Proposal: Trade Rumors and Proposals: Are You Out of Your Faulkin' Mind?

[Musashi]

Paying $20M or more for two forwards (which is what we'd be looking at in a year or two down the road) makes it a lot harder to build anything around them. Sure you can bring him in and trade other parts for D, but there's no way you can keep any kind of quality together for more than a couple of years with that kind of cash tied up on your top line.

To me the idea of adding Stamkos is just doubling down on the same top-heavy model that's kept the Oilers in the basement for the last five years.

Yes, the numbers game is a very fair argument against Stamkos. Trying to say that he is declining and might turn into Semin is nonsense. I know not you (hopefully), but my argument for Stammer is I'd rather have 20M tied up in two generational players/goal scorers than entertaining the idea of guys like RNH/Eberle or replacing them with your typical UFAs/expendable players like the Erickson's of the world to do the job good enough at a lower but still expensive cost.

I'm not a fan of comparing to other teams models as I think every team's players and situations make them unique but the obvious comparison is Chicago operating with Toews/Kane contracts. I think the most important thing to see in that situation is how they've installed that type of leadership and skill up top and how it helps them get the most out of role players and young guys coming in on their ELCs.

I know none of the matters without defense and the reason I don't like my comparison to Chicago is that we will never duplicate a Duncan Keith or even a Seabrook. Still, I see benefit in building around McD and SS while making everyone else expendable and not apart of the future. My guess is that it gives us more options.

 

[belair]

I think $5.5m for Eriksson is unrealistic.

This is a guy that's going to have a lot of potential suitors if he decides not to go back to Boston. And its likely the last chance for him cash in and he's coming off a 30 goal, 63 point season.

To be even more negative, I could see Benning throwing some insane dollars at him to be the Sedin's RW in an effort to save his job.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

but he didnt need to get his top rib removed to alleviate the pressure

I have no idea, I suspect in any event, he's suffering no ill effects from it.

 

[Hemsky4PM]

I expect Stamkos to sign with the Leafs for around 8.5M x 7 years. It will be a bad deal for about 4 of the 7 years.

I honestly cannot see Tampa resigning him when they have other players to deal with, including Hedman and Kucherov.

Tampa can use the money saved from Stamkos to sign two good players. I think deep down, the Lightning have already moved passed Stamkos. He's not going to be there next season.

 

[Young Lions*]

Yes, the numbers game is a very fair argument against Stamkos. Trying to say that he is declining and might turn into Semin is nonsense. I know not you (hopefully), but my argument for Stammer is I'd rather have 20M tied up in two generational players/goal scorers than entertaining the idea of guys like RNH/Eberle or replacing them with your typical UFAs/expendable players like the Erickson's of the world to do the job good enough at a lower but still expensive cost.

I'm not a fan of comparing to other teams models as I think every team's players and situations make them unique but the obvious comparison is Chicago operating with Toews/Kane contracts. I think the most important thing to see in that situation is how they've installed that type of leadership and skill up top and how it helps them get the most out of role players and young guys coming in on their ELCs.


I know none of the matters without defense and the reason I don't like my comparison to Chicago is that we will never duplicate a Duncan Keith or even a Seabrook. Still, I see benefit in building around McD and SS while making everyone else expendable and not apart of the future. My guess is that it gives us more options.

The thing for me about the Chicago model these guys are getting paid based on what they've accomplished, whereas we'd be paying McDavid and Stamkos in the hope they could get to that level. It's a key difference IMO.

We have no idea how those contracts will impact Chicago's ability to retain depth talent and stay competitive long term. They've drafted well in the past, but retaining those players will be an issue at some point, plus they only have four picks in the first three rounds in the next three years so they'll need some luck to keep the pipeline flowing. Those big contracts to Kane and Towes and Seabrook are going to help drag the Hawks down to the pack sooner than later, mark my words.

 

[SometimesY]

No to Stamkos. We have 6 million dollar forwards, we dont need to add a more expensive one who is healing from a blood issue and has had a broken leg. Lets use a 6 million dollar guy to trade for a dman. Improves d, doesn't ruin cap situation, doesnt give us another forward to fear losing to expansion.

 

[lakai17]

Werenski playing phenomenal in the AHL playoffs boys.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

I think $5.5m for Eriksson is unrealistic.

This is a guy that's going to have a lot of potential suitors if he decides not to go back to Boston. And its likely the last chance for him cash in and he's coming off a 30 goal, 63 point season.

To be even more negative, I could see Benning throwing some insane dollars at him to be the Sedin's RW in an effort to save his job.

Very valid points, all. If Benning looses out on Looch, I can very much seem him throwing around some desperate, MacT-style contracts like candy.

 

[McSuper]

Stamkos won't sign for 7.5. The NHLPA won't allow it, at minimum he'll get 9M per.

The NHLPA has nothing to do with it . His agent gets an offer and presents it to Stamkos if he signs it done . There is no one from the NHLPA involved .

 

[Spawn]

RNH:
Age: 22 (didn't turn 23 until after the season)
GP: 313
Points: 222
PPG: 0.71

Bolded Player X from Above:
Age: 22
GP: 242
Points: 104
PPG: 0.43

Bolded Player Y from Above:
Age: 22 --> 0 NHL games played
Age: 23 --> 70gp, 35 points = 0.50
Age: 24 --> 64gp, 51 points = 0.80 ironically this guy's 2nd season, at age 24 (which is two years from now in RNH terms) was NEARLY IDENTICAL to RNH's 18-year old rookie season.

Now two of the guys in that list are (and were) far above RNH's demonstrated capabilities through age 22, but then again, they were playing in the 1980's, so it's tough.

Anyway... the point is... RNH has accomplished FAR MORE than two of the guys in the list you think are ridiculous comparisons. You might want to have researched it a little yourself first, because the stats do not support your position.

Why is a good #3D equal in value to a good #2C? One guy is in the top 60 at his position, the other guy in the top 90. I don't think if you mapped out an NHL-wide depth chart you would be happy trading the 60th best center for the 90th best defenseman.

I've looked at the numbers.

Using your game range from above:
RNH : 19:28 per game
Henrik Sedin: 13:25 per game

The Sedins broke into the league on the 3rd line and played there for the first 4 years of their NHL career. Then they got a bump in ice time and offensive opportunity and their offensive production subsequently climbed. Once they were getting the type of minutes RNH has gotten from day one they were PPG+ players.

Ditto for Pavel Datsyuk. Broke onto a team that had 10 future hall of famers and was playing 13:30~ a night as a rookie. As his ice time and offensive opportunities increased so did his offensive production.

RNH broke into the league and for his entire career has been getting every single offensive opportunity with the teams best offensive players. There's no way for RNHs offensive time to increase. If anything, as McDavid and Draisaitl develop RNH will start seeing fewer and fewer offensive opportunities and more and more defensive responsibilities. That's not going to help his offensive production.

People take these exceptional situations with certain players and either don't look at the context or ignore it. And then go "see, it happened with player X, it will happen with RNH too." It doesn't work that way.

As for why I think a good #3 D is worth as much as a good #2C. I think there are fewer good defensemen in the league than there are good centermen. Just because someone plays the spot doesn't mean their suited for the spot. I think Ellis is a player who is suited for that #3 d spot.

 

[PaPaDee]

The NHLPA has nothing to do with it . His agent gets an offer and presents it to Stamkos if he signs it done . There is no one from the NHLPA involved .

It's naive to think that the PA isn't putting pressure on Stamkos and his agent to ensure his contract is in line with what other players of his ilk are signing for. Players who sign for discounts will typically hear about it from the PA.

 

[McSuper]

I'd consider Pominville if we traded Eberle (Not directed to you, but to the quote in your post). Other than that, I'm not interested.

The Wild needs a centre . It would have to be something like

RNH + 2nd for Brodin + Pominville . Here we take on about 3.5 million in cap . Pominville Takes Eberle place for a few years .

Eberle for Barrie . Sign Barrie for 6X5 Barrie and Eberle salary is a wash

Sign the bigger Demers move Fayne and a draft pick to TML for futures

Move Yakupov for picks . Sign a UFA right winger

Hall Draisaitl Pominville
Maroon McD UFA
Pouliot Shaw Kassian

Klefbom Barrie
Brodin Demers
Davidson Sekera

If Klefbom takes another step we have a legit top pairing if not we have 3 decent pairs

 

[McWeber]

The Wild needs a centre . It would have to be something like

RNH + 2nd for Brodin + Pominville . Here we take on about 3.5 million in cap . Pominville Takes Eberle place for a few years .

Eberle for Barrie . Sign Barrie for 6X5 Barrie and Eberle salary is a wash

Sign the bigger Demers move Fayne and a draft pick to TML for futures

Move Yakupov for picks . Sign a UFA right winger

Hall Draisaitl Pominville
Maroon McD UFA
Pouliot Shaw Kassian

Klefbom Barrie
Brodin Demers
Davidson Sekera

If Klefbom takes another step we have a legit top pairing if not we have 3 decent pairs

Nuge+2nd for Brodin and Pominville....that made me throw up in my mouth a little.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Werenski playing phenomenal in the AHL playoffs boys.

Justin Schultz played phenomenal in the AHL. We need to focus on NHL help

 

[Raab]

If Minnesota is looking for cap relief I'd be alright taking on Vanek's contract for 1 year. Put him on Mcdavids wing and drop Pouliot down to the 3rd line.

 

[belair]

The Wild needs a centre . It would have to be something like

RNH + 2nd for Brodin + Pominville . Here we take on about 3.5 million in cap . Pominville Takes Eberle place for a few years .

Eberle for Barrie . Sign Barrie for 6X5 Barrie and Eberle salary is a wash

Sign the bigger Demers move Fayne and a draft pick to TML for futures

Move Yakupov for picks . Sign a UFA right winger

Hall Draisaitl Pominville
Maroon McD UFA
Pouliot Shaw Kassian

Klefbom Barrie
Brodin Demers
Davidson Sekera

If Klefbom takes another step we have a legit top pairing if not we have 3 decent pairs

So we overpay for Brodin and then alleviate their cap situation by taking on Pominville's contract?

I had more points than Brodin last year.

For **** sakes, people.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I wonder if the Avs, who don't seem to care about analytics, would trade Barrie to the Rangers in a package that included Dan Girardi coming back their way?

 

[TheMustardTiger]

So we overpay for Brodin and then alleviate their cap situation by taking on Pominville's contract?

I had more points than Brodin last year.

For **** sakes, people.

Also paying a 3rd pairing Dman 4.2 Mil plus doesn't make sense either.

 

[lakai17]

Justin Schultz played phenomenal in the AHL. We need to focus on NHL help

What you need to understand is that Werenski will be NHL ready quicker than you believe.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The Wild needs a centre . It would have to be something like

RNH + 2nd for Brodin + Pominville . Here we take on about 3.5 million in cap . Pominville Takes Eberle place for a few years .

Eberle for Barrie . Sign Barrie for 6X5 Barrie and Eberle salary is a wash

Sign the bigger Demers move Fayne and a draft pick to TML for futures

Move Yakupov for picks . Sign a UFA right winger

Hall Draisaitl Pominville
Maroon McD UFA
Pouliot Shaw Kassian

Klefbom Barrie
Brodin Demers
Davidson Sekera

If Klefbom takes another step we have a legit top pairing if not we have 3 decent pairs

This is awful, McSuper. I wouldn't take Pominville for free. He only looked halfway decent this year when he got as far away from tough matchups as humanly possible.

 

[joestevens29]

It's naive to think that the PA isn't putting pressure on Stamkos and his agent to ensure his contract is in line with what other players of his ilk are signing for. Players who sign for discounts will typically hear about it from the PA.

Not anymore. No matter what the players get x amount of the pot. Back in the day when there wasn't a defined split there was pressure.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

What you need to understand is that Werenski will be NHL ready quicker than you believe.

Maybe don't make assumptions about people...

Werenski is a fantastic D prospect. As is Nurse. Klefbom, Davidson and Reinhart are all very young. Why not go out and get a guy who already is what Werenski will one day become?

Even if he's ready to play next year, we need someone with more experience next year.

 

[Musashi]

The thing for me about the Chicago model these guys are getting paid based on what they've accomplished, whereas we'd be paying McDavid and Stamkos in the hope they could get to that level. It's a key difference IMO.

We have no idea how those contracts will impact Chicago's ability to retain depth talent and stay competitive long term. They've drafted well in the past, but retaining those players will be an issue at some point, plus they only have four picks in the first three rounds in the next three years so they'll need some luck to keep the pipeline flowing. Those big contracts to Kane and Towes and Seabrook are going to help drag the Hawks down to the pack sooner than later, mark my words.

Chicago will decline once age catches up to guys like Keith and Seabrook. Nothing about their play this year suggested to me that they won’t be a contender with the cap room they have to work with under their core.

You make a good point about paying guys for what they’ve achieved but unfortunately that does not apply to a team in our position. Say we don’t win a playoff series in the next two years under McDavid’s ELC, is there any reason to not pay him what he will most likely deserve or should we make sure we hold at a 6-7M price point when negotiating a long term deal because he has yet to win anything?

 

[Young Lions*]

As for why I think a good #3 D is worth as much as a good #2C. I think there are fewer good defensemen in the league than there are good centermen. Just because someone plays the spot doesn't mean their suited for the spot. I think Ellis is a player who is suited for that #3 d spot.

#3D are far, far, far easier acquire than a good #2C. There's usually a half dozen or so out in free agency each and every year.

 

[belair]

What you need to understand is that Werenski will be NHL ready quicker than you believe.

We don't need Werenski and Columbus has no reason to move him.