Speculation: Toughness and Brad Treliving

[horner]

You forgot the fight with Stammer and skating away from Koneckny. But hey we don't want our 13+m #1C hurt in a fight.

L

You forgot the fight with Stammer and skating away from Koneckny. But hey we don't want our 13+m #1C hurt in a fight.

Sandin got the beat up for ztanding up for weak Matthew's

 

[mydnyte]

Wow you clearly are too young to have watched these players because every one of thosr players was a dirty , nasty , sombiatch when pushed . Semenko wasn't t an Oiler because Gretzky couldn't or wouldn't fight , he was an Oiler to keep Gretzky out of the box .

I watched them all, and watched Hull's Father who was a nasty piece of work, and the entire Howe family, who were just tough and nasty. ...like i said, those are a rare breed of skill and nasty.

the problems started the day they created the instigator penalty, where a goon that could skate was no longer able to protect the 'star' player
...best combo goon/player was Secord, but, tell me, is there a Secord like player in the NHL now? what Secord had 200+ fights and scored over 50 goals; who would even be the closest to him now, maybe Perry in his prime, or ???
thge league has gotten soft by design, and created a new type of player, 'dirty' ...we have a bunch of cheap shot artists who target star players on a regular basis, which is the new version of Perry, but, he was always a dirty player, and guys like Bennett (and Bunting), most are occasional 40 point players who just take runs and cheap shots

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[horner]

wtf is going on with this weird narrative of Shanny did it, Shanny did that, it's all Shanny's fault nonsense

He is the President which makes him the General Managers boss, would he have final word, on the big things yes, would he have supported his GM's vision, yep of course he would. Dubas probably did a good job selling him on that contract, but what I don't believe is that he told Dubas to offer Matthews a 5 year deal for 11.6 with a NMC in year 5.

Lets not forget that Shanny was hoping to see home town discounts and longer terms, what he didn't want to see is another Nylander situation with the embarrassment caused by all the negative press it created. I doubt Shanahan was happy about the Matthews contract, but what was he going to do, push Dubas aside and take over negotiations? It's not how it's done, and furthermore if he had done that, it would have gotten out and Dubas would have had to resign.

As it was I think the fallout really cooled the relationship between the two of them. It also created the messy and very public Marner negotiation which was probably what led to Shanny no longer watching games from the GM's box and no automatic contract renewal going into the final year.

Dubas made a mess of things, he locked the Leafs into cap hell, he listened to the fans gripe about Kadri and moved him for magic beans that turned into weeds. He fumbled the Foligno deal and acquired a player who needed a lot of rehab not a lot of playing time. Dennis Malgin, I'll leave it at that!

If we roll it back then that is coming from Shanahan because I don't believe Treliving would walk it back with no changes to the core.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No response - disgusting and pathetic

 

[therealkoho]

No response

You've been around long enough to know that had a Leaf done that, they would have faced a 2 a 5 and likely as an extra added bonus a trip to see Parros. As far as player retaliation is concerned even if there was somebody that would do anything like that, the result would've been exactly the same, a 2 a 5 and a trip to see Parros, with the added bonus of Kadri like treatment from a certain faction of the fanbase.

 

[ShaneFalco]

You've been around long enough to know that had a Leaf done that, they would have faced a 2 a 5 and likely as an extra added bonus a trip to see Parros. As far as player retaliation is concerned even if there was somebody that would do anything like that, the result would've been exactly the same, a 2 a 5 and a trip to see Parros, with the added bonus of Kadri like treatment from a certain faction of the fanbase.

True enough
But sometimes you gotta take the penalty. Kadri went overboard with cross checking in the face

 

[notdoneyet]

Keefe doesn’t like to play that game

If we played that game parros would pay forhis salary in fines and suspensions

 

[mydnyte]

Steve Yzerman was

You wonder why we do shit in the playoffs
It's actually imbearasing to watch

you know whats ironic, for a very long time Yzerman was called many names that are currently used to on players like Nylander, Marner and Matthews, until he wasnt.
It took Yzerman 14 seasons to win his first cup at age 31, with a supporting cast of Lidstom (best defender ever?) Shanahan, Fedorov, Larionov, Kozlov, Konstantinov

I knew we lost the florida series when gudas took the cheap shot on kampf and immediately turned to
Fight whoever was coming in to help him . Sad part no one not one player on the uce did anything. On any other team he would have had to fight someone

I cant find the video if the hit so if someone can put it up i would appreciate it

a good hit, is a good hit, and nobody should ever need to fight after a good/clean hit

 

[horner]

you know whats ironic, for a very long time Yzerman was called many names that are currently used to on players like Nylander, Marner and Matthews, until he wasnt.
It took Yzerman 14 seasons to win his first cup at age 31, with a supporting cast of Lidstom (best defender ever?) Shanahan, Fedorov, Larionov, Kozlov, Konstantinov


a good hit, is a good hit, and nobody should ever need to fight after a good/clean hit

Iam not just talking about winning a cup .
With Yzerman Detroit went to the conference finals 3 times won playoff rds
What gave our core done win 1 rd.
Stop trying to make excuses for these players.

 

[mydnyte]

Iam not just talking about winning a cup .
With Yzerman Detroit went to the conference finals 3 times won playoff rds
What gave our core done win 1 rd.
Stop trying to make excuses for these players.

i really couldnt care less about winning a round ...if i dont win the cup, i'd rather miss the playoffs.
there is one winner, and different levels of losers.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Schenn was the toughest guy I've seen play for TOR in a while. I really hope they re-sign him. Him and Rielly were pretty good together.

Honorable mention to Morgan Rielly who is an emotional fighter and a fighter when there is an injustice (Maroon taking shots at TOR's stars, so Rielly punched out TBL stars).

Rielly isn't the toughest guy, but he's not afraid and a lot of TOR's players can learn from him.

 

[ToneDog]

i really couldnt care less about winning a round ...if i dont win the cup, i'd rather miss the playoffs.
there is one winner, and different levels of losers.

In theory you are right. On one hand, making the playoffs, losing and picking 25+ in the playoffs if you have not traded the pick, will eventually cause you to fall behind the pack. On the other, you gotta get to the ECF to get to the SC. What team(s) won the SC after years of not making the playoffs?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Schenn was the toughest guy I've seen play for TOR in a while. I really hope they re-sign him. Him and Rielly were pretty good together.

Honorable mention to Morgan Rielly who is an emotional fighter and a fighter when there is an injustice (Maroon taking shots at TOR's stars, so Rielly punched out TBL stars).

Rielly isn't the toughest guy, but he's not afraid and a lot of TOR's players can learn from him.

Spezza when he was here showed push-back when needed too

 

[mydnyte]

In theory you are right. On one hand, making the playoff, losing and picking 25+ in the playoffs if you have not traded the pick, will eventually cause you to fall behind the pack. On the other, you gotta get to the ECF to get to the SC. What team(s) won the SC after years of not making the playoffs?

take a look at Colorado's draft history the last 7-8 years made the playoffs, then flopped, drafted McKinnon 1st overall, got the playoffs, then flopped again, and were lucky enough to draft Makar, and Byram and won the cup 2 years after.

 

[ToneDog]

take a look at Colorado's draft history the last 7-8 years made the playoffs, then flopped, drafted McKinnon 1st overall, got the playoffs, then flopped again, and were lucky enough to draft Makar, and Byram and won the cup 2 years after.

Correct they missed to playoffs and drafted high, traded a couple of core pieces in ROR and Duchene and then drafted Byram, made the playoffs and then won. We have not missed the playoffs in 7 years and have not picked in the top 10 since we drafted Matthews. The only #1 since we drafted Matty is Lily, a far cry from Makar and Byram.

 

[cannucky]

I watched them all, and watched Hull's Father who was a nasty piece of work, and the entire Howe family, who were just tough and nasty. ...like i said, those are a rare breed of skill and nasty.

the problems started the day they created the instigator penalty, where a goon that could skate was no longer able to protect the 'star' player
...best combo goon/player was Secord, but, tell me, is there a Secord like player in the NHL now? what Secord had 200+ fights and scored over 50 goals; who would even be the closest to him now, maybe Perry in his prime, or ???
thge league has gotten soft by design, and created a new type of player, 'dirty' ...we have a bunch of cheap shot artists who target star players on a regular basis, which is the new version of Perry, but, he was always a dirty player, and guys like Bennett (and Bunting), most are occasional 40 point players who just take runs and cheap shots

I am the same age as Waynes brother and our lacrosse clubs were rivals and I watched Gordie play on a line with his sons for Hartford against the Toros live so we are probably close to the same age , Al Secord was for sure a beast , only 1 50 goal season lol but the only player to record 40 goals and 300+ PIMs in the same season . None of what you have said in this post changes the fact that the none players you named in the post I quoted were soft . They were all men amongst men .

 

[mydnyte]

I am the same age as Waynes brother and our lacrosse clubs were rivals and I watched Gordie play on a line with his sons for Hartford against the Toros live so we are probably close to the same age , Al Secord was for sure a beast , only 1 50 goal season lol but the only player to record 40 goals and 300+ PIMs in the same season . None of what you have said in this post changes the fact that the none players you named in the post I quoted were soft . They were all men amongst men .

back then, they were considered soft (i grew up with some of the goons, so, my perspective may be skewed) ...maybe not by todays standards though

 

[horner]

i really couldnt care less about winning a round ...if i dont win the cup, i'd rather miss the playoffs.
there is one winner, and different levels of losers.

Like f*** you know what iam saying of fycking course I want to wn a f***ing cu. That is why I have put up with this garbage organization for 50 yrs..
We have one one f***ing with this weak core that crumbles when it counts.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I watched them all, and watched Hull's Father who was a nasty piece of work, and the entire Howe family, who were just tough and nasty. ...like i said, those are a rare breed of skill and nasty.

the problems started the day they created the instigator penalty, where a goon that could skate was no longer able to protect the 'star' player
...best combo goon/player was Secord, but, tell me, is there a Secord like player in the NHL now? what Secord had 200+ fights and scored over 50 goals; who would even be the closest to him now, maybe Perry in his prime, or ???
thge league has gotten soft by design, and created a new type of player, 'dirty' ...we have a bunch of cheap shot artists who target star players on a regular basis, which is the new version of Perry, but, he was always a dirty player, and guys like Bennett (and Bunting), most are occasional 40 point players who just take runs and cheap shots

Yes so true .. Da toughest I ever run up against was Probs .. and I got him when he was a rook on Brantford .. da big guy could skate pretty decent, could score goals and didn't say much .. i remember draper telling me to watch out for da big guy in front of net .. i thought to myself well he is smaller than me and i got a few years on him .. well did i ever learn .. dude hit like a hammer missing 2 teeth knocked out .. but an amazing guy who could share a beer with after as no hard feelings .. Secord had more skill and talent but no one i ever ran across could match Probs straight up and i played with mcrae bros .. straight up honest tough guy who could hit, score and fight

 

[Sypher04]

so Kadri cost us 2 playoff Failures? Who owns the other 5 playoff failures ?

I never said that

 

[mydnyte]

Like f*** you know what iam saying of fycking course I want to wn a f***ing cu. That is why I have put up with this garbage organization for 50 yrs..
We have one one f***ing with this weak core that crumbles when it counts.

Its true I dont see the effort that I would like from the 'core' either.
Matthews should be able to bully his way around the ice, but, he was off all season long from that Benn x-check to the ribs, and I speculated he played the season with fractured ribs, which could be why he couldnt take a 1-timer, or get his usual shot off. He did work his ass off on defense though, but our defense was useless.
Marner looked like he was getting better, but, you can only hold the puck so long when there is nobody getting open to pass to, and the name of the game to beat the leafs is pressure everyone.
Nylander wasnt 'bad', as he really is a support goal scorer, and had a few important goals, but, he could be a game changer on a more regular basis
Tavares was good in tight and along the boards, otherwise, he didnt bring much other than faceoffs.
RoR was rubbish, maybe the hand held him back, but even defensively, lots of mistakes from a guy i never expected them from
It doesnt help that this team has made it an art form in the playoffs of either missing the net, or hitting the goalies crest.

my main concern(s) were 2 fold:
1:
our Defense is really garbage compared to other top teams.
Reilly is our #1 and he shouldnt be a #1, a 2 at best, and everyone else should be bottom pair defenders. We have no strength at all on defense, and got bullied in front of our own net.
Holl was useless and got 20+ mins, Brodie is insanely weak and easy to outmuscle... positionally, he's good, but, too soft.
McCabe was in over his head, and after he laid out that one big hit, thought that was his job rather than defending
Gio was meant to be a 12 min bottom pair guy, and they had him paired with are most useless D in Holl most of the time, and he was just worn down and useless by the end.
Lily got hurt late, then back early, had a crap game, and was benched, and never got back in his groove
...Dubas gave us a nice forward group, but, did squat other than add depth pieces on Defense since he got Muzzin, and never replaced him.

2:
Keefe should have been fired mid season after the no-show games against bottom dwellers!
Keefe was out-coached in every series we played, and to be honest, we should have lost the first round, except Samsonov took it personally after blowing game 5, and stood on his head in 6.
I think he entered the playoffs hurt too, or at least not 100%, more like 70%.
I dont think Keefe has any idea or gameplan, there are 'great' lines out there. because they always play together and know exactly where everyone will be, we mix it up shift to shift, and having 2 guys know where to go, and the 3rd trying to stay out of the way doesnt work.
Same goes for D-pairings, and its WAY more important to be used to your D-partner,
Our D were like socks in a dryer, and they played that way too, all over the place, not knowing what anyone else was doing, or where they should be.

I HOPE Treliving is true to his word, and rebuild the defense in the Calgary style, and then we can see if not chasing the puck around our end shift after shift because our defense sucks and then get deflated after working your ass off and allowing a goal because a defender turned the wrong way, or forgot to cover his man in front of the net, or was just outmuscled and let them have 3-4 whacks at the puck before it went in. ...that is very demoralizing, especially when at the other end, the defense isnt playing like garbage, and is hacking the hell out of you, with never a call, unless you retaliate, and then you are in the box.

slightly longer rant than i expected ...not disagreeing with you at all, just slightly different perspective.

 

[weems]

Yes so true .. Da toughest I ever run up against was Probs .. and I got him when he was a rook on Brantford .. da big guy could skate pretty decent, could score goals and didn't say much .. i remember draper telling me to watch out for da big guy in front of net .. i thought to myself well he is smaller than me and i got a few years on him .. well did i ever learn .. dude hit like a hammer missing 2 teeth knocked out .. but an amazing guy who could share a beer with after as no hard feelings .. Secord had more skill and talent but no one i ever ran across could match Probs straight up and i played with mcrae bros .. straight up honest tough guy who could hit, score and fight

Ya Probert was a all time tough guy and it also shows just how tough Wendel was to be able to actually hold his own in a few of them.

 

[horner]

Its true I dont see the effort that I would like from the 'core' either.
Matthews should be able to bully his way around the ice, but, he was off all season long from that Benn x-check to the ribs, and I speculated he played the season with fractured ribs, which could be why he couldnt take a 1-timer, or get his usual shot off. He did work his ass off on defense though, but our defense was useless.
Marner looked like he was getting better, but, you can only hold the puck so long when there is nobody getting open to pass to, and the name of the game to beat the leafs is pressure everyone.
Nylander wasnt 'bad', as he really is a support goal scorer, and had a few important goals, but, he could be a game changer on a more regular basis
Tavares was good in tight and along the boards, otherwise, he didnt bring much other than faceoffs.
RoR was rubbish, maybe the hand held him back, but even defensively, lots of mistakes from a guy i never expected them from
It doesnt help that this team has made it an art form in the playoffs of either missing the net, or hitting the goalies crest.

my main concern(s) were 2 fold:
1:
our Defense is really garbage compared to other top teams.
Reilly is our #1 and he shouldnt be a #1, a 2 at best, and everyone else should be bottom pair defenders. We have no strength at all on defense, and got bullied in front of our own net.
Holl was useless and got 20+ mins, Brodie is insanely weak and easy to outmuscle... positionally, he's good, but, too soft.
McCabe was in over his head, and after he laid out that one big hit, thought that was his job rather than defending
Gio was meant to be a 12 min bottom pair guy, and they had him paired with are most useless D in Holl most of the time, and he was just worn down and useless by the end.
Lily got hurt late, then back early, had a crap game, and was benched, and never got back in his groove
...Dubas gave us a nice forward group, but, did squat other than add depth pieces on Defense since he got Muzzin, and never replaced him.

2:
Keefe should have been fired mid season after the no-show games against bottom dwellers!
Keefe was out-coached in every series we played, and to be honest, we should have lost the first round, except Samsonov took it personally after blowing game 5, and stood on his head in 6.
I think he entered the playoffs hurt too, or at least not 100%, more like 70%.
I dont think Keefe has any idea or gameplan, there are 'great' lines out there. because they always play together and know exactly where everyone will be, we mix it up shift to shift, and having 2 guys know where to go, and the 3rd trying to stay out of the way doesnt work.
Same goes for D-pairings, and its WAY more important to be used to your D-partner,
Our D were like socks in a dryer, and they played that way too, all over the place, not knowing what anyone else was doing, or where they should be.

I HOPE Treliving is true to his word, and rebuild the defense in the Calgary style, and then we can see if not chasing the puck around our end shift after shift because our defense sucks and then get deflated after working your ass off and allowing a goal because a defender turned the wrong way, or forgot to cover his man in front of the net, or was just outmuscled and let them have 3-4 whacks at the puck before it went in. ...that is very demoralizing, especially when at the other end, the defense isnt playing like garbage, and is hacking the hell out of you, with never a call, unless you retaliate, and then you are in the box.

slightly longer rant than i expected ...not disagreeing with you at all, just slightly different perspective.

I wanted to do nothing at the deadline last yr sink or swim with the core.
If they fell flat then make changes to the core.
I was wanted to have extra bullets for this yr knowing Boston and TB were going to be in cap hell.
Know we have no bullets because of dubas .
You can't trade away everything every year.

 

[horner]

I really hope Treliving makes it a priority to bring in some players that aren't afraid to hit or be hit.

Top to bottom this team is softer than a flaccid phallus.

A collection of neutered beta males. Like Barbie's boyfriend. Lacking testosterone producing glands.

Nothing below the waist.

The most disgusting thing is their refusal to stand up for themselves or each other. Soft, weak, and passive. They just take their beating and thank the other team for it after.

Too many players lacking any stones.

I have played hockey nothing major and many many decades, I have never seen a team like we have.
It dosnt bond a team when you don't stick together, I would have been in shock watching mathews getting rage dolled.