Training Camp 2017 [Mod warning post #676]

[drumzan]

Someone should do a "you know" count in that Buff video. We may have a new champion there.

Nobody beats Chevy in this category. Nobody!

 

[AWSAA]

Until such time as Connor supplants the wingers in the top 6, I'm of the opinion that he ought to play on the 3rd line.

Perreault couldn't produce in the bottom 6 last year, why should we expect Connor to with crap linemates? Lowry & Armia belong on the 4th line.

 

[ffh]

Perreault couldn't produce in the bottom 6 last year, why should we expect Connor to with crap linemates? Lowry & Armia belong on the 4th line.

But thats were mathias copp and hendricks will line up.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Group 2 becomes Group 1 and Group 1 becomes Group 2. I don't think anyone was shuffled. At least it looks like we came through last night sans injury.

 

[ps241]

The atheletic has a very interesting Delow article on the Jets PP woes.

https://theathletic.com/103037/2017...gs-on-jets-pp1-and-its-not-their-young-stars/


The bizarre thing about Winnipeg's power-play problems is that they had a unit (4F, 1D, which tends to do better) that produced quite well in 2014-15 and 2015-16. It had a mix of two right-handed forwards, two left-handed forwards and a right-handed defenceman, which I tend to think is the best mix of players on a power play for a variety of reasons.

This group played a reasonable amount at 5-on-4 over two seasons, 163.68 minutes. It attempted a lot of shots, with 118 shot attempts per 60 minutes. It put a lot of shots on net (although you'd have hoped for a few more, given the volume of shots attempted) with 51.7 SF/60. Oh, and it scored a lot of goals, with 9.9 GF/60 in the 2014-16 window.

To put that last number into context, only five units managed more than 10.0 GF/60 from a 4F,1D at 5-on-4 last year. This unit produced at an elite level. Four of the five were on the Jets in 2016-17 (and four of the five are back this year). In 2016-17, the Jets got those four players on the ice in a 4F,1D with two right-handed forwards, two left-handed forwards and a right-handed defenceman for a grand total of 21.88 minutes. They scored 11.0 GF/60 in this limited time, generating 68.6 SF/60 on 115.2 CF/60. It's 20 minutes but it's 20 minutes in the context of this being a group that's worked in the past.

The four guys are, of course, Dustin Byfuglien with Bryan Little, Mathieu Perreault and Blake Wheeler. Andrew Ladd rounded the group out prior to 2016-17. Adam Lowry was the fifth Beatle most of the time last season, with Marko Dano, Nic Petan and Nikolaj Ehlers making brief cameos. A variant of the unit featuring three right-handed forwards saw Drew Stafford pile up some time with the group as well.

Fascinating!

Great find Aavco.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Finally getting some line combos/pairings from the other group.

 

[TorJet]

Perreault couldn't produce in the bottom 6 last year, why should we expect Connor to with crap linemates? Lowry & Armia belong on the 4th line.

So who would be on the left wing on your third line in order to promote Connor into the Top 6? Laine? Wheeler? Ehlers? All clearly superior players to Connor right now, so seems pretty nonsensical to play them down the line-up.

Perreault? Well, he has a proven track record, statistically, of making good players even better, so I would suggest he's someone we would prefer to use in the Top 6 - his Corsi and advanced stats clearly suggest he is a Top 6 player.

Where do you suggest we play Connor in the Top 6 if he can't supplant Laine, Wheeler, Ehlers or Perreault? At centre over Scheif or Little - he's not a centre and they're both exceptional NHL players, so that's out....

What then? Are you planning to sign Sid the Kid and a reincarnated Jean Beliveau to form a new 3rd line to give Kyle Connor the calibre of teammates you'd like him to play with?

My point isn't that it's an ideal place for him - my point is that given the reality of our team make up and the other wingers he's competing for a spot against, this is the line he effectively NEEDS to play on.

I'm sure that one of the aforementioned wingers will miss a game at some point, and I fully expect him to be given an opportunity in an elevated role. Perhaps if he performs well, we will need to reconsider our winger depth chart.

Right now, this is just reality. We have the following players that can conceivably be 3rd liners: Connor, Armia, Copp, Lowry, Petan, Dano, Hendricks, Sgarbossa, Roslovic, Lemieux.... This is your talent pool and it's entirely defensible for Lowry and Armia to play on the 3rd line given that group. If you're suggesting Petan or Copp at 3C, or Dano at RW, that perhaps makes some sense but again, why are you suggesting this (if you are)? All have their drawbacks. What I'm saying is, you can't just say "Connor should be playing with better teammates" without saying how this can be made possible and defending your position - it's just not reality!

So what exactly are you suggesting?

 

[kittiecarlyle]

So who would be on the left wing on your third line in order to promote Connor into the Top 6? Laine? Wheeler? Ehlers? All clearly superior players to Connor right now, so seems pretty nonsensical to play them down the line-up.

Perreault? Well, he has a proven track record, statistically, of making good players even better, so I would suggest he's someone we would prefer to use in the Top 6 - his Corsi and advanced stats clearly suggest he is a Top 6 player.

Where do you suggest we play Connor in the Top 6 if he can't supplant Laine, Wheeler, Ehlers or Perreault? At centre over Scheif or Little - he's not a centre and they're both exceptional NHL players, so that's out....

What then? Are you planning to sign Sid the Kid and a reincarnated Jean Beliveau to form a new 3rd line to give Kyle Connor the calibre of teammates you'd like him to play with?

My point isn't that it's an ideal place for him - my point is that given the reality of our team make up and the other wingers he's competing for a spot against, this is the line he effectively NEEDS to play on.

I'm sure that one of the aforementioned wingers will miss a game at some point, and I fully expect him to be given an opportunity in an elevated role. Perhaps if he performs well, we will need to reconsider our winger depth chart.

Right now, this is just reality. The one and only argument that I can understand would be playing Petan at 3C, but he did nothing last year to make me think he would be an impact player in a top 9 NHL role (plus he's not great defensively nor in the faceoff dot, making it even more difficult to play him at C in the Central division). But at least that could make sense as an argument and would provide a more offensive player in the C slot on the 3rd line for him to play with.

So what exactly are you suggesting?

To quote The Talking Heads " Stop Making Sense". Actually please don't, it is more than refreshing here.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Chiarot - Nogier pairing is straight out of my nightmares. I really hope that this doesn't mean that they think of Nogier as #8. But again we'll see.

 

[tbcwpg]

Chiarot - Nogier pairing is straight out of my nightmares. I really hope that this doesn't mean that they think of Nogier as #8. But again we'll see.

I don't think we see any of Group A starting on the roster apart from Chiarot. I think Nogier is the de facto 8 from last season. I hope Niku and Poolman supplant him quickly. Poolman may already have done.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Chiarot - Nogier pairing is straight out of my nightmares. I really hope that this doesn't mean that they think of Nogier as #8. But again we'll see.

Poolman may be ahead of both those guys after preseason. Although I still think Chiarot is the press box guy and Poolman will begin with the Moose. Nogier is a non factor IMO unless our D gets decimated

 

[Huffer]

Poolman may be ahead of both those guys after preseason. Although I still think Chiarot is the press box guy and Poolman will begin with the Moose. Nogier is a non factor IMO unless our D gets decimated

I agree. I think very soon (if not right away) Poolman becomes the Jets 7th best D man.

That being said, I think he (Poolman) still starts the season with the Moose and gets a lot of games in on the top pair.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Poolman may be ahead of both those guys after preseason. Although I still think Chiarot is the press box guy and Poolman will begin with the Moose. Nogier is a non factor IMO unless our D gets decimated

I think a lot of people overrated him based on just not being terrible when we needed him last year. Others say he was terrible.

Maybe after another couple of years of development in the A he can become an NHL player at some level. He is not there now.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I think a lot of people overrated him based on just not being terrible when we needed him last year. Others say he was terrible.

Maybe after another couple of years of development in the A he can become an NHL player at some level. He is not there now.

Melchiori is likely ahead of him on the depth chart as well

 

[Aavco Cup]

Afternoon lines & pairings

 

[Chewmasey]

Group A looks like a moose lineup, Group B looks like what mostly represents the final roster.....minus Stanley.
Interesting.

Dano/Tanev is really only a question mark.

 

[jungles]

Copp-Hendricks-Tanev
Matthias-Roslovic-Petan

*sigh*

 

[Aavco Cup]

Started part 2 early so I can still amend the OP as cuts happen

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2389287

 

[libertarian]

Copp-Hendricks-Tanev
Matthias-Roslovic-Petan

*sigh*

Actually than may be a interesting line.

 

[jungles]

Actually than may be a interesting line.

I don't disagree. The sigh was for the one listed (and most likely playing) ahead of them.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Continue here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2389287