Proposal: Trade idea CBJS and the Oilers

[KlefDown]

Laine's qualifying offer is 7.5m and has way more risk attached to him right now.
we can get Nuge signed for way less than that and way less risk

 

[Seachd]

I think CBJ would want to see what Laine does under a different coach before closing that chapter, just IMO

I'd say this is the most likely scenario, and the best for everyone involved.

Except Tortorella.

 

[McSuper]

I think at minimum CBJ ask for Holloway and a 1st . Break down would be

Laine for RNH re-signed , Holloway and a 1st . As an Oiler fan I would not pay that as I have high hope for Holloway. Again the OP is a bad insulting offer .

 

[DingDongCharlie]

How many Laine to Edmonton or RNH to Columbus threads do we need? Seriously this was debated in another thread this very week.

 

[TFHockey]

RNH isn't enough because we don't need another 2C when we have Roslo, Domi, Jenner, Texier, Foudy. Plus he aint good enough to be a #1C and is a UFA. Want to talk about Negative value...I'll take RNH if you throw in a 2nd. And yes, thats without giving up Laine.

IDK how many times (threads) we have to explain this to you guys.

It's dumb posts like this that makes this site a joke. What a f**king dolt.

 

[Dumais]

It's dumb posts like this that makes this site a joke. What a f**king dolt.

Glad this thread cuts both ways.
Got ton more likem.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I think at minimum CBJ ask for Holloway and a 1st . Break down would be

Laine for RNH re-signed , Holloway and a 1st . As an Oiler fan I would not pay that as I have high hope for Holloway. Again the OP is a bad insulting offer .

I'm not an RNH fan, but this is ludicrous even if you take him out and qualify it with "as an Oiler fan I would not pay that."

 

[Fro]

It's dumb posts like this that makes this site a joke. What a f**king dolt.

His 5v5 play is very scary to trade for...is it negative value? Obviously not...but it is a UFA for RFA, so based on control, an add is needed

 

[zar]

His 5v5 play is very scary to trade for...is it negative value? Obviously not...but it is a UFA for RFA, so based on control, an add is needed

Wait... in an RNH for Laine trade discussion thread you are claiming RNH’s 5 on 5 play is scary.

I would agree that UFA RNH for RFA Laine is not something the CBJs should entertain but RNH is significantly better 200 ft and 5-on-5 player than Laine is today.

 

[McVespa99]

No, we have enough of those players already. If CBJ wants him, Jarmo will pick him up in couple months and keep Laine. And quit trying to poach a 50g sniper with a UFA and 2nd. Go ahead and pay him 7m and call him a core piece and be happy.

At least wait till tomorrow before creating another "Oil fans talk crap about Laine" thread.

Laine is not a 50 goal sniper. The deal was based on Rnh agreeing to an extension therefore he would not be a ufa. Wake up and read....

 

[McVespa99]

Rental for a 2nd OA RFA with 100+g and 22.

Sorry, I'm still waiting on any value...

Again it was clearly stated that RNH had agreed to an extension so he would not be a rental....

 

[Viqsi]

Wait... in an RNH for Laine trade discussion thread you are claiming RNH’s 5 on 5 play is scary.

I would agree that UFA RNH for RFA Laine is not something the CBJs should entertain but RNH is significantly better 200 ft and 5-on-5 player than Laine is today.

It's less about the direct comparison between the two and more that we have to get a decent top-6 C back in a Laine trade, and RNH has some question marks in that regard stemming from his 5-on-5 production.

 

[zar]

It's less about the direct comparison between the two and more that we have to get a decent top-6 C back in a Laine trade, and RNH has some question marks in that regard stemming from his 5-on-5 production.

I’ll finish that statement for you


“... this year”

This is the first year in his career you can claim he has struggled with even strength production.

 

[Viqsi]

I’ll finish that statement for you


“... this year”

This is the first year in his career you can claim he has struggled with even strength production.

RNH this year is at 1.18 points/60 5 on 5. That's good for the #148 position among centers (minimum 200 minutes played) per Natural Stat Trick. That's a bit more than mere "struggling" - that puts him below literally every single current CBJ center on the roster ("current", because Riley Nash was just traded and Foudy is in Cleveland). Boone Jenner has been a better 5on5 scorer. Kevin Stenlund has been a better 5on5 scorer. Mikhail Grigorenko has been a better 5on5 scorer. Mikko Kokiu was doing better than that before he decided he wasn't good enough and retired.

For 2019-2020, he did admittedly do much better, with 2.23 p/60 (link). If we could be assured we were getting that RNH, that would be nice. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule - for 2018-2019, he's back down to 1.75 p/60 5on5, good for #86 (link), and stays pretty consistently below 2.0 p/60 5on5 the rest of the way back. 2.0 p/60, incidentally, is the usual threshold for top-6 center scoring, although this year has been a bit low in that regard.

Basically, with the exception of last year, RNH has been below average as a #2C in points production 5-on-5 throughout his career. And he just had a peak year at the age many forwards tend to peak, and is suddenly doing much worse. I mean, it's probable that this year is an outlier, but between that and his looking for his next big contract... there's legit concerns.

 

[zar]

RNH this year is at 1.18 points/60 5 on 5. That's good for the #148 position among centers (minimum 200 minutes played) per Natural Stat Trick. That's a bit more than mere "struggling" - that puts him below literally every single current CBJ center on the roster ("current", because Riley Nash was just traded and Foudy is in Cleveland). Boone Jenner has been a better 5on5 scorer. Kevin Stenlund has been a better 5on5 scorer. Mikhail Grigorenko has been a better 5on5 scorer. Mikko Kokiu was doing better than that before he decided he wasn't good enough and retired.

For 2019-2020, he did admittedly do much better, with 2.23 p/60 (link). If we could be assured we were getting that RNH, that would be nice. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule - for 2018-2019, he's back down to 1.75 p/60 5on5, good for #86 (link), and stays pretty consistently below 2.0 p/60 5on5 the rest of the way back. 2.0 p/60, incidentally, is the usual threshold for top-6 center scoring, although this year has been a bit low in that regard.

Basically, with the exception of last year, RNH has been below average as a #2C in points production 5-on-5 throughout his career. And he just had a peak year at the age many forwards tend to peak, and is suddenly doing much worse. I mean, it's probable that this year is an outlier, but between that and his looking for his next big contract... there's legit concerns.

Now go take a look at who his most common line mates were 5 on 5 in 2018/19 and 2017/18... I guarantee you they in no way resemble 2nd line wingers.

 

[thadd]

Want no piece of Liane. Too 1 dimensional. I'd rather let RNH walk off to free agency than make this trade.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

laine doesn't literally have negative trade value but he might as well be at this point, his stock has never been lower and nobody is giving up anything close to fair value for him right not given his play, his upcoming QO, and the flat cap

it's not worth it for columbus to move him right now unless he is purely toxic in the locker room which doesn't seem to be the case

 

[Revelation]

This reminds me of that Dany Heatley for Marian Gaborik's UFA rights proposal NHL talking heads kept throwing around of some dumb reason

 

[Viqsi]

Now go take a look at who his most common line mates were 5 on 5 in 2018/19 and 2017/18... I guarantee you they in no way resemble 2nd line wingers.

For 2018-2019, that's technically true only in the sense that nobody would dare refer to Connor McDavid as a second-line winger. (After him comes Chaisson, and then Puljujarvi. Link here.)

For 2017-2018, McDavid is still present, but this time he's the #3 forward in TOI with, with Milan Lucic and Pat Maroon ahead of him. (Link.) Maroon was scoring at a decent clip that year, though, with 1.76 p/60 5on5 and just over half a point per game. (Lucic... not so much.)

So I'm not sure if I buy the "linemates bad" argument either.

 

[Viqsi]

laine doesn't literally have negative trade value but he might as well be at this point, his stock has never been lower and nobody is giving up anything close to fair value for him right not given his play, his upcoming QO, and the flat cap

it's not worth it for columbus to move him right now unless he is purely toxic in the locker room which doesn't seem to be the case

Frankly, the only reason there's any talks about doing so now is out of the hope that some people will ignore how he's done here in favor of "whatever, it's Tortorella" or some similar offhand excuse and give us what we need regardless. It's a long shot in the extreme, but it's not impossible.

But the most likely outcome is that we keep him and try again, yeah.

 

[TFHockey]

RNH this year is at 1.18 points/60 5 on 5. That's good for the #148 position among centers (minimum 200 minutes played) per Natural Stat Trick. That's a bit more than mere "struggling" - that puts him below literally every single current CBJ center on the roster ("current", because Riley Nash was just traded and Foudy is in Cleveland). Boone Jenner has been a better 5on5 scorer. Kevin Stenlund has been a better 5on5 scorer. Mikhail Grigorenko has been a better 5on5 scorer. Mikko Kokiu was doing better than that before he decided he wasn't good enough and retired.

For 2019-2020, he did admittedly do much better, with 2.23 p/60 (link). If we could be assured we were getting that RNH, that would be nice. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule - for 2018-2019, he's back down to 1.75 p/60 5on5, good for #86 (link), and stays pretty consistently below 2.0 p/60 5on5 the rest of the way back. 2.0 p/60, incidentally, is the usual threshold for top-6 center scoring, although this year has been a bit low in that regard.

Basically, with the exception of last year, RNH has been below average as a #2C in points production 5-on-5 throughout his career. And he just had a peak year at the age many forwards tend to peak, and is suddenly doing much worse. I mean, it's probable that this year is an outlier, but between that and his looking for his next big contract... there's legit concerns.

This was an interesting post. That is some food for thought. Although fancy stats don't tell the whole story they are a tool in the toolbox for evaluating players and can't be dismissed outright when discussing a player. RNH is no exception.

Shall we compare RNH to Laine using the same metrics? Seems fair.

Laine is at 0.90 points 60 5v5. That is significantly lower than RNH (1.18, your numbers) who still plays center when Draisaitl is elevated to the top line.

How about last year on the Jets? Laine was a much better 2.03 points /60 5v5. That is still lower than RNH who by your own admission was higher at 2.23 points/60 5v5.

I'd have to point out that RNH when he isn't scoring is still helping his team. He can take face offs. He can kill penalties. If Laine isn't scoring what else is he adding?

 

[Viqsi]

This was an interesting post. That is some food for thought. Although fancy stats don't tell the whole story they are a tool in the toolbox for evaluating players and can't be dismissed outright when discussing a player. RNH is no exception.

Shall we compare RNH to Laine using the same metrics? Seems fair.

Laine is at 0.90 points 60 5v5. That is significantly lower than RNH (1.18, your numbers) who still plays center when Draisaitl is elevated to the top line.

How about last year on the Jets? Laine was a much better 2.03 points /60 5v5. That is still lower than RNH who by your own admission was higher at 2.23 points/60 5v5.

I'd have to point out that RNH when he isn't scoring is still helping his team. He can take face offs. He can kill penalties. If Laine isn't scoring what else is he adding?

I reiterate - the direct comparison doesn't matter as much to us. We have to get a top-6 C of some kind back in a Laine trade. It'd just be a question of whether or not RNH fits that bill from our side. That doesn't say a thing about how it works or doesn't work for the Oilers; it could be that this makes no sense whatsoever for Edmonton. I'm not aware enough of that team's situation to say; I've not been keeping up on anything up there other than "how the centers are doing".

I wasn't intending to try trade negging with RNH; if it came across that way, my apologies.

 

[TFHockey]

I reiterate - the direct comparison doesn't matter as much to us. We have to get a top-6 C of some kind back in a Laine trade. It'd just be a question of whether or not RNH fits that bill from our side. That doesn't say a thing about how it works or doesn't work for the Oilers; it could be that this makes no sense whatsoever for Edmonton. I'm not aware enough of that team's situation to say; I've not been keeping up on anything up there other than "how the centers are doing".

I wasn't intending to try trade negging with RNH; if it came across that way, my apologies.

Sure, fair enough.

I will say two things about RNH after watching him for years and years here in Edmonton. He is a good 2C who is responsible at both ends of the ice. He is a good team guy. Players like him. He is a smart player. High hockey IQ. However if RNH is acting as your 1C for any length of time you are in big trouble. He isn't good enough to be a legit 1C. We thought he could develop into one but he can't control a game like a real 1C should.

He is way too good to be a 3c. The Oilers know that and convert him to a winger when Draisaitl centers his own line. That might not be what Columbus is looking for. That's cool.

I just don't see making a huge play for Laine when he isn't delivering the offense RNH is and can't add anything else to the Oilers. Stick with the devil you know is my motto.

 

[DFF]

Pretend your guy is not a UFA
Trash the other guy
Assuming the other GM is an idiot
Steal

 

[DFF]

There is no 50G sniper in this proposal.

No but he is 22

the other guy is 28 looking for a big pay day and never met expectations