HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Miller Time]

Nope - no top end end player leaves Million$ on the table, the ones that did were banking on making more & majority miscalculated & blew their opportunity.

Brady, Tom



Not to mention several from the article... Perhaps you didn't actually read it?

Aemechi, John

Garciapara Nomar

Wade, Dwayne

Talking generational wealth here - and with each passing year the $ figures for top end players grows exponentially and they’ve become even more sensitive to hoarding as much as they can given the short lifespan of their careers which can end at any moment for no fault of their own.

Factually incorrect and easily disproved.

As a former boss once advised me “I want to make so much money, not because I want or need it but so that my grandchildren’s grandchildren never have to worry about security one day of their life”.

Your boss was a professional athlete?

You seem to think that your narrow experience can be generalized across entire populations.

A finance executive generally enters the profession to exit as quickly as possible with as much wealth accumulation as possible. Same with many professions. That predatory approach to a career isn't applicable to all pursuits.

Plekanec is a close to home example of an athlete who left literally millions on the table, while still pursuing his profession, because variables other than further wealth accumulation was his priority.

Tom Brady chose to keep playing despite having greater earning potential (not to mention the marital impact) has he left and taken any number of lucrative alternative options that he did pursue once finally retiring (& may yet still return)... This despite the significant material risk to his health by continuing to play.


Money, be it immediate or generational, is certainly a major driving force for decision making, especially in our current society... but it is clearly not the absolute you make it out to be, even if it is for your life decisions.

Not everyone thinks like you, and, your life choices can't be rationalized by claiming them to be the only way to approach values.

Sorry to burst you bubble.

 

[Benstheman]

What kind of mid 1st pick can we get with Winnipeg's 1st and Mesar?

 

[waitin425]

What kind of mid 1st pick can we get with Winnipeg's 1st and Mesar?

We could move 3-5 spots maybe. Mesar's value is not as high as it was draft day.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Not everyone thinks like you, and, your life choices can't be rationalized by claiming them to be the only way to approach values.

Sorry to burst you bubble.

I love it when this board's self-styled "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" guru gets taken down a peg. Bravo

 

[Habs Halifax]

Don’t fall in love with vets. Big mistake.

It's not falling in love. It's a strategy in terms of mentoring young players and when to let them go in a trade.

Keep Savard. Consider moving him at the next TDL.

With Matheson, I think 50% or more of our fan base will flip out if Hughes extends him past the next two years. However, we got 2 seasons to monitor Hutson and Mailloux's ability to be our PP QB's. Personally, I have no issues with Matheson if we sign him till age 35 max.... if others we are trying to replace him with disappoint.

If some team comes along and offers something we can't refuse, you do it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We could move 3-5 spots maybe. Mesar's value is not as high as it was draft day.

I think Mesar's value is stable. That's the norm for a late 1st rounder. A decent shot at a NHL'er. Plus he is more NHL ready than the pick in this draft. It really comes down to what team and what are their needs. Help now or help later. F or D.

I would say Jets 1st and Mesar are very close to the same value. It's very subjective on who you ask but the value gap is not worth a massive argument. We also like to treat Barron as meh but he still has top 4RD potential with his skating/size/shot power. He falls in the category of a late bloomer with me and probably has a very good 5 year span from age 25-30.

Habs fans are more reasonable than before due to our draft power. If our pool was shallow, we would be pumping up Mesar more than we are today.

Yes, you can hit with a late first (Pasta for example) but they are few and far inbetween. You can also draft a bust too. Mesar is certainly not tracking bust. He's got middle 6F track IMO.

Depends on the vet. Mine works long hours and comes home smelling like shit more often than not, but I wouldn’t trade her for the world.

Too late to trade for any value eh? haha. (joking).

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Talking generational wealth here [...].

As a former boss once advised me “I want to make so much money, not because I want or need it but so that my grandchildren’s grandchildren never have to worry about security one day of their life”.

Man, we need a better death tax. What happened to the idea of earning your money? There's something very wrong about sitting on a Scrooge McDuck pile of money a distant ancestor earned, while everyone else is out there busting their ass to make ends meet.

Just spitballing ideas here -- if you never met them while they were living, you can't touch the money.

 

[Sterling Archer]

32 thoughts- Kaliyev is getting dealt.


I wish they wouldn't eat when they record, or Elliotte is just super annoying with the amount of noise he makes with his mouth.

Harris for Kaliyev?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Harris for Kaliyev?

Tricky part is the waivers exempt factor. We are likely carrying 8 D (2 extra) and 13F (1 extra) so it's possible Kaliyev will be put on waivers. Doubt any one of Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia are on waivers this time around. Armia got his message to start the year last season. Also possible both Dvorak and Armia are traded. We will see.

It might have to be something boring if we want to find a new home for Harris. 3rd rounder return.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Tricky part is the waivers exempt factor. We are likely carrying 8 D (2 extra) and 13F (1 extra) so it's possible Kaliyev will be put on waivers. Doubt any one of Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia are on waivers this time around. Armia got his message to start the year last season. Also possible both Dvorak and Armia are traded. We will see.

It might have to be something boring if we want to find a new home for Harris. 3rd rounder return.

I just hope Habs start to jettison some of the dead weight on the bottom 6 lines and make openings for their prospects ie Heinemann, Roy, etc. and a potential reclamation project like a Kakko, Kalieyev type player as well as adding a top tier player for the top 6.

Plenty of payers they can try to get rid of like Dvo, Ylonen, RHP, etc.

Slaf Suzuki Roy
XXX Dach Cole
Armia Newhook Kaliyev
Heinemann Evans Gally
Pezzetta

I'm not saying Kaliyev is the answer but he's an upgrade on many of the bottom 6 we currently have. Hopeful they can find even better bottom 6ers. As you see, it's depth that wins in the playoffs.

 

[26Mats]

Harris for Kaliyev?

Or Barron for Kaliyev is more comensurate with their draft pedigrees, and pedigrees coming into the league.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Any interest for Alex Turcotte? His value must be cheap right now.

If we pick Lindstrom we could speard the smurfs one of each line and a giant on each line.

 

[DAChampion]

Man, we need a better death tax. What happened to the idea of earning your money? There's something very wrong about sitting on a Scrooge McDuck pile of money a distant ancestor earned, while everyone else is out there busting their ass to make ends meet.

Just spitballing ideas here -- if you never met them while they were living, you can't touch the money.

You're right. I suspect that the amount of grandchildren of grandchildren living the high life without working is what's undermining the western economy.

 

[Habitant#1]

Why is every obsessed with targeting these middling players?
Newhook, Kaliyev, Turcotte, Holtz? None of these players will meaningfully move the needle for the Habs.
I'd rather keep my laste 1st and take swings. You can't land a Wyatt Johnston if you don't have the picks!

(Or a Pastarnak for that matter)

The Habs' tank years are likely over and we've failed to land an elite talent. We have no choice but to take big swings now or this rebuild is DOA.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Why is every obsessed with targeting these middling players?
Newhook, Kaliyev, Turcotte, Holtz? None of these players will meaningfully move the needle for the Habs.
I'd rather keep my laste 1st and take swings. You can't land a Wyatt Johnston if you don't have the picks!

(Or a Pastarnak for that matter)

The Habs' tank years are likely over and we've failed to land an elite talent. We have no choice but to take big swings now or this rebuild is DOA.

Doubt Turcotte would cost a late first.

The interest is to buy low on a young player drafted high who had a skill set that made him drafted high. And projecting an increase of production with a change of scenary and a new development coach.

That would greatly speed up the rebuild vs waiting and hoping a late first or early second comes and makes a difference.

I wasn't a fan of the formula at first but like what I saw from Dach and Newhook. Building the core with high picks and the depth with those kind of project player seems like a viable way to successfully build a talented team.

And why would the tank year be over? Do we project to vastly improve next season?

 

[Tyson]

Any interest for Alex Turcotte? His value must be cheap right now.

If we pick Lindstrom we could speard the smurfs one of each line and a giant on each line.

5 years after being drafted I am now convinced that Alex Turcotte has missed his window and is considered a bust. Picked 10 spots before Caufield. His biggest mistake was leaving college too early.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I just hope Habs start to jettison some of the dead weight on the bottom 6 lines and make openings for their prospects ie Heinemann, Roy, etc. and a potential reclamation project like a Kakko, Kalieyev type player as well as adding a top tier player for the top 6.

Plenty of payers they can try to get rid of like Dvo, Ylonen, RHP, etc.

Slaf Suzuki Roy
XXX Dach Cole
Armia Newhook Kaliyev
Heinemann Evans Gally
Pezzetta

I'm not saying Kaliyev is the answer but he's an upgrade on many of the bottom 6 we currently have. Hopeful they can find even better bottom 6ers. As you see, it's depth that wins in the playoffs.

I can see Dvorak and Armia being offloaded but not sure. Anderson had a horrible season so that's not easy to move. Best to have him rebound and I think he comes ready next year. Gallagher.. enough said. He's staying until it runs out.

Newhook to me is a puck possession winger that can play center. I rather have him on wing and available at center in case of injuries. So not so sure I am ready to trade Dvorak. Especially if the plan is to move up closer to the playoffs.

I would not consider Kaliyev a 3rd liner. Rather give the chance to Heineman or Ylonen. If I'm moving Harris 1/1 in a trade. I target a future 2nd or 3rd in the 25 or 26 drafts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

5 years after being drafted I am now convinced that Alex Turcotte has missed his window and is considered a bust. Picked 10 spots before Caufield. His biggest mistake was leaving college too early.

He's just not that good. Padded stats at a time when the US system was loaded with talent. This is an exact example of someone who looks good with stats but played with lots of talent. Look at Parekh in this next draft. The Spirit were loaded with 8 NHL drafted guys but he had the most points from them all. He's an interesting one to try to evaluate.

York and Turcotte were the 5th and 6th wheel to Hughes, Caufield, Zegras, Boldy.

 

[BaseballCoach]

• Why is every obsessed with targeting these middling players?

Newhook, Kaliyev, Turcotte, Holtz? None of these players will meaningfully move the needle for the Habs.

Newhook is around 10th in a re-draft of 2019 - better than middling. But I agree the others should rank below Newhook, and thus 'middling'.

I'd rather keep my laste 1st and take swings. You can't land a Wyatt Johnston if you don't have the picks!

(Or a Pastarnak for that matter)

The Habs' tank years are likely over and we've failed to land an elite talent.

Slafkovski, if he just maintains his point pace for the second half of this past season (0.88 ppg), will have the fourth highest career average of points per game in the past 30 years of Habdom, ahead of Kovalev and Koivu. Furthermore, he could easily improve to 1.0 ppg. He's very likely elite.

We have no choice but to take big swings now or this rebuild is DOA.

So I'm guessing you would not support trading the Winnipeg pick (currently 26th) for a guy like Cole Sillinger.

Here is our 24 year history since 2000 with picks 24-32:

• 2001 - Alexander Perezhogin
• 2013 - Michael McCarron
• 2014 - Nikita Scherbak
• 2015 - Noah Juulsen
• 2017 - Ryan Poehling
• 2021 - Logan Mailloux

 

[Habs Halifax]

Doubt Turcotte would cost a late first.

The interest is to buy low on a young player drafted high who had a skill set that made him drafted high. And projecting an increase of production with a change of scenary and a new development coach.

That would greatly speed up the rebuild vs waiting and hoping a late first or early second comes and makes a difference.

I wasn't a fan of the formula at first but like what I saw from Dach and Newhook. Building the core with high picks and the depth with those kind of project player seems like a viable way to successfully build a talented team.

And why would the tank year be over? Do we project to vastly improve next season?

No different than L Anderson we picked up for free last year. Turcotte is toast. Ylonen is ahead of him now. I can absolutely say Turcotte is not worth a late 1st (age 23 today). He's not even worth a 2nd rounder.

* 0.67 pts/game in the AHL (126 games)
* 0.13 pts/game in the NHL (32 games)

If you pick him up, it's for AHL depth (like L Anderson last year).

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

You're right. I suspect that the amount of grandchildren of grandchildren living the high life without working is what's undermining the western economy.

i think there's lots of forces at play, but that's certainly not helping.

also i don't think this is limited to western economies, rich folks worldwide stash away their "generational wealth" in this manner. in fact you could probably argue it's hurting developing countries even more.

 

[Canadienna]

If we want to swap picks with CHI, we are going to need to do it without knowing if Lindstrom will be available at 5. Would you guys go for it?

Something like MTL 1st, WPG 1st, Harris for CHI 1st?

 

[Laurentide]

I don't see the point in trying to trade up from the 5 hole unless we're talking about Celebrini. But since he's not going to be an option I'm fine with staying at 5. I don't see any player that we absolutely must have before 5th. I would be open to packaging the Winnipeg pick in an effort to move into somewhere between 6th and 15th.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If we want to swap picks with CHI, we are going to need to do it without knowing if Lindstrom will be available at 5. Would you guys go for it?

Something like MTL 1st, WPG 1st, Harris for CHI 1st?

The question I would have is how much knowledge do we have with Demidov? Everything you hear is good stuff but exposure is limited. 168 lbs and 5'-11"? If you make this move, you better hope he is the next P Kane. When I look at the all time Russian points list, I see a lot of guys with size/weight.

IMO, the KHL/MHL is not that much of a gritty type league. Of course there is physicality but not as much as other leagues. There is lots of skill open ice display. I know some will call me crazy for trying to dig into any pessimistic context around Demidov but it's something we should consider. A little talk doesn't hurt in terms of can he disappoint? It's something we all should do on any guy you might want to take.

Kucherov and Datsyuk are the two that are on the light side in weight. Then you got Ovi, Malkin, Fedorov, Mogilny, Kovalev, Kovalchuk, etc. How much time does it take Demidov to reach 185+ lbs? Has he been tested physically yet? Does he shy away from contact?

 

[GrandmaCookie]

The question I would have is how much knowledge do we have with Demidov? Everything you hear is good stuff but exposure is limited. 168 lbs and 5'-11"? If you make this move, you better hope he is the next P Kane. When I look at the all time Russian points list, I see a lot of guys with size/weight.

IMO, the KHL/MHL is not that much of a gritty type league. Of course there is physicality but not as much as other leagues. There is lots of skill open ice display. I know some will call me crazy for trying to dig into any pessimistic context around Demidov but it's something we should consider. A little talk doesn't hurt in terms of can he disappoint? It's something we all should do on any guy you might want to take.

Kucherov and Datsyuk are the two that are on the light side in weight. Then you got Ovi, Malkin, Fedorov, Mogilny, Kovalev, Kovalchuk, etc. How much time does it take Demidov to reach 185+ lbs? Has he been tested physically yet? Does he shy away from contact?

Panarin seems to be doing just fine at 175. As far as small winger, see Kaprizov.