Trade and FA Rumours 2022/23 Part 2

[Flair Hay]

Im hoping option 2, this core isn’t winning anything they’ve proven that year after year. I’m ready to move on myself from this core and start over. Much more fun watching a young hard working team developing, then an overpaid roster of aging players who can’t win year after year.

Posters talked about Helle signing a 8 year deal at 10 million…….Helle at that deal will be crap for over half that deal likely so no point doing it. The guy is about to turn 30 years old shortly, people want to sign him for 8 more years at 10 million? All I can say is wow…….boat anchor deal waiting.

I would sooner option 3, then option 1, if that means 8 year deals for both Helle and Mark at 10 million and I assume Mark similar.

Now tell me what you expect the Jets will do

The final stage of grief is acceptance

 

[gojetsgo]

That’s true with all caps hits from players, but you can’t nearly double the 6th highest paid goalie and think that’s a good idea IMO. The cap isn’t nearly doubling, not even close. Habs made a huge mistake with Price, no interest in that from me with Helle

what? double would be 12.2 million a year which is actually closer to the % of the cap price took up with the habs. price took up 14% of the cap space and paying helle 10 million could be close to that for 1 season but after 25-26 the number will be closer to 10% and will go even lower if the cap keeps rising which it should, the deference between paying helle 10 million now vs the habs giving price 10 million is we could add a good middle six forward as well for the same cap% as price

 

[Hunter368]

Now tell me what you expect the Jets will do

The final stage of grief is acceptance

Impossible to tell, bc it’s not in their control, it’s in the hands of Mark & Helle……I kind of hope they refuse to resign forcing a rebuild.

 

[LowLefty]

Now tell me what you expect the Jets will do

The final stage of grief is acceptance

IMO, they won't get these guys at fair market (as you stated), so I'd think #2 is where they will end up.
I don't expect them to over pay - nor would I want them to.
What's even more interesting is, what do these guys think they are worth and will they want to test the market to prove themselves right

 

[Hunter368]

what? double would be 12.2 million a year which is actually closer to the % of the cap price took up with the habs. price took up 14% of the cap space and paying helle 10 million could be close to that for 1 season but after 25-26 the number will be closer to 10% and will go even lower if the cap keeps rising which it should, the deference between paying helle 10 million now vs the habs giving price 10 million is we could add a good middle six forward as well for the same cap% as price

As I stated before, show me any goalie who has earned a 10 million cap hit. None have, goalies aren’t worth that. I listed the top three goalies paid now, they are all bad deals. Price is the worst deal of them all, we should do the same now and assume it will be a good outcome? No thx from this guy……..if Helle demanded 10x8 or he won’t sign I would tell him to GTFO.

 

[gojetsgo]

As I stated before, show me any goalie who has earned a 10 million cap hit. None have, goalies aren’t worth that. I listed the top three goalies paid now, they are all bad deals. Price is the worst deal of them all, we should do the same now and assume it will be a good outcome? No thx from this guy……..if Helle demanded 10x8 or he won’t sign I would tell him to GTFO.

you realize with the cap going up that salaries are going to get higher right? that's why I've been posing the % of the cap hit which matters far more then the actual salary... I guess we really shouldn't continue this conversation if you are just going to look at the aav and not what really matters... the % of the cap space it takes up...


paying a goalie 10 million on a 92+ million dollar cap is better then paying a goalie 10.5 million on a 79 million dollar cap

 

[Hunter368]

you realize with the cap going up that salaries are going to get higher right? that's why I've been posing the % of the cap hit which matters far more then the actual salary... I guess we really shouldn't continue this conversation if you are just going to look at the aav and not what really matters... the % of the cap space it takes up...

Im fully aware of what your saying, ive answered your point already you just don’t like my answer.

 

[Buffdog]

My position is you can’t not keep a top of the league goalie at the top of his game if you can why even pretend to try? We may never have a goalie like this again. So yes he is worth what it takes. Do people not remember what it was like to have Pavs level goaltending?

I understand the conundrum. That said, there are plenty of regrettable 30+ goalie contracts like Pricen and Quick that hurt more than they help

 

[not quite yoda]

Is Dubois (extended) for Slafkovsky realistic for WPG?

 

[voyageur]

Is Dubois (extended) for Slafkovsky realistic for WPG?

No. I don't think the Jets are looking for a prospective winger to replace a top 6 centre. Fla's 1st has to be in play. That's at least an asset that can be flipped, or allow the Jets to flip their other 1st for a potential centre. Kirby Dach straight up maybe.

Right now we have one less point from Namestnikov in 5 games than we do from Dubois in 17, so hard to say what his offseason value would be at this point.

 

[ps241]

Is Dubois (extended) for Slafkovsky realistic for WPG?

If you can let me know if there is another bidder that would help.

Values are pretty much impossible to gauge with the limited knowledge we have as fans. So many factors involved really.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Is Dubois (extended) for Slafkovsky realistic for WPG?

As has been mentioned, we'd probably prefer a C back for PLD instead of a winger.

Now, depending on where FLA's 1st winds up, a deal around Dach + FLA 1st for PLD + WPG 1st maybe?

Otherwise, I think the deal would need to be based around PLD for FLA 1st, adding as needed.

Of course, the caveat in this is what values do the GMs place on these assets? We as fans always tend to overvalue our own assets so who knows?

 

[Thechozen1]

I am more curious to see what they value on the prospect/pick sides of things. I really have no idea if the Jets would want Anderson or not. It does make sense that they would want a player with term and Anderson is no slouch the guy can and will score 20 goals but I also don't think he carries a tremendous amount of real value. If I could get a 1st and what I consider a top prospect out of them plus some add ons and take a player like Anderson on a hockey board then why not.

I don’t mind Anderson, but his contract isn’t great. That said if the prospect coming back is Beck or Roy along with that Florida 1st, then I could live with that.

 

[Jet]

How many teams with 10 million dollar goalies have been contenders.......in NHL history?? How many NHL goalies have ever earned 10 million per year?

Price contract held thee Habs back for years (he was untradeable & sucked) and never lived up to that deal. After he signed that deal he was average goalie and in some years he was just plain bad.

Sergei B in Florida has been meh to bad for years, not a PMO effect.

Andrei V for the Bolts has been average (maybe slightly better then average) goalie since signing his deal. Last two years he's a average goalie and certainly not earning his huge deal.

I would have a hard time giving any goalie 10 million, mostly bc I've never seen a goalie earn 10 million. Goalies are too hit or miss year to year and overall. I find goalies tend to be good for a shorter period of time in their career then D or forwards, signing Helle to a long term deal at 10 million could be the Price/Habs death sentence for years & years. I could see Helle getting 8 million from me, but not 10 million long term from me.

Funny thing is Price almost won them the cup two years ago, which just goes to show just how important goaltending is.

The difference between Price and Helle is I think Connor is a better athlete and has been much healthier in his career. Had price stayed healthy I don't think that contract would look bad at all

 

[tbcwpg]

You don’t need a 10 million dollar goalie to win, nobody needs that to win.

No you don't. I think this team as constructed does.

 

[Hunter368]

Funny thing is Price almost won them the cup two years ago, which just goes to show just how important goaltending is.

The difference between Price and Helle is I think Connor is a better athlete and has been much healthier in his career. Had price stayed healthy I don't think that contract would look bad at all

Did he? He dragged a playoff bubble team to the finals through the Canadian Div.......not sure I would agree that he almost won them the cup. They got smoked in the finals and never should of been there in a normal year.

You want to pay Helle 10 million until he's 37 years old roughly? How many years is that contract going to be bad? 4-5 years?

 

[Hunter368]

No you don't. I think this team as constructed does.

Partly my point, rebuild the team instead of gambling the next 10 years on a long shot of a goalie being a Vezina level for all those years. 8 year deal at 10 million becomes a boat anchor after 2-3 years, if your lucky after 4 years.

 

[surixon]

Did he? He dragged a playoff bubble team to the finals through the Canadian Div.......not sure I would agree that he almost won them the cup. They got smoked in the finals and never should of been there in a normal year.

You want to pay Helle 10 million until he's 37 years old roughly? How many years is that contract going to be bad? 4-5 years?

Hard to say. It depends if he ages like Loungo or Lunquist or does he age like Price/Bobrowski.

 

[Hunter368]

Hard to say. It depends if he ages like Loungo or Lunquist or does he age like Price/Bobrowski.

Would of Loungo or Lunquist been worth 10 million today over the last 5 years of either of their careers? Not in my opinion........ok goalies at that stage but not worth 10 million.

 

[surixon]

Would of Loungo or Lunquist been worth 10 million today over the last 5 years of either of their careers? Not in my opinion........ok goalies at that stage but not worth 10 million.

Luongo definitely was. He was still posting elite numbers while playing a heavy workload until age 36. He fell off a bit and then was posting great numbers in a platoon type situation.

Luqvist was a high end starter until age 36 and then regressed to an average one for a couple.

Either way I wouldn't have an issue paying that for 5 years of elite play and a couple at an average level.

 

[Jet]

Did he? He dragged a playoff bubble team to the finals through the Canadian Div.......not sure I would agree that he almost won them the cup. They got smoked in the finals and never should of been there in a normal year.

You want to pay Helle 10 million until he's 37 years old roughly? How many years is that contract going to be bad? 4-5 years?

You kind of just proved it. Yes, he dragged a playoff bubble team to the finals, clearly underlining how a goalie impacts a teams playoff chances.

If Price was healthy like Hellebuyck, that contract would be fair value for how much a goaltender impacts the fate of a hockey team.

There are lots and lots of examples of goaltenders who continue to play very well into their late 30's. The goaltenders who are healthy, fit, and are bigger guys who rely on sound positioning are the ones who can extend their longevity. I believe Hellebuyck is exactly above.

Not to mention the fact that this is the reality of the NHL. If you want to keep your key players who are approaching their thirties, you have to pay them in some years where you are not sure how much ROI they will provide.

IF the Jets had any goalies in the pipeline that looked like the next one, you could get them as a backup next year and see what they can do, but all we have is Arvid Holm who while has some promise, isn't exactly looking like the next Helle.

I'd be looking to resign Hellebuyck unless we could find a guy who is looking like a real replacement for him. Problem is, goalies are voodoo and you do not know which one will be great and which one won't

 

[Hunter368]

You kind of just proved it. Yes, he dragged a playoff bubble team to the finals, clearly underlining how a goalie impacts a teams playoff chances.

If Price was healthy like Hellebuyck, that contract would be fair value for how much a goaltender impacts the fate of a hockey team.

There are lots and lots of examples of goaltenders who continue to play very well into their late 30's. The goaltenders who are healthy, fit, and are bigger guys who rely on sound positioning are the ones who can extend their longevity. I believe Hellebuyck is exactly above.

Not to mention the fact that this is the reality of the NHL. If you want to keep your key players who are approaching their thirties, you have to pay them in some years where you are not sure how much ROI they will provide.

IF the Jets had any goalies in the pipeline that looked like the next one, you could get them as a backup next year and see what they can do, but all we have is Arvid Holm who while has some promise, isn't exactly looking like the next Helle.

I'd be looking to resign Hellebuyck unless we could find a guy who is looking like a real replacement for him. Problem is, goalies are voodoo and you do not know which one will be great and which one won't

Goalies are voodoo, so Helle could fall off any day is my point, IMO the difference between a .915 vs a .92 goalie isn't worth an extra 4 million in cap (diff between average goalie and elite goalie sv%).

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Tbay fans not happy with their 9.5 million dollar man. Panther fans(I am sure they exist) not happy with their 10 million dollar man.

Life with out Helly scares the bejeesus out of me but having him signed to a sweet heart deal and just phoning it in scares me too

 

[KingBogo]

Tbay fans not happy with their 9.5 million dollar man. Panther fans(I am sure they exist) not happy with their 10 million dollar man.

Life with out Helly scares the bejeesus out of me but having him signed to a sweet heart deal and just phoning it in scares me too

Do you think Helly would just start phoning it in? That would seem like a real change in character for someone who comes off as extremely competitive.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Do you think Helly would just start phoning it in? That would seem like a real change in character for someone who comes off as extremely competitive.

I don't think so but I think at some point age starts to catch up with people and you can't do the things you used to be able too.

If Helly was younger you probably sign him to a deal similar to Vasilevesky without thinking about it. But his age does matter. At the end of it it will be a boat anchor