Trevor Daley... 3 years $3.17M a year

[A II R]

You're right. Edmonton and Toronto sure are suffering for letting talented youth take the lead.

Unthinkable that we make our McDavid/Matthews equivalent stay in the AHL.

 

[Bench]

He'll be 34 when the season starts. I don't think Daley has much to offer the players we have here, but I really liked him during his career year in Dallas.

Daley, in his time with Dallas, was always the breakout candidate. He had the speed to put himself into incredible offensive positions but it didn't result in goals nearly as much as you'd expect. When Tippett was fired, part of the excitement was that Daley would have his handcuffs removed and become a consistent offensive producer. Alas, that never really came to pass.

His skating will determine his value. If his legs are still feeling good, he'll help this team. But don't be fooled by his teases as he breaks into the zone... He'll just turn it over behind the opponent's net.

 

[Marky9er]

Unthinkable that we make our McDavid/Matthews equivalent stay in the AHL.

Equivalent? Equivalent......what?
What equivalent?

 

[jkutswings]

Unthinkable that we make our McDavid/Matthews equivalent stay in the AHL.

Not at all. It's that, if this franchise wasn't so beholden to chasing the chance to be the first playoff team to get eliminated, they might actually make some decisions that could one day lead to GETTING a McDavid or a Matthews, rather than keep hoarding as much mediocrity as they can squeeze under the salary cap.

But hey, less is more. Except when a half-***ed rebuild takes twice as long as an honest one.

 

[Oddbob]

Not at all. It's that, if this franchise wasn't so beholden to chasing the chance to be the first playoff team to get eliminated, they might actually make some decisions that could one day lead to GETTING a McDavid or a Matthews, rather than keep hoarding as much mediocrity as they can squeeze under the salary cap.

But hey, less is more. Except when a half-***ed rebuild takes twice as long as an honest one.

What kids exactly, on the blueline, are being held back with this? No one, is the right answer. Ouellet and Jensen will both still play, and they are nothing special at all, Russo looks completely like an AHL'er from what I have seen, and Sproul is just a little better than Russo, and he too is nothing special.

Hronek, Saarijarvi, Hicketts, etc. aren't likely ready yet as well, so who is losing playing time, that we should be concerned about?

 

[HIFE]

Love your logic - comparing us to Toronto and Edmonton is farcical and makes a mockery of your argument.

Toronto and Edmonton are stack full of top 10 first round picks including some of the best young talent of the last decade and at least 1 generational player, and possibly 2.

The wings have had their first top ten pick in 26 years a few days ago. Implying the talent levels of the wings prospect pool is comparable to Toronto's and Edmonton's or can be implemented in the same way with the same success is the mother of all stretches.

As it happens, both Toronto and Edmonton would probably benefit from Trevor Daley on their back line.

Except for the tank for Dahlin argument, I don't see how anyone can be too upset by this. A reasonably priced 2nd line d-man with a declining contract that will be tradeable in the 3rd year (unless his game drops off a cliff) at a time when our most experienced D is unlikely to be able to play much more than half the games this year and our best offensive D is very likely to be traded come the deadline.

Add in the fact that our only young unestablished D man remotely physically ready to step up to the NHL is both wildly inconsistent and on IR AND the fact that Daley is a better puck mover than 2/3 of our existing D, I don't see how this hurts us. I might have preferred Del Zotto or Hainsey, but its pretty marginal.

jkuts was comparing Edmonton and Toronto as teams led by young players. The NHL has gotten younger. Rookies up to early 20's are being trusted and having success early in their carreer. For Detroit passing from the 90's/2000's era I think there's no healthier direction than letting Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi, DeKeyser, Jensen, Ouelett, Russo, Hicketts, etc. take over this team with full confidence under Zetterberg and Green. Like immediately. Save cap space and make NO new addition of players without upside. "Build from within" as Holland claims. Remember guys like AA and Bertuzzi already played against McDavid for years in junior- in my viewing younger players are best suited to take on the young stars of the league.

Detroit is a sophisticated hockey market we could buy into the idea of a youth movement with Larkin and Mantha as the face. The strategy is sell the concept of rebuilding while planning to pick as high as possible in the lottery. It's the only realistic way to construct an all-star team 3-7 years down the line.

The entire disagreement at HF is whether or not to propel ourselves into a full-blown rebuild. Holland has stated the organization's goals and argued his strategy in MANY interviews on the subject. We know where he and those who agree with the Wing's direction stand.

The fact is the majority of DRW fans online at blogs, chat forums (Reddit/HF), in the news comments at Mlive or DFP are in favor of cleaning house. It was striking to hear a visible figure like Ken Daniels say that Detroit would be fully willing. Most convincing to me is how many hockey journalists and analysts believe that a tear-down rebuild like Toronto is the most reasonable plan of action. Again Ken's been questioned candidly over the need to hit the restart button. It feels the entire hockey world almost wishes we would enact moves that would signal an aggressive rebuild...but the Wings insist on doing the opposite.

I disagree that Daley could help in Toronto or Edmonton. His chips off the glass relying on Crosby and Malkin to win a battle won't work here with Tatar or Glendening. Daley is being totally overrated. As TZE said just watch him in Chicago and Dallas he was buckling under pressure. He may move quick but plays small and loses the puck frequently. He's soft and avoids contact. As Bench said 100% his entire career there's a buzz to his game but it never amounts to anything.

Daley wasn't "necessary". There were a dozen options and we could have just promoted from within. A rebuilding team would have picked up Christian Folin or given Morrow a shot. Other teams did. If Daley is better than 2/3 of our D then burn this joke of a team to the ground and bottom out. The only thing Daley does is perpetuate the mediocrity that Illich and Holland force on fans. They must honestly believe we're that stupid to think setting a goal for the playoffs is a smart strategy right now. I think Daley might have been chosen by marketing because of the name recognition. "Ooo sure they'll think he's still a real gud player...".

Anyone who isn't on the lottery quest for Dahlin and Svechnikov is a buffoon. This team was horrible to watch last season and nothing Holland does makes it any easier to palate. We want elite talent not stopgaps.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not at all. It's that, if this franchise wasn't so beholden to chasing the chance to be the first playoff team to get eliminated, they might actually make some decisions that could one day lead to GETTING a McDavid or a Matthews, rather than keep hoarding as much mediocrity as they can squeeze under the salary cap.

But hey, less is more. Except when a half-***ed rebuild takes twice as long as an honest one.

I like Daley but he isn't carrying us out of the lottery singlehandedly. You need to stop overrating his impact. He's mostly a warm body to protect and mentor our youth. This isn't Shattenkirk. Unless our young players take massive leaps and/or half the roster rebounds from weak years we are very much in the midst of the lottery. Beyond that it comes down to small things like being lucky and just how bad other teams are. Could we have made moves to help our chances at being in the top of the lottery? Sure. Trading Mantha and Larkin for picks, getting rid of Nyquist/Tatar, losing a goalie. Not sure it'd be worth it though considering how the lottery works. I prefer this patient approach instead of panic.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I'd rather save the money from all these 'quality veteran' contacts, play the kids anyway, and have cap space to take an asset with a bad deal, instead of collecting bad deals of our own, with no extra assets to show for it.

****ing this

When the hell does this senior club mentality expire? At what point in Ken Holland's universe does the transition ACTUALLY happen?

 

[Pavels Dog]

****ing this

When the hell does this senior club mentality expire? At what point in Ken Holland's universe does the transition ACTUALLY happen?

Transition to budget team that takes on cap dumps? Never, hopefully.
Transition to being younger? Has happened for years, will continue as we keep adding more picks and higher picks. Tyler Wright even said as much. Daley is 1 player, not 7. 3 years from now he and Dekeyser could be the only guys that aren't 20-25 on our blueline.

 

[obey86]

People making way too big of a deal over a single 3 year, relatively cheap contract.

 

[Retire91]

Good signing IMO

 

[Heaton]

People making way too big of a deal over a single 3 year, relatively cheap contract.

It's not the player, it's the mentality. In a vacuum a 'single 3 year, relatively cheap contract' is great. Daley's contract in a vacuum is fine value for a team that needs defensemen. But the push back has nothing to do with a single contract, it's the overall mentality of how Holland is running the team.

 

[lomekian]

jkuts was comparing Edmonton and Toronto as teams led by young players. The NHL has gotten younger. Rookies up to early 20's are being trusted and having success early in their carreer. For Detroit passing from the 90's/2000's era I think there's no healthier direction than letting Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi, DeKeyser, Jensen, Ouelett, Russo, Hicketts, etc. take over this team with full confidence under Zetterberg and Green. Like immediately. Save cap space and make NO new addition of players without upside. "Build from within" as Holland claims. Remember guys like AA and Bertuzzi already played against McDavid for years in junior- in my viewing younger players are best suited to take on the young stars of the league.

Detroit is a sophisticated hockey market we could buy into the idea of a youth movement with Larkin and Mantha as the face. The strategy is sell the concept of rebuilding while planning to pick as high as possible in the lottery. It's the only realistic way to construct an all-star team 3-7 years down the line.

The entire disagreement at HF is whether or not to propel ourselves into a full-blown rebuild. Holland has stated the organization's goals and argued his strategy in MANY interviews on the subject. We know where he and those who agree with the Wing's direction stand.

The fact is the majority of DRW fans online at blogs, chat forums (Reddit/HF), in the news comments at Mlive or DFP are in favor of cleaning house. It was striking to hear a visible figure like Ken Daniels say that Detroit would be fully willing. Most convincing to me is how many hockey journalists and analysts believe that a tear-down rebuild like Toronto is the most reasonable plan of action. Again Ken's been questioned candidly over the need to hit the restart button. It feels the entire hockey world almost wishes we would enact moves that would signal an aggressive rebuild...but the Wings insist on doing the opposite.

I disagree that Daley could help in Toronto or Edmonton. His chips off the glass relying on Crosby and Malkin to win a battle won't work here with Tatar or Glendening. Daley is being totally overrated. As TZE said just watch him in Chicago and Dallas he was buckling under pressure. He may move quick but plays small and loses the puck frequently. He's soft and avoids contact. As Bench said 100% his entire career there's a buzz to his game but it never amounts to anything.

Daley wasn't "necessary". There were a dozen options and we could have just promoted from within. A rebuilding team would have picked up Christian Folin or given Morrow a shot. Other teams did. If Daley is better than 2/3 of our D then burn this joke of a team to the ground and bottom out. The only thing Daley does is perpetuate the mediocrity that Illich and Holland force on fans. They must honestly believe we're that stupid to think setting a goal for the playoffs is a smart strategy right now. I think Daley might have been chosen by marketing because of the name recognition. "Ooo sure they'll think he's still a real gud player...".

Anyone who isn't on the lottery quest for Dahlin and Svechnikov is a buffoon. This team was horrible to watch last season and nothing Holland does makes it any easier to palate. We want elite talent not stopgaps.

While I don't disagree with much of what you say, comparing our situation with that of Edmonton or Toronto is still farcical.

Both managed to tank before the lottery rules changed, and as such have a completely different situation than DRW. On both those teams their youngest players are also their best players, and in some cases by a distance, and in both cases with clear consensus no1 picks leading the charge.

Plain and simple, if our kids had their talent, we'd be playing them like crazy.

Like everyone else, I want to see bigger roles for Larkin, Mantha, AA, little Bert & maybe our young D (though none look like better than #4 D to me). I don't think Svech or Hicketts are ready for more than a look at NHL level yet, though there is every chance they may be by TDL. I think Svech will be a stud, but the AHL playoffs showed that he's still working it out.

Russo I'm not sold on from what I saw. Either way with Kronner & Ericsson both likely to miss lots of games even ignoring the usual freak injuries we get, I suspect all our young players will get decent ice-time this year, with our young forwards increasing their roles significantly.

The fact is, while 60-70% of the active online fan-base want to clear house, neither ownership or management want to. So one has to view the moves they make through that prism. Until last year I was with them because I felt the streak had some inherent value. Now I'd be up for a more re-building posture, but the guys that run the ship aren't ready for that, and have said before they won't be unless this year is as bad as last year.

While management wants to try to squeak into the playoffs, we can't lean any more on our kids than we have done, because barring the ones we've already seen, they aren't good enough. This is accentuated by the fact that Mantha & AA, who are possibly the most talented, are inconsistent in terms of both effort and performance, and arguably benefit from the presence of those with less talent but greater work ethic.

But essentially, Toronto and Edmonton going with their kids makes perfect sense. They have some of the best young talent in the world, and have had a deeply uninspiring collection of veterans, who for the most part have been nowhere near the standard of their youth movement. The same just isn't true in detroit because our kids aren't that good and our vets aren't that bad - and the ones that are that bad we would have to pay someone to take because injuries have ruined them.

For me Daley would have improved Toronto before they got Hainsey (who I've already said I would have slightly preferred). With Sekera injured, Edmonton only have 4 D who could be said to be better than Daley. I personally wouldn't have minded trying to pick up Folin or similar, but I think we are still 12 months from Management being willing to countenance such an approach.

What I will say is that DRW are in the midst of their greatest youth influx in over 2 decades, and as such have depleted their now fairly shallow prospect pool quicker than normal. Daley is a stop gap, who will be traded in 2 1/2 years time as our collection of bad contracts starts easing off.

And a lottery quest is a lot harder to rely on these days than when Edmonton and Toronto benefited. I just hope if we are as bad this year as last, there is even more of a car boot sale than at the last TDL, where it isn't just UFA's that depart, because that would show a strategic adjustment to circumstances.

 

[Shoalzie]

I don't mind Daley but he's not the difference between making and missing the playoffs. They weren't a 2nd or 3rd pair defenseman away from keeping the streak alive.

This team had more problems than their defense. Goaltending was inconsistent, the power play was awful, secondary scoring was unreliable (or non-existent) and the defense got carved up on nights against young speedy forwards.

Adding Trevor Daley is a plug but the wall has so many more holes in it. You could've stayed out of free agency...or at least stuck with guys you can get on 1 year contracts.

Right now, I'd want to see what the kids can do. More veterans means less ice time for developing players. I want to see young players in defined roles...not being used as injury fill-ins.

I don't mind seeing a situation like Jensen taking a job away from Marchenko. One young player outplays another and he wins the spot. In-house competition is a good thing. But now with Daley...are you really going to give Sproul or Ouellet a fair shot against Daley or Ericsson or DeKeyser? Veterans tend to keep their jobs as long as they're healthy.

 

[StargateSG1]

I don't mind Daley but he's not the difference between making and missing the playoffs. They weren't a 2nd or 3rd pair defenseman away from keeping the streak alive.

This team had more problems than their defense. Goaltending was inconsistent, the power play was awful, secondary scoring was unreliable (or non-existent) and the defense got carved up on nights against young speedy forwards.

Adding Trevor Daley is a plug but the wall has so many more holes in it. You could've stayed out of free agency...or at least stuck with guys you can get on 1 year contracts.

Right now, I'd want to see what the kids can do. More veterans means less ice time for developing players. I want to see young players in defined roles...not being used as injury fill-ins.

I don't mind seeing a situation like Jensen taking a job away from Marchenko. One young player outplays another and he wins the spot. In-house competition is a good thing. But now with Daley...are you really going to give Sproul or Ouellet a fair shot against Daley or Ericsson or DeKeyser? Veterans tend to keep their jobs as long as they're healthy.

It is a terrible D Corps for 25 million dollars, just plain terrible.

Green-Kronwall

Daley-DDK

Ericsson-Jensen

Will not win you many games.
No matter what, we are looking at lottery next season.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Transition to budget team that takes on cap dumps? Never, hopefully.
Transition to being younger? Has happened for years, will continue as we keep adding more picks and higher picks. Tyler Wright even said as much. Daley is 1 player, not 7. 3 years from now he and Dekeyser could be the only guys that aren't 20-25 on our blueline.

What is the point of signing Daley on a team that just finished bottom 3rd in the league? What does that do for us that just playing a prospect doesn't?

The team is younger despite Holland, not because of him. When's the last time he signed a young impact player? Dekeyser aaannnddd...?

 

[Run the Jewels]

My only criticism of the deal is the NMC/NTC. If your offer was competitive, and I have to believe it was, then why give him the ability to restrict movement? Was it worth signing him and losing total control over the contract? I personally don't think so and it shows the country club mentality still exists and will until Holland officially retires. So that is worthy of criticism in my opinion. The 2018 draft is supposed to be a great one with lot of depth so why lose out on the ability to move one of your only really movable assets if things go as badly as many of us expect?

I know some will say the no trade clause is probably greatly modified in the final year but at that point Daley is 37 years old and an impending UFA so I wonder what the value would be - particularly if he can control his trade destination. In that scenario it could easily be yet another asset that has little to no value.

We aren't competing for titles, and we're trending towards the bottom 5 in the league. With that being the case I wish Holland would be more willing to acquire draft picks. He did a nice job last year trading his UFA contracts which is why I wanted to limit any free agent signings to one year deals. The odds of Green being traded this year and very high and it happens to work out that this is going to be a great draft class. I would have liked being able to trade Daley if we found a good offer prior to the trade deadline or even prior to next summer's draft. I highly doubt that is even an option given Daley's contract.

Oh well, I am not going to get too worked up about it at this point. Signs are pointing to this being Holland's final season so at least once this season is over we can turn our attention to the future direction of the franchise.

 

[mindfly]

Ugh, I thought he was born 1985.. turns out he's just 2 years younger than kronwall.... :/

 

[Dotter]

Anti- Holland group says Daley won't help the team - But say play the kids instead.
The logical-ists say Daley isn't going to help the team - but there are no kids good enough to play.

Either way Wings are basically tanking. Daley isn't going to be the difference maker. It's just money that the ownership was willing to pay to make the Red Wings a little less brutal to watch for 82 games.

The stop gap cost you, the fan, nothing. And this stop gap isn't foiling your "long term plan" either.

Many here, from what I've read in forum posts, don't even bother to watch the Wings play during their losing stint. Not me, I watch ever-single-game and enjoy it for what it is. It's ice hockey and I look forward to watching every night after a hard days work. Adding a player with 'some' skill will be funner than watching no players with skill.

And, as stated, Daley cost you nothing and isn't going to be the difference maker at the end of the season.

That said, I cannot wait until the Hockey Season begins again. I miss watching my Detroit Red Wings!

 

[Syckle78]

I love that the defense of Holland boils down to well we're gonna suck anyway,might as well toss another beat up veteran on the heap that's not going to make a difference. That's so much better than signing a young player on a show me contract,a player on a moveable contract that we can flip orrrrr not spending at all and having space available at the tdl to sell to some team for futures. Nah status quo is much better!

 

[The Zermanator]

Anti- Holland group says Daley won't help the team - But say play the kids instead.
The logical-ists say Daley isn't going to help the team - but there are no kids good enough to play.

Either way Wings are basically tanking. Daley isn't going to be the difference maker. It's just money that the ownership was willing to pay to make the Red Wings a little less brutal to watch for 82 games.

The stop gap cost you, the fan, nothing. And this stop gap isn't foiling your "long term plan" either.

Many here, from what I've read in forum posts, don't even bother to watch the Wings play during their losing stint. Not me, I watch ever-single-game and enjoy it for what it is. It's ice hockey and I look forward to watching every night after a hard days work. Adding a player with 'some' skill will be funner than watching no players with skill.

And, as stated, Daley cost you nothing and isn't going to be the difference maker at the end of the season.

That said, I cannot wait until the Hockey Season begins again. I miss watching my Detroit Red Wings!

Some of us miss watching them in late April, May, and even June though. And that's not going to happen again with this management group.

I love that the defense of Holland boils down to well we're gonna suck anyway,might as well toss another beat up veteran on the heap that's not going to make a difference. That's so much better than signing a young player on a show me contract,a player on a moveable contract that we can flip orrrrr not spending at all and having space available at the tdl to sell to some team for futures. Nah status quo is much better!

While his defenders are busy justifying ultimately pointless moves like signing Daley or trading AHL players or late round picks, they're missing the plain obvious truth. While Ken Holland most definitely played a vital role in the many years of success this team had (which is what I think they're hung up on, just can't let go), he has also presided over a complete drain of talent and loss of prestige/achievement that has lasted the better part of a decade. There is a clear and consistent downward trend over that time.

I mean, I've been on the 'lose Holland' train for a couple years at least now, but back then a lot of our criticism of him was based on us not having faith that he would actually do anything to improve the team. We just didn't think he was up to making the necessary hard choices. But now that we've got a couple years at least of real life examples of him doing just that, I just don't understand by which metric you can defend his performance at this point.

With the situation this team has faced the last couple seasons, this is how Holland has responded:

- Trades Datsyuk's contract for cap space, trading down from a prospect that hit the NHL as an 18 year old D and held his own. By the time Cholowski actually hits the NHL for his first game, Chychrun may have 3-4 years of NHL experience under his belt already. I think that one's going to come back and bite us. And what does he do with the extra cap space? Well, first off, he completely whiffs on Stamkos (never even got on the phone with him). And then when Stamkos is off the table, he uses all that cap space to sign an over 30 secondary player to a 6 year contract(Nielsen), and an over 30 complementary player to a 5 year contract(Helm).

I'd rather have Chychrun than Nielsen, Helm, and Cholowski.

- And we still have every player that could have brought back anything of value. Nyquist, Tatar, Green, etc. The only ones he's traded are bit players like Jurco.

- Also the situation has played out such that our presumed '#1 goalie of the future' now has one foot out the door of the organization. We may end up losing him for peanuts. Not too much concrete information on that situation at this point but either way, yet another example of the talent drain happening in this organization. We went from thinking we were set in goal for the foreseeable future, to just having another hole in the roster going forward. A hole that is to be filled by injury-prone Jimmy Howard.

How do people still defend him?!

 

[Pavels Dog]

What is the point of signing Daley on a team that just finished bottom 3rd in the league? What does that do for us that just playing a prospect doesn't?

- Doesn't ruin a prospect's development by rushing him
- Gives us a player with actual experience of winning and being an NHLer, useful as a mentor on a young D core
- Gives us another asset to trade without selling futures (people need to think beyond the 17-18 season to see this though, nearly impossible for this impatient board)

Even if we finish dead last we still need players on the roster and not all of them can be or should be 20-25 year olds. Daley doesn't hurt us if we're bad, and he helps us if things turn around (unthinkable to those who think they know the future, but still) or if he can be moved for a pick = good signing in our current situation.

 

[jkutswings]

My objections have nothing to do with Daley, either the player or the contract. It's about the 5 years of crap that led up to this, and the fact that they want to keep ramming the same iceberg.

There's half a dozen guys that could be turned into more sensible assets, but whatever. I'll probably just stop watching for most or all of this season, since management has doubled down on mediocrity.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

- Doesn't ruin a prospect's development by rushing him
- Gives us a player with actual experience of winning and being an NHLer, useful as a mentor on a young D core
- Gives us another asset to trade without selling futures (people need to think beyond the 17-18 season to see this though, nearly impossible for this impatient board)

Even if we finish dead last we still need players on the roster and not all of them can be or should be 20-25 year olds. Daley doesn't hurt us if we're bad, and he helps us if things turn around (unthinkable to those who think they know the future, but still) or if he can be moved for a pick = good signing in our current situation.

When have we ever...EVER had a problem with rushing a prospect? How about losing prospects on the waiver wire because we had to play a vet?

We don't need a "vet who knows how to win" because we're not a contender, and we don't need a mentor if he's taking a spot away from a young guy. And why do we need to sign a player like Daley with a ****ing NMC just so we can nab a 5th-6th rounder in two years?

 

[dragonballgtz]

People saying he is here to mentor the youth..what youth? We have two young defenseman in Ouellet and Sproul, they will both be 24 when the season starts. Every one else will be at least 27 years old... that's not young.