Pre-Game Talk: Toronto @ New Jersey

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,695
33,033
Reading this thread you'd think Toronto was in last place.
This team deserves the benefit of the doubt. Their playoff history proves it.

Well that’s a pissoff
I don't want to over react but when a young d man is excelling in a role, and has improved from the previous year, you don't demote them.
Last year it kind of made sense, but this year nope.
 

Jimmy Firecracker

Fire Sheldon.
Mar 30, 2010
36,246
35,526
Mississauga
At a certain point you have to play your young players in the playoffs so they can get that highly coveted playoff experience. Lily has done everything asked of him this season. The only thing going against him is that he wasn’t drafted 5th overall 10+ years ago and isn’t the favoured son of the head coach.
 

Kurtz

Registered User
Jul 17, 2005
10,107
6,984
Yeah as someone who's defended Holl this year...I don't get this quote by Keefe. At the very least, try rotating Holl/Schenn/Lil depending on the matchup, etc. To relegate Lil to the 7th dman role when he's probably the best overall dman of the 3, and the only one with a long future here makes little sense.
 

TMLife17

Is this approved?
Oct 14, 2021
3,910
5,114
There is a legitimate argument that Lilly has been our best D this season... this has to be a joke
 
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Nhlpowerweek

Senor
Oct 5, 2022
2,568
1,880
With Matthews, I don’t get it. If he is hurt again, didn’t he have some kind of surgery on his wrist already? WTF is wrong with him now? If he is hurt, then why is he playing? Unless it’s one of those things that can’t get worse by playing through it? If it’s just a down year, then that’s ok, it happens. The thing is, we don’t know what is going on. Just baffling right now.
His facial expessions are not promising neither sire. I am a psychologist and a doctor been former so I have insight on human behaviour in a hard way. Matthews, looking at him on the bench and all; doesnt seem like a happy camper sire. The nose should enjoy life more and find more subjects of interest. Picking up garbage for example is fun. You never know what to find. At the leafs offices also. Windows, are open to all.
 

AvroArrow

Fire Keefe
Jun 10, 2011
18,193
18,537
Toronto
At a certain point you have to play your young players in the playoffs so they can get that highly coveted playoff experience. Lily has done everything asked of him this season. The only thing going against him is that he wasn’t drafted 5th overall 10+ years ago and isn’t the favoured son of the head coach.

Yup. Not playing Lily again is a fireable offence.
 

Nhlpowerweek

Senor
Oct 5, 2022
2,568
1,880
Buntings game fell off when he started the crazy screaming at the refs……….maybe he got other issues going on that we don’t know about?
Of course he does. Anger management like Jack nicholson is a huge problem at some. Imagine being a wife of a person who is always yelling like a british house lord. There's no escape sire. No escape at all.

We all have many issues and some seek counceling. Help for real. Praying the Lord is the biggest and only real help though. The only way to be saved.
 
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notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
9,902
7,801
I don’t think he’s Hyman 2.0. Seems more like the agitator version of a Clarke MacArthur type player. If we can make it work great but I wouldn’t invest too heavily.
Not as good as Hyman, but there were similar complaints. My meaning was more along the lines of someone else turning him into what he could have been here.
 

CabanaBoy5

Registered User
Feb 17, 2013
3,464
3,911
Woodbridge
The fact he’s shitting on bunting and Lilly and barely has anything critical to say about Rielly is beyond me Mo has played like steamy garbage hopefully Lilly won’t be dragged down by him tonight
When Keefe was asked about Rielly, he referenced the Calgary game where he thought he was good and should have had a goal. But the question wasn't referring to that game, it was referring to the Vancouver game, and the 20 f***ing games before the Calgary game. Keefe is losing alot of Leafs Nation. For his sake, and the sake of his job, he better win a round or two or he is going to be skewered.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,645
8,284
T.O.
Everyone blaming Keefe for benching Liljegren like his GM didn't give him 3 new defensemen to play. If Dubas is confident in Liljegren you don't add like that, period. This was the only way it was going to play out if you give a coach a bunch of veteran options.
Nothing wrong with adding depth for the playoffs. What should be happening is a rotation to get the new guys acclimated, not scratching Liljegren outright when everyone else is healthy.
 

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,082
16,062
The Naki
Are we sitting Liljegren again?

Keefe is starting to seriously piss me off but Dubas is up to his neck in this **** as well

If you're going to trade picks for guys like Schenn your giving Keefe the opportunity to do stupid **** with the lineup

Neither of them deserves any benefit of the doubt, screw this up and they can both go as far as I'm concerned
 
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1specter

Registered User
Sep 27, 2016
10,865
15,571
Are we sitting Liljegren again?

Keefe is starting to seriously piss me off but Dubas is up to his neck in this **** as well

If you're going to trade picks for guys like Schenn your giving Keefe the opportunity to do stupid **** with the lineup

Neither of them deserves any benefit of the doubt, screw this up and they can both go as far as I'm concerned
No Liljegren is paired with Rielly for tonight, but Keefe's commentary is a bit concerning as when the playoffs roll around and if the defense is fully healthy I have a strong suspicion he will play Justin Holl or Schenn over Liljegren.
 

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
32,239
49,710
We win in spite of Keefe. Our record against poor teams is proof positive he isn’t a good motivator either. He gets along with Dubas, so there is a good synergy there, but he’s been out coached three straight playoffs and the team runs itself, obviously.
 

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
11,585
9,827
Win and all is forgiven. But lose making questionable lineup choices and you’ll deserve everything you get
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
78,982
53,896
When Keefe was asked about Rielly, he referenced the Calgary game where he thought he was good and should have had a goal. But the question wasn't referring to that game, it was referring to the Vancouver game, and the 20 f***ing games before the Calgary game. Keefe is losing alot of Leafs Nation. For his sake, and the sake of his job, he better win a round or two or he is going to be skewered.

Seems like they coddle the core players and look at it as a partnership between the inner core and management and coaching.

All well and good if it works but if you have to start motivating old school you run into some serious messaging issues.
 

1specter

Registered User
Sep 27, 2016
10,865
15,571
We win in spite of Keefe. Our record against poor teams is proof positive he isn’t a good motivator either. He gets along with Dubas, so there is a good synergy there, but he’s been out coached three straight playoffs and the team runs itself, obviously.
This team is weird, it's hard to know how much impact is from the coach and how much is from players just running the asylum. Babcock was a hardass coach and they seemed to tune him out like 2 years in, Keefe is more of a player's coach but even he can't seem to reign them in fully, though I agree with you on the outcoaching piece - he seems to have trouble adjusting to opposing strategies. At some point though you just gotta wonder if some of these players just don't have it in them to put aside the ego and be fully coachable. Playing in this market doesn't help, when you're basically a pseudo-celebrity and getting handed out money, fame and sponsorships before you've really accomplished anything noteworthy.
 
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DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
32,239
49,710
This team is weird, it's hard to know how much impact is from the coach and how much is from players just running the asylum. Babcock was a hardass coach and they seemed to tune him out like 2 years in, Keefe is more of a player's coach but even he can't seem to reign them in fully, though I agree with you on the outcoaching piece - he seems to have trouble adjusting to opposing strategies. At some point though you just gotta wonder if some of these players just don't have it in them to put aside the ego and be fully coachable. Playing in this market doesn't help, when you're basically a pseudo-celebrity and getting handed out money, fame and sponsorships before you've really accomplished anything noteworthy.
Interestingly “Babcock“ is actually trending on Twitter.

I‘m of the strong opinion Keefe should have been canned last off season, let’s hope he’s figured it out this playoffs. Last year game 4 pregame he was so out of his depth I knew we were going to lose that game.
 
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PROUD PAPA

Registered User
Sep 20, 2021
2,327
2,560
We have a lot of new bodies and to find the best fits requires experimenting.
Now is the time IMO for just that rather than out of necessity later on when compatibility is a complete mystery.
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
9,902
7,801
That is an interesting stat for sure especially when you look at it for comparing Sandin vs Holl.

Holl has played 1068 minutes 5v5 with his Dzone shift start % being 10%
Sandin has played 848 minutes 5v5 with his Dzone shift start % being 7.4%

Holl's % of shift starts on the fly 67.8%
Sandin's % of shift starts on the fly 71.2% (#1 in entire league for D that have played 845 mins)

Holl has 29 defensive zone giveaways
Sandin has 26 defensive zone giveaways

So Holl is playing way more, more often starting in the dzone and more often against the other teams best players but turns the puck over less in his own end.
Not "turns the puck over less" but just at a lower rate. 20% more ice time but only 10% more turnovers.
 

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