Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Gearing Up for the Off-season Editon

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yianik

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
10,696
6,138
Tremblay didn't run Roy out of town. That was Ron Corey's call and he'd have made the trade no matter who the coach was. In any conflict between player and coach, Habs management always sides with the coach and gets rid of the player. The only time it didn't happen that way was when Henri Richard called out Al MacNeil during the 71 finals. After the playoffs Sam Pollock sent his Cup-winning coach to the minors and hired Scotty Bowman. Other than that, the coach always wins out.

When Lafleur chafed at being constrained by Lemaire's stifling defensive system, management pushed him into premature retirement. Roy was a guy who was often "difficult" to deal with and management had toyed with the idea of trading him a few times before they pulled the trigger. I wouldn't be shocked if it comesout one day that Tremblay was given either implicit or explicit instructions from Corey to put an end to the country club, "play as much or as little as you want" approach with Roy that Demers had used.

And we all know what happened to Subban when he ran afoul of his coach.

The Habs are, above all else, a corporate entity with a clear chain of command - well, clear at least to the extent that the players are at the bottom of the organizational chart, that is. They don't get to say what goes and what doesn't and sometimes, when you're dealing with a player who happens to have an ego, like Lafleur or Roy or Subban, it doesn't end well. But the Habs have done this enough times to enough Hall of Fame players to demonstrate that they care about being in control more than they care about having talented players. They will sacrifice that talent in order to assert their authority every time. That model worked just fine back in the old days when the players had no power. But today all that approach gets you is pennies on the dollar when you decide to trade your talented but "individualistic" player for non-hockey reasons.

Well said and quite accurate.

One of the reasons I was hopeful of MB when he landed here was that I was tired of us ejecting players because they were a bit colourful or rough around the edges, and I thought that he came from an organization that dealt with Patrick Kane, and they never traded him. Kane here when he was doing all his nonsense would have been long gone from here. Anyway, nobody here like Kane. but the coach over the player philosophy lives strong here. Personally I would fire a coach on the spot if he told me PK was a problem.
 

gillyguzzler

Registered User
Jan 21, 2007
2,966
701
Ontario
All year, there have been rumours of divisions in the dressing room between the workers with winning attitudes and the lazies with loser attitudes.

Then the main focus of Bergevin's "excuse" for losing is exactly this. He says only 5, maybe 6 players had winning attitudes.

Even Molson said that those with bad attitudes would not be back.

That's 15 to 20 players to replace. Bergevin will be busy.
 

Laurentide

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
3,277
3,458
Edmonton, Alberta
When evaluating his players Bergevin is obsessed with esoteric things like "attitude" and "Ka-RACK-ter" when he should be focused on actual, quantifiable things like goals and assists. Personally I don't care if a player has a good attitude or not so long as he produces. Pierre Larouche had a terrible attitude and a mediocre work ethic during his stint with the Habs but he still scored 50 goals so nobody really cared.
 

SakuKoivu11

Registered User
Jun 29, 2017
2,595
1,787
Why the Pittsburgh and Chicago model will will work if we sign John Tavares.

Consider paying your top 5-6 guys over 50 % of the cap space.

Pittsburgh Crosby Malkin Kessel Letang eat up about $33 mil of their teams which is 42% of their cap. Add in Schultz and Homqvist $44 mil for 6 guys which is close to 60% of their cap. So that left them with $31 million for 17 players for full roster.

Chicago paid their top 6 Toews Kane Saad Keith Seabrook and Crawford $46 million which is about 61% of their cap space.

While Chicago had a down year, Pittsburgh I would say is a Cup contender.

Let’s take Montreal for example. Who are our top 6 players? Price Weber Pacioretty Gallagher Drouin Galchenyuk eat up about $37 million. Let’s not kid ourselves our players are no where near what Chicago or Pittsburgh have yet Pittsburgh paid $5 million more and Chicago paid $8 million more than us. What Pittsburgh and Chicago has in common is they win at least two Cups in the past 6 years.

So what does Pittsburgh and Chicago also have in common? Toews Kane Malkin Crosby see a pattern Marc Bergevin?

Talent and top centres. They use their cap for talented centres then build the rest of their team with character and “attitude”.

Just give Tavares what he wants. Build around Price Tavares and Weber. Start the “reset” by trading Pacioretty Galchenyuk for high draft picks while replenishing our talent pool. If Pacioretty and or Galchenyuk can get you a potential top 6 Center do it. If he can get you a high first round pick do it.

We must build from the Center. Once we have centres we can fill out the wingers. We have Drouin Lehkonen Gallagher Scherbak Byron who can put the puck in the net. We need to address this in the summer or else we will fail.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,891
4,863
Well said and quite accurate.

One of the reasons I was hopeful of MB when he landed here was that I was tired of us ejecting players because they were a bit colourful or rough around the edges, and I thought that he came from an organization that dealt with Patrick Kane, and they never traded him. Kane here when he was doing all his nonsense would have been long gone from here. Anyway, nobody here like Kane. but the coach over the player philosophy lives strong here. Personally I would fire a coach on the spot if he told me PK was a problem.

Really. Thanks for the laugh.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,891
4,863
All year, there have been rumours of divisions in the dressing room between the workers with winning attitudes and the lazies with loser attitudes.

Then the main focus of Bergevin's "excuse" for losing is exactly this. He says only 5, maybe 6 players had winning attitudes.

Even Molson said that those with bad attitudes would not be back.

That's 15 to 20 players to replace. Bergevin will be busy.

lol. :)
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,891
4,863
Why the Pittsburgh and Chicago model will will work if we sign John Tavares.

Consider paying your top 5-6 guys over 50 % of the cap space.

Pittsburgh Crosby Malkin Kessel Letang eat up about $33 mil of their teams which is 42% of their cap. Add in Schultz and Homqvist $44 mil for 6 guys which is close to 60% of their cap. So that left them with $31 million for 17 players for full roster.

Chicago paid their top 6 Toews Kane Saad Keith Seabrook and Crawford $46 million which is about 61% of their cap space.

While Chicago had a down year, Pittsburgh I would say is a Cup contender.

Let’s take Montreal for example. Who are our top 6 players? Price Weber Pacioretty Gallagher Drouin Galchenyuk eat up about $37 million. Let’s not kid ourselves our players are no where near what Chicago or Pittsburgh have yet Pittsburgh paid $5 million more and Chicago paid $8 million more than us. What Pittsburgh and Chicago has in common is they win at least two Cups in the past 6 years.

So what does Pittsburgh and Chicago also have in common? Toews Kane Malkin Crosby see a pattern Marc Bergevin?

Talent and top centres. They use their cap for talented centres then build the rest of their team with character and “attitude”.

Just give Tavares what he wants. Build around Price Tavares and Weber. Start the “reset” by trading Pacioretty Galchenyuk for high draft picks while replenishing our talent pool. If Pacioretty and or Galchenyuk can get you a potential top 6 Center do it. If he can get you a high first round pick do it.

We must build from the Center. Once we have centres we can fill out the wingers. We have Drouin Lehkonen Gallagher Scherbak Byron who can put the puck in the net. We need to address this in the summer or else we will fail.

Agreed. Wouldn't trade Galchenyuk, though, unless a blue chip C was coming back our way. Not likely, so I'd keep him.
 

danyhabsfan

Registered User
Feb 12, 2007
8,227
3,042
Montreal
Why the Pittsburgh and Chicago model will will work if we sign John Tavares.

Consider paying your top 5-6 guys over 50 % of the cap space.

Pittsburgh Crosby Malkin Kessel Letang eat up about $33 mil of their teams which is 42% of their cap. Add in Schultz and Homqvist $44 mil for 6 guys which is close to 60% of their cap. So that left them with $31 million for 17 players for full roster.

Chicago paid their top 6 Toews Kane Saad Keith Seabrook and Crawford $46 million which is about 61% of their cap space.

While Chicago had a down year, Pittsburgh I would say is a Cup contender.

Let’s take Montreal for example. Who are our top 6 players? Price Weber Pacioretty Gallagher Drouin Galchenyuk eat up about $37 million. Let’s not kid ourselves our players are no where near what Chicago or Pittsburgh have yet Pittsburgh paid $5 million more and Chicago paid $8 million more than us. What Pittsburgh and Chicago has in common is they win at least two Cups in the past 6 years.

So what does Pittsburgh and Chicago also have in common? Toews Kane Malkin Crosby see a pattern Marc Bergevin?

Talent and top centres. They use their cap for talented centres then build the rest of their team with character and “attitude”.

Just give Tavares what he wants. Build around Price Tavares and Weber. Start the “reset” by trading Pacioretty Galchenyuk for high draft picks while replenishing our talent pool. If Pacioretty and or Galchenyuk can get you a potential top 6 Center do it. If he can get you a high first round pick do it.

We must build from the Center. Once we have centres we can fill out the wingers. We have Drouin Lehkonen Gallagher Scherbak Byron who can put the puck in the net. We need to address this in the summer or else we will fail.


Since Kane and Toews have a 10.5M cap hit, Chicago has done nothing...
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,496
14,085
Why the Pittsburgh and Chicago model will will work if we sign John Tavares.

Consider paying your top 5-6 guys over 50 % of the cap space.

Pittsburgh Crosby Malkin Kessel Letang eat up about $33 mil of their teams which is 42% of their cap. Add in Schultz and Homqvist $44 mil for 6 guys which is close to 60% of their cap. So that left them with $31 million for 17 players for full roster.

Chicago paid their top 6 Toews Kane Saad Keith Seabrook and Crawford $46 million which is about 61% of their cap space.

While Chicago had a down year, Pittsburgh I would say is a Cup contender.

Let’s take Montreal for example. Who are our top 6 players? Price Weber Pacioretty Gallagher Drouin Galchenyuk eat up about $37 million. Let’s not kid ourselves our players are no where near what Chicago or Pittsburgh have yet Pittsburgh paid $5 million more and Chicago paid $8 million more than us. What Pittsburgh and Chicago has in common is they win at least two Cups in the past 6 years.

So what does Pittsburgh and Chicago also have in common? Toews Kane Malkin Crosby see a pattern Marc Bergevin?

Talent and top centres. They use their cap for talented centres then build the rest of their team with character and “attitude”.

Just give Tavares what he wants. Build around Price Tavares and Weber. Start the “reset” by trading Pacioretty Galchenyuk for high draft picks while replenishing our talent pool. If Pacioretty and or Galchenyuk can get you a potential top 6 Center do it. If he can get you a high first round pick do it.

We must build from the Center. Once we have centres we can fill out the wingers. We have Drouin Lehkonen Gallagher Scherbak Byron who can put the puck in the net. We need to address this in the summer or else we will fail.

Chicago has never won a playoff series since Toews's and Kane's extentions kicked in. Pittsburgh struggled when their top guys made too much against the cap. Their top guys are also much better than Montreal's. But that's not really the issue. The issue is that both those teams margins for error in terms of contracts is low. Pittsburgh succeeded when they didn't have to carry really bad contracts. Chicago sank when they needed to carry really bad contracts.

And Montreal has bad contracts. Sign Tavares if you can of course. But Bergevin needs to admit Alzner (and Shaw to a lesser extent) was a mistake and find a way to clear them off.
 

DXStriker

Registered User
Nov 15, 2016
1,625
1,268
can MB buyout Karl?
He can and the details can be done on capfriendly but if i remember right ( yes i am too lazy to go look lol ) i think there is a cap hit if 1.7ish mil to 3.something for the next 3 years and then a cap hit of 1.something for 3 yrs after that
 

webersshot

Registered User
Jul 6, 2016
3,244
2,110
Nova Scotia
Does Patches get it done?
If it’s 9th overall? Cory Schneider got the 8th pick from the devils. So yeah. I think so. And if there’s a guy there that Timmins and bergy like I could see it happening. Fully expect lucic’s name to be in the conversation too
 

loudi94

Master of my Domain
Jul 8, 2003
8,516
1,550
Alberta
If it’s 9th overall? Cory Schneider got the 8th pick from the devils. So yeah. I think so. And if there’s a guy there that Timmins and bergy like I could see it happening. Fully expect lucic’s name to be in the conversation too
Patches and Alzner for Lucic and a first?
 
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webersshot

Registered User
Jul 6, 2016
3,244
2,110
Nova Scotia
Why the Pittsburgh and Chicago model will will work if we sign John Tavares.

Consider paying your top 5-6 guys over 50 % of the cap space.

Pittsburgh Crosby Malkin Kessel Letang eat up about $33 mil of their teams which is 42% of their cap. Add in Schultz and Homqvist $44 mil for 6 guys which is close to 60% of their cap. So that left them with $31 million for 17 players for full roster.

Chicago paid their top 6 Toews Kane Saad Keith Seabrook and Crawford $46 million which is about 61% of their cap space.

While Chicago had a down year, Pittsburgh I would say is a Cup contender.

Let’s take Montreal for example. Who are our top 6 players? Price Weber Pacioretty Gallagher Drouin Galchenyuk eat up about $37 million. Let’s not kid ourselves our players are no where near what Chicago or Pittsburgh have yet Pittsburgh paid $5 million more and Chicago paid $8 million more than us. What Pittsburgh and Chicago has in common is they win at least two Cups in the past 6 years.

So what does Pittsburgh and Chicago also have in common? Toews Kane Malkin Crosby see a pattern Marc Bergevin?

Talent and top centres. They use their cap for talented centres then build the rest of their team with character and “attitude”.

Just give Tavares what he wants. Build around Price Tavares and Weber. Start the “reset” by trading Pacioretty Galchenyuk for high draft picks while replenishing our talent pool. If Pacioretty and or Galchenyuk can get you a potential top 6 Center do it. If he can get you a high first round pick do it.

We must build from the Center. Once we have centres we can fill out the wingers. We have Drouin Lehkonen Gallagher Scherbak Byron who can put the puck in the net. We need to address this in the summer or else we will fail.

I would definitely pay tavares what he wants. Would not trade galchenyuk though. That kid is special.
 

mariolemieux66

Registered User
Sep 17, 2008
16,315
7,252
Vancouver
Good god no. Lucic is worse than Alzner, makes more money and has an extra year.
Just for the sake of it, what if we had a deal with another team to take on Lucic while retaining 2mil?
It all depends where the Oilers 1st is, if its a top 3 pick it could be interesting. If not i would ask for Dmitri Samolukov and the Islanders 3rd next year.

Edmonton 1st-3rd overall
Lucic at 4mil(2mil retained) traded.

Edmonton 1st-8th or 9th overall
Dmitri Samolukov
Islanders 3rd in 2019
Lucic at 4mil(2mil retained) traded.

We would retained on Pacioretty at 50% unless he has a deal in place with the Oilers to resign him.

What's your thoughts?
 

Mangosteen

Ground hog day no more
Apr 9, 2018
1,323
943
Here is an offer that could be a win win. What about Brendan Gallagher for Max Domi. Gallagher 54 points -13, Max Domi is 3 years younger and 45 points -7 on an awful year (well first half). Would you make the trade?
 

SakuKoivu11

Registered User
Jun 29, 2017
2,595
1,787
3 things that might change the makeup of this team.

Win lottery draft Rasmus Dahlin.
Sign John Tavares.
Trade Alex Galchenyuk for Ryan Oreilly.

Pacioretty Tavares Gallagher
Drouin Oreilly Lehkonen
Byron Danault Shaw
Deslauries DLR Shaw
Scherbak

Dahlin Weber
Mete Petry
Reilly Juulsen
Schlemko

Price
Lindgren
 
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