Speculation: Trades that didn't happen

deca guard

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Jun 22, 2019
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in detroit ive a feeling yzerman never planned on trading glendenny out of respect for the player unless somebody made him a crazy offer .
if you follow detroit you can see glennys a respected leader amongst players and no doubt respected by front office for his effort and competitive come to play every day attitude , a coaches dream
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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I'm surprised Ryan Murray and Luke Glendening didn't move, Coburn and Nash, got 7th round picks and in Nash's case it could be a 6th, I don't believe there wasn't a 7th round pick out there for Murray or Glendening makes me REALLY interested in what they get as UFA

Teams were obviously scared off by Murray's back problem. He'd have been worth at least a 2nd, he's a top 4D when playing. But GMs don't want to be the guy that trades for a player who gets injured. Personally I think going for the Cup is always a low-chance proposition where you push in your chips. Murray has a high pay-off, he's really good. But they don't want the reputational risk.

Glendening's defensive chops are hard to discern from the stats, it looks like he gets worse results than his teammates. I think this might just be a case where the pro scouts figured that out and shot down the idea. That and Jim Rutherford isn't a GM right now and the Canucks are sellers this year.

I remember reading Burkie saying something along the lines of "one deadline we didn't get the offers we wanted for some of our UFA guys so rather than sell them cheap we just held onto them. I got some flak for it but to me it's better to not set the precedent that you'll bargain down". Something along those lines.

I don't agree with it - to me if you're not gonna make it and they're not part of your solution going forward, sell anything that's not nailed down (like Det did with Mantha) but I understand the logic

It makes sense to me if you think a player is worth a 3rd and you only get offered a 5th. The next time you're selling a big piece you don't want them to come at you like used car dealers. But if it's a 1st or 2nd, take what you can.

There were probably lots of trades that didn't happen involving Nashville. They were expected to sell off Granlund and Ekholm.

I'm betting lots of teams inquired leading up to the deadline. Based on the Palmieri and Savard trades, Nashville might have gotten two 1st rounders. But they turned down whatever offers they received.

You'd think. But the returns at the deadline rarely scale up in a linear sensical way. High end players get mostly the same return as middle ranked players - a 1st round pick. Throw in 2 or 3 B prospects if the guy is really good.

That's why Columbus made out well. It's not that Jarmo is a wizard, though that helps. They had two middle of the lineup players with great playoff reputations, and that's what those players traditionally cost. They each returned almost the same price Jarmo paid for Duchene.
 

Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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Teams were obviously scared off by Murray's back problem. He'd have been worth at least a 2nd, he's a top 4D when playing. But GMs don't want to be the guy that trades for a player who gets injured. Personally I think going for the Cup is always a low-chance proposition where you push in your chips. Murray has a high pay-off, he's really good. But they don't want the reputational risk.

Glendening's defensive chops are hard to discern from the stats, it looks like he gets worse results than his teammates. I think this might just be a case where the pro scouts figured that out and shot down the idea. That and Jim Rutherford isn't a GM right now and the Canucks are sellers this year.



It makes sense to me if you think a player is worth a 3rd and you only get offered a 5th. The next time you're selling a big piece you don't want them to come at you like used car dealers. But if it's a 1st or 2nd, take what you can.



You'd think. But the returns at the deadline rarely scale up in a linear sensical way. High end players get mostly the same return as middle ranked players - a 1st round pick. Throw in 2 or 3 B prospects if the guy is really good.

That's why Columbus made out well. It's not that Jarmo is a wizard, though that helps. They had two middle of the lineup players with great playoff reputations, and that's what those players traditionally cost. They each returned almost the same price Jarmo paid for Duchene.

I think a factor in the trades ignored here....

if the same gm acquired this player a few years ago it comes of as an embarrassment to him if he gets back far less than he paid.

if prior gm acquired/signed him and he’d not your guy you aren’t concerned in return. You do are if this players is respected in the league but he doesn’t fit the new coaches system or is now redundant because of other transactions or player development.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Inclined to be surprised that neither Buch nor Strome were dealt, as in the bigger picture the need to give their mins to merging elc counterparts outweighs uphill playoff run. Howev, I am not surprised that the exp dr need to protect afterwards has impaired ability of teams to pay for a guy when there is a cost in the exp dr.
Thankfully, immediately after the season, there should be enough roster changes also freeing up cap that both will be dealt for futures, pref picks, pref before exp dr.

Surprised Brendan Smith did not go for a 4th or even a 5th, but I wouldn't be surprised if in this case GMJG was holding out for a 3rd, given BS has toughness which is useful this final stretch of games. Still, should have taken lesser pick and promoted a tuf guy.

Am willing to keep Blackwell next season.

New lineup should be:
Kakko-Krav-Panarin
LaF-Chytil-Gauthier
Kreider-Zib-Blackwell

Some other Fs who don't make final 3 cut can be dealt.
Bring up mo kids!
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,152
37,330
Sakic said in his presser that they were glad to get Nemeth and Dubnyk deals done over the weekend so they could invest their time into something bigger on Monday. He then went on to say he was working on something bigger but it never came to fruition.

Joe doesn’t usually feed that much info. Probably also falls in line with what Pagnotta said a few hours before the deadline.



Perhaps they were in on Mantha?
 
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nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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That seems like Jarmo just throwing chit at the wall trying to do something on a sinking ship. Not really sure what Jarmo could have offered Yzerman even in the ballpark of what Washington gave up. Pretty confident in saying Yzerman would want nothing to do with a player like in Domi. He probably could have had Roslovic for a song earlier in the year if he wanted him from Winnipeg.

Can't imagine Jones or Werenski were even on the table for for Mantha (but maybe thats what Yzerman asked for).

So the bottom line question is if Jarmo was in pretty far on trying to acquire Mantha, what was he offering? Based on the actual Mantha trade, it needed more than just picks and prospects.

Running down the roster, you have to wonder if Jarmo was trying to cut bait on Laine and have Mantha for Laine as the centerpieces of a trade (maybe Jarmo already has a good idea that future contract negotiations with Laine are not going to go well or have him around long term)
I think the draft picks were a major part of it amd CLB 1st/2nd would be better than WSH. Add in Nyquist or Roslovic and it's pretty similar
 

Ice Mammoth

Registered User
Mar 14, 2021
544
195
DETROIT RED WINGS
Jakub Vrana (@ 50% Ret) - ???

ST. LOUIS BLUES
Alternative reality. :popcorn:
Exchange of three players into one team.

Jaden Schwartz $5,350,000
Tyler Bozak $5,000,000
Mike Hoffman $4,000,000
Total: $14,350,000 - (@ 50% Ret) = $7,175,000
Third team: $7,175,000 - (@ 50% Ret) = $3,587,500

BLUES

Alexander Kerfoot = $3,500,000
LEAFS

Jaden Schwartz
Tyler Bozak
Mike Hoffman
LEAFS = Stanley Cup Winner (95%) :)

BLUES
J.T. Compher = $3,500,000
AVALANCHE

Jaden Schwartz $5,350,000
Tyler Bozak $5,000,000
Mike Hoffman $4,000,000
AVALANCHE = Stanley Cup Winner (95%) :)

What BLUES could get??? :help:
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
DETROIT RED WINGS
Jakub Vrana (@ 50% Ret) - ???

ST. LOUIS BLUES
Alternative reality. :popcorn:
Exchange of three players into one team.

Jaden Schwartz $5,350,000
Tyler Bozak $5,000,000
Mike Hoffman $4,000,000
Total: $14,350,000 - (@ 50% Ret) = $7,175,000
Third team: $7,175,000 - (@ 50% Ret) = $3,587,500

BLUES

Alexander Kerfoot = $3,500,000
LEAFS

Jaden Schwartz
Tyler Bozak
Mike Hoffman
LEAFS = Stanley Cup Winner (95%) :)

BLUES
J.T. Compher = $3,500,000
AVALANCHE

Jaden Schwartz $5,350,000
Tyler Bozak $5,000,000
Mike Hoffman $4,000,000
AVALANCHE = Stanley Cup Winner (95%) :)

What BLUES could get??? :help:

Lol that was just awful for blues
 

TheKrebsCycle

Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Jun 1, 2011
6,405
2,002
Barrie
Where did you see Toronto passed and that Hall wanted to go there?

Think it was Chris Johnson or Friedman that said they heard that Toronto didn't push very hard for Hall and that Foligno was "their guy ". It's also been widely reported that Hall greatly limited the trade options via his no trade clause.
 

HawkeyTalkMan

Registered User
Jun 23, 2015
6,271
3,445
I think the draft picks were a major part of it amd CLB 1st/2nd would be better than WSH. Add in Nyquist or Roslovic and it's pretty similar
what kind of value is Nyquist who is likely done for the season, when he will be 32 next time he plays and is coming off a blown out shoulder?
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
5,443
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Arlington, TX
Hey,

Every year I ask about rumors of deals that almost happened.

Heard D'Angelo to habs almost happened

Anything else?

And some years, I post this response. Back when Doug Armstrong was the Stars GM, they had a season ticket holders lunch, and it was right after the trade deadline in 2004. Someone asked how these deals go down.

DA said its usually in steps, and the first one is the hardest (with a chuckle) because you don't want to insult a fellow GM or their body of work (i.e., assembled team) so he would tread lightly, starting with:

"You guys have had some terrible luck this year because I had you pegged as a sure playoff team. But IF (and I say IF) things continue not going your way, AND you would consider trading a few players, I MIGHT have an interest in X, because he would help our chances. So, I am curious what your ask MIGHT be if you were even willing to move that player. So, give it some thought, and we'll touch base in a few days."

I took it the asking price was usually a bit high (but not ridiculous, because all GM's know that they may need to deal with the other GM's at any point in the future) and perhaps more generic, like "A first, a mid pack D, and an NHL ready prospect.) They wouldn't offer names, at least until they got their scouts to weigh in on what prospects they liked off the other team's list.

The callback would usually happen one way or the other, again, out of courtesy between GM's. The GM with the asset could obviously go several ways, but would probably express interest in seeing what the other team might offer that met his needs. Then the GM might throw out names. DA gave an example of when the Stars were rumored to want to acquire D man Brian Leetch from the Rangers, with rumors centering on the non-existent factor of the Stars wanting to acquire the only (then) native Texan in the NHL.

He said the Rangers GM wanted prospects, and they did end up trading him to TOR for two prospects and a first. DA said we fans wouldn't know any of the names, even though a few are avid draft followers. My guess was Jussi Jokinen, but I'll never know.

My takeaway was that it would be difficult to assess what trades "didn't happen" given the two (or three) GM's sort of have to inch towards each other, all while both are exploring other options at the same time. Exciting for fans to contemplate, maybe even for the GM's but not a job I would want to do.

In a separate incident, I sat next to Bob Gainey on a plane once, and over two hours, he graciously allowed me to pepper him with similar questions. He also gave many examples of trades that got going in the rumor mills, that were never even discussed, or never discussed more than in passing between two GM's at a cocktail party, including one, where a GM asked him, "So, what about Modano for Molgilny" which was never serious, but got reported somehow....maybe because the GM shouted it across the room, LOL, and a reporter heard, and put it up as a scoop, just in case.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
21,434
15,442
what kind of value is Nyquist who is likely done for the season, when he will be 32 next time he plays and is coming off a blown out shoulder?
Not much, but Columbus 1st and 2nd is much more valuable than Washington's too. I also mentioned Roslovic
 

IceNeophyte

Registered User
Nov 14, 2017
10,006
7,314
Hey,

Every year I ask about rumors of deals that almost happened.

Heard D'Angelo to habs almost happened

Anything else?

It's hard to say DeAngelo almost happened when he was offered a mutual contract termination and DeAngelo said, "Nope, you're paying me."
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,230
8,314
Where did you see Toronto passed and that Hall wanted to go there?

Bob Mack flat out said toronto didn’t want hall.

he absolutely wanted to come here last year. Even bought a house. I think this year he wanted to go to Boston first. They are the team that can offer him a chance of re signing. They have 28 million next year.


Toronto (rightly or wrongly) didn’t want hall.
 

EP to Kuzmenko

Registered User
Dec 5, 2015
3,718
1,310
Canucks asked one of Edler or Sutter to waive for a deal, but the trade was nixed.

From his presser yesterday.
Sutter only has a 15 team NTC that was submitted beforehand. This is only true for him if the team(s) that were on that list were the only ones asking.
 

Ice Mammoth

Registered User
Mar 14, 2021
544
195
Yeah but no.

I wrote “What BLUES could get???”
I'm surprised BLUES didn't need player compensation (UFA). o_O

First-round pick 2021 (2022), Prospert A…???

The compensation could be negotiated.
Is this bad for the club? :skeptic:
There could be many options.

I didn't expect BLUES to be such a generous club.
Good luck signing players this summer (UFA). :huh:
 

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