally his only qualification for the job was that the fans here liked him.

Since his hiring, he's been laughably out of his depth. Hired a complete moron as GM. The team has had no direction whatsoever and barely even seems to have a plan. He's been completely out of touch with the fanbase. Constantly contradicts himself in interviews. The franchise has gone into the toilet under his leadership, ticket sales have collapsed, and ownership has lost over $100 million in franchise value. Not out of his depth? Are you serious?

Yes i am serious.

i said he has the intelligence level to NOT be out of depth when it comes to being a head of hockey ops. All you have to do is look around at his peers and its pretty obvious he is a smart enough guy.

As for what he's done since being hired and the lack of experience before being hired that's another story and Canuck fans have never supported a loser.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Except they bottomed out despite Trevor and Jim bringing in players they thought could turn this team around quickly. That says a couple things:

1) Their eye for talent is very poor.

2) They had a very poor understanding of the team they had inherited.

Thus, there is zero confidence in their ability to turn this around at all.


Let me put this in other terms: If I hire a chef to cook for me, and he goes out and spends top dollar on lettuce to make a good salad to complete my meal, and then he serves me pink chicken because he thinks the chicken will be juicier and therefore better, and I get food poisoning...I'm not going to turn around and say "oh well he's learning, he'll do better and won't **** up cooking me pork tomorrow.

Lets just say
1) What if the Canucks had won the lottery and got Matthews or Laine..?..would that have changed anything?
2)..Not really..they had a 100 point team in their first season here.....they should have started deconstructing the team after that Flames playoff loss in 2015 (I think most of the fans would have embraced it)..the folly was the 'retool on the fly'.

I disagree that they cannot turn this around.

 

[me2]

We are on a downward spiral..'bottoming out'...precisely what we should be doing.

Benning: Ooooops. Sorry.
Linden: Hey the passengers wanted us to land. Mission accomplished!

 

[F A N]

Trevor Linden is a personable guy who is popular with fans of this franchise because of his playing career, and managed to parlay that popularity into some success as a commercial pitchman who had has name slapped on some gyms.

He's a guy with a high-school education who by his own admission had nothing to do with the sport in the 7 years between the end of his career and his hiring as President. Literally his only qualification for the job was that the fans here liked him.

Since his hiring, he's been laughably out of his depth. Hired a complete moron as GM. The team has had no direction whatsoever and barely even seems to have a plan. He's been completely out of touch with the fanbase. Constantly contradicts himself in interviews. The franchise has gone into the toilet under his leadership, ticket sales have collapsed, and ownership has lost over $100 million in franchise value. Not out of his depth? Are you serious?

I don't disagree with you on Linden's lack of qualifications and even competency in hockey operations matters. He certainly got the job because he's like the all-time most popular Canuck. But the reality is a lot of GMs get hired by an owner who is even less qualified than Linden. I mean who hired Brian Burke? Nonis? Gillis? It's meaningless to say that Linden isn't qualified to hire a GM and let him run the team because the alternative is Aquilini hiring someone himself. At least here he hired someone with NHL hockey experience to hire a GM to run the team. I know that doesn't make you feel any better about the process, but that's the reality. Most of the time, it's some corporate guy or owner hires a guy to run the hockey operations.

The only concern was Linden exerting his influence rather than letting a qualified GM run the team and Benning was qualified to be a GM. All evidence suggests that in large part he has let his GM manage the team. You can think that Benning is incompetent all you want, but he did possess the qualifications for the job. For some reason, some people like to mix their feelings of Benning's competency with his actual qualifications.

A lot of people don't realize that a GM without a separate President of Hockey Operations wear many hats. As President, Linden likely does a lot of corporate support, speaking to season ticket holders, community service etc. that the GM otherwise would have to do. In that role he's actually quite qualified. He has business ties to the community and like you said the fans love him. The media likes him. He's really fine in that role. You think Gillis would have been more persuasive in getting corporations to buy luxury boxes or season tickets all else being equal? 10 years down the line, I would be more persuaded by Henrik Sedin than Dave Nonis, Brian Burke, or Mike Gillis types.

Of course, at the end of the day it's about hiring the right people and putting forth a good/winning product on the ice. That's where the buck stops with Linden. He's in charge of the whole hockey ops. Personally, I wish Linden had a vision. Or maybe he has it is very much embodied in Benning.

 

[mathonwy]

Lets just say
1) What if the Canucks had won the lottery and got Matthews or Laine..?..would that have changed anything?
2)..Not really..they had a 100 point team in their first season here.....they should have started deconstructing the team after that Flames playoff loss in 2015 (I think most of the fans would have embraced it)..the folly was the 'retool on the fly'.

I disagree that they cannot turn this around.

What the heck are you talking about they should have started deconstructing after the 14-15 playoffs??

What do you call trading Bonino?

What do you call trading Bieksa?

What do you call trading Eddie?

What do you call trading Kassian?

What do you call rushing McCann and Virtanen?

What do you call an inability to make a SINGLE significant trade at the TDL?

Retooling? Serious.. what the eff do you even call this clustereff and the resulting 76 point tire fire?


----

- Giving a 2nd to LA (Vey)
- Giving a 3rd to NYR (Dorsett)
- Giving Dorsett and Sbisa raises before seeing either player play a single second of playoff hockey with the downstream effects being stripping the team of veteran center depth due to lack of cap space
- Giving Forsling to Chicago (Clendening)
- Picking Jake (over Willam and Nikolaj)
- Giving McCann and a draft pick to Florida (Gudbranson)
- Giving Bonino, draft position, prospect and cap space (1.9 VS 4.25) to Pittsburgh (Sutter)
- Giving a 5th to Edmonton (Larsen)
- Giving a 5th, a roster spot and cap space to Montreal (Kassian)

Ok... these are just some of the reasons why I believe this management team are a bunch of dolts that will keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

So you think they can turn this around.

Care to share the reasons WHY you think they can turn this around?

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

What the heck are you talking about they should have started deconstructing after the 14-15 playoffs??

What do you call trading Bonino?

What do you call trading Bieksa?

What do you call trading Eddie?

What do you call trading Kassian?

What do you call rushing McCann and Virtanen?

What do you call an inability to make a SINGLE significant trade at the TDL?

Retooling? Serious.. what the eff do you even call this clustereff and the resulting 76 point tire fire?


----

- Giving a 2nd to LA (Vey)
- Giving a 3rd to NYR (Dorsett)
- Giving Dorsett and Sbisa raises before seeing either player play a single second of playoff hockey with the downstream effects being stripping the team of veteran center depth due to lack of cap space
- Giving Forsling to Chicago (Clendening)
- Picking Jake (over Willam and Nikolaj)
- Giving McCann and a draft pick to Florida (Gudbranson)
- Giving Bonino, draft position, prospect and cap space (1.9 VS 4.25) to Pittsburgh (Sutter)
- Giving a 5th to Edmonton (Larsen)
- Giving a 5th, a roster spot and cap space to Montreal (Kassian)

Ok... these are just some of the reasons why I believe this management team are a bunch of dolts that will keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

So you think they can turn this around.

Care to share the reasons WHY you think they can turn this around?

Still crying about the Eddie Lack trade are we....and all those 5th round picks we bled...

Anyway....its obviously in rebuild now..no free agents are going to get this team into the playoffs..Also,besides Eriksson ,were not really totally handcuffed by any huge contracts..Sutter can be traded in 2 years..the Sedins come off the books after this season...Beartschi and Grandlund won't be too expensive to re-sign....and most of the kids will have ELC's....

Hopefully another high pick in the draft next June,and a whole lot of cap space available thereafter..might not be as bad as it looks..

 

[denkiteki]

Still crying about the Eddie Lack trade are we....and all those 5th round picks we bled...

Anyway....its obviously in rebuild now..no free agents are going to get this team into the playoffs..Also,besides Eriksson ,were not really totally handcuffed by any huge contracts..Sutter can be traded in 2 years..the Sedins come off the books after this season...Beartschi and Grandlund won't be too expensive to re-sign....and most of the kids will have ELC's....

Hopefully another high pick in the draft next June,and a whole lot of cap space available thereafter..might not be as bad as it looks..

That Eriksson deal will last a long time tho... it could be a potential problem in 3 years when all the ELCs are no longer ELC and its time to say resign Petersson. Imagine Boeser and Horvat both signing long term deals then we need to figure out cap space for Dahlen and Petersson and due to Eriksson, we can only resign 1 of them.

Its not like situations like this hasn't happened all over the NHL. Edmonton basically gave away Eberle this year and likely will have to do more moves down the road due to Lucic's deal (they have 13 players signed next year with only 14 mil cap space of the cap doesn't go up). Two years from now, they'll need to resign Puljujarvi (and Lucic contract will still be on the books).

Eriksson's contract is similar and thus if any of our prospects works out, it could create huge problems down the road. Getting rid of it isn't likely to be cheap either and the contract really depends on Eriksson being productive now since i don't think anyone thinks he'll be close to a 6 mil player at 35 or 36. The only good thing about his contract is his base salary is only 1 mil (3 mil in 21-22) so depending on his bonus schedule, we might be able to trade him during the last 2 seasons (after his 3 mil payout in 2020). That would leave 4 mil for 2 years (2 per) despite a 6 mil cap hit. For a small market/cap floor team, that could be an asset (and his NMC/NTC changes to a 15 team NTC).

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

That Eriksson deal will last a long time tho... it could be a potential problem in 3 years when all the ELCs are no longer ELC and its time to say resign Petersson. Imagine Boeser and Horvat both signing long term deals then we need to figure out cap space for Dahlen and Petersson and due to Eriksson, we can only resign 1 of them.

Its not like situations like this hasn't happened all over the NHL. Edmonton basically gave away Eberle this year and likely will have to do more moves down the road due to Lucic's deal (they have 13 players signed next year with only 14 mil cap space of the cap doesn't go up). Two years from now, they'll need to resign Puljujarvi (and Lucic contract will still be on the books).

Eriksson's contract is similar and thus if any of our prospects works out, it could create huge problems down the road. Getting rid of it isn't likely to be cheap either and the contract really depends on Eriksson being productive now since i don't think anyone thinks he'll be close to a 6 mil player at 35 or 36. The only good thing about his contract is his base salary is only 1 mil (3 mil in 21-22) so depending on his bonus schedule, we might be able to trade him during the last 2 seasons (after his 3 mil payout in 2020). That would leave 4 mil for 2 years (2 per) despite a 6 mil cap hit. For a small market/cap floor team, that could be an asset (and his NMC/NTC changes to a 15 team NTC).

There's no way out of that Eriksson deal...Petterson didn't even sign a contract with the Canucks this year(he will for next season),so that should give us 4 years until his ELC will expire.

Edmonton has two players taking up $20M in cap space...we have nothing remotely like that..Its going to make the Oilers top heavy salary wise.. In a few years,it might be to the Canucks benefit to have a more balanced roster without having a couple of players with ginormous salaries.

 

[Scott Stevens]

There's no way out of that Eriksson deal...Petterson didn't even sign a contract with the Canucks this year(he will for next season),so that should give us 4 years until his ELC will expire.

Edmonton has two players taking up $20M in cap space...we have nothing remotely like that..Its going to make the Oilers top heavy salary wise.. In a few years,it might be to the Canucks benefit to have a more balanced roster without having a couple of players with ginormous salaries.

No. There isn't any benefit to being the team without McMuffin and Dr. Drai.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

There's no way out of that Eriksson deal...

Agreed, one of the worst deals in hockey.

 

[Hit the post]

There's no way out of that Eriksson deal...Petterson didn't even sign a contract with the Canucks this year(he will for next season),so that should give us 4 years until his ELC will expire.

Edmonton has two players taking up $20M in cap space...we have nothing remotely like that..Its going to make the Oilers top heavy salary wise.. In a few years,it might be to the Canucks benefit to have a more balanced roster without having a couple of players with ginormous salaries.

Except it was Benning himself who handed out that deal to Eriksson (the SAME guy that went hard after Lucic - who knows what kind of contract he would've given him). There's nothing to suggest he won't just replace that David Clarkson-lite contract with another if there was cap space available. Heck, I'd venture to say, a really scary time for a Canuckfan is when the Sedin contracts come off the books with Benning still in charge. This management team hasn't shown us anything about their so-called *professional* scouting abilities (ie., Sutter, Bart, Eriksson, Sbisa, etc.,).

And there's a vast difference between having to overpaid contracts to players that are very good players vs David Clarkson lite players on overpaid contracts.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

As this appears to have become another management discussion, I am shutting this down - discussion can continue in our designated management thread.

Closed.