Proposal: Toronto Goaltending Shakeup

[Mick Jagr]

Why on EARTH are the Leafs giving up one of the best goaltenders in hockey and replacing him with JAKE ALLEN?!

The Leafs are built to win now. You don't give up the only thing keeping you in games when you have such a weak defense. Jake Allen would be so poorly exposed on the Leafs.

 

[Tit]

We have one of the best tandems in the league imo.
Why not put an NHL defense in front of them instead?

 

[bernmeister]

Lundqvist
2021 2nd
For
Andersen
Kapanen

he'd be a good target. a deal around georgiev + deangelo for kapanen++ would be something i'd be down for

no x 2

We don't want older vets, exceptions notwithstanding, we are trying to pare down to a core. This is all the more so given only 7 F protection slots in upcoming ex draft
No interest in Kap at what Leafs would want

Geo to Leafs only if part of a package that returns Nylander
Otherwise send him to WC no bite back in the ass factor.

Deangelo yes, but + Buch + Geo for Nylander
THAT works for NY and arguably also TOR

Otherwise, we make other moves with those pieces

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

no x 2

We don't want older vets, exceptions notwithstanding, we are trying to pare down to a core. This is all the more so given only 7 F protection slots in upcoming ex draft
No interest in Kap at what Leafs would want

Geo to Leafs only if part of a package that returns Nylander
Otherwise send him to WC no bite back in the ass factor.

Deangelo yes, but + Buch + Geo for Nylander
THAT works for NY and arguably also TOR

Otherwise, we make other moves with those pieces

I think that value is actually pretty close and while I have no doubt that Deangelo would improve the Leafs blueline (he'd improve pretty much any blueline) I just don't know if he's the right kind of defenseman the Leafs need right now. He's a high offense guy and while he's an RHD the ideal fit would be a rock steady two way guy (leaning more towards stay at home) to pair with Rielly.

Now having said that Deangelo would be a great partner for Muzzin on the 2nd pairing, but then that still leaves a hole on the top pair which is the biggest need right now. It would move Holl down to the 3rd pair which I think is where he probably belongs.

Maybe that allows TOR to move Dermott and Andersen for a top RHD to pair with Rielly or to acquire the necessary assets to go out and get one in a trade. It would also open up some cap space to sign a UFA if they go that route.

I do think their preference would be to do a direct trade in order to ensure the right fit and get the best value but either way I think your valuation is pretty good here.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Lundqvist
2021 2nd


For

Andersen
Kapanen

In what world would Toronto ever consider this deal.

 

[rent free]

Raanta and Andersen as a base with picks on both sides.

i'd make this trade if raanta wasn't injury prone, but i'm guessing you wouldn't if he was hehe

 

[hamzarocks]

no x 2

We don't want older vets, exceptions notwithstanding, we are trying to pare down to a core. This is all the more so given only 7 F protection slots in upcoming ex draft
No interest in Kap at what Leafs would want

Geo to Leafs only if part of a package that returns Nylander
Otherwise send him to WC no bite back in the ass factor.

Deangelo yes, but + Buch + Geo for Nylander
THAT works for NY and arguably also TOR

Otherwise, we make other moves with those pieces

It's a very good offer only issue is I dont see how we can afford those pieces.

With the year DeAngelo has should he not he looking at 6+. Buchenvich is a 50+ point player so another 4ish million. The three pieces look like they will cost 12 million or so while nylander makes only 7. Wonder if taking out DeAngelo and adding nils lunqvist/K'Andre Miller +2nd is doable.

For the leafs we can fit the pieces in from a cap perspective and for the rangers they can keep DeAngelo after his great year or they can trade him and get more picks for the cupboard.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Raanta and Andersen as a base with picks on both sides.

Raanta is hurt to much

 

[bernmeister]

I think that value is actually pretty close and while I have no doubt that Deangelo would improve the Leafs blueline (he'd improve pretty much any blueline) I just don't know if he's the right kind of defenseman the Leafs need right now. He's a high offense guy and while he's an RHD the ideal fit would be a rock steady two way guy (leaning more towards stay at home) to pair with Rielly.

Now having said that Deangelo would be a great partner for Muzzin on the 2nd pairing, but then that still leaves a hole on the top pair which is the biggest need right now. It would move Holl down to the 3rd pair which I think is where he probably belongs.

Maybe that allows TOR to move Dermott and Andersen for a top RHD to pair with Rielly or to acquire the necessary assets to go out and get one in a trade. It would also open up some cap space to sign a UFA if they go that route.

I do think their preference would be to do a direct trade in order to ensure the right fit and get the best value but either way I think your valuation is pretty good here.

thank you for the positive feedback and the effort in your analysis

like I said, yeah, Parayko is the preferred target/type but -- and correct me if I overlooked anyone -- I don't see him or a close substitute being available.

That means, like I'm saying, you either consider other options or stand pat.

Deangelo is a good fallback option.
Offense is his forte, but he is adequate + on defense and his good first pass helps drive offense = helps time of possession in offensive zone, indirectly helps defending your own zone.

 

[bernmeister]

It's a very good offer only issue is I dont see how we can afford those pieces.

With the year DeAngelo has should he not he looking at 6+. Buchenvich is a 50+ point player so another 4ish million. The three pieces look like they will cost 12 million or so while nylander makes only 7. Wonder if taking out DeAngelo and adding nils lunqvist/K'Andre Miller +2nd is doable.

For the leafs we can fit the pieces in from a cap perspective and for the rangers they can keep DeAngelo after his great year or they can trade him and get more picks for the cupboard.

totally doable cap wise, even arguably saves you $ deal as orig presented.
To first answer your ?, I think taking into account cap, exp dr, etc I don't think either of those 2 prospects gets moved anytime soon.

Boards are always served when peeps do due diligence and check out the $ #s.
Here's my thinking.

Deangelo just wants to get paid IMO.
He will take more for less term, but I think if you go 4.6 or 4.8 x 5, and he takes it. After all he is still young and 5 ish yrs term, he ups his stature and still gets a big payday.

Geo is < 1 m elc to rfa = good team control going forward

Buch short term is 3.25 this upcoming season
he wants $, but that will not be a prob anytime soon

So yeah, all of that is more than Nylander's 6.9+ not including if there is a small cap dump

But remember:
you are getting 3 guys for 1
that's 2 guys you can flip for less salary coming back

and Andersson, if you like, do Campbell + Geo in net, and that saves you $ right there.

And if all else fails. a small flip of cap dumps can squeeze an extra couple of bucks if that's unavoidably nec

So yes, Leafs do need a follow up or 2, but this is doable

 

[Pyrophorus]

Going from Andersen to Allen isn't really a shakeup I would want. I do think the Leafs need to move on from Andersen sooner rather than later though

UFAs like Lehner or Markstrom should be in the cards.
I also agree that we shoud move on from him, and should be part of a big shakeup this year.

 

[FerrisRox]

The Leafs are built to win now.

 

[BlueBaron]

Allen is not the way to go. Giving up a guy who has value to replace with a guy who doesn't tells you what is wrong with this.

Like seriously? Who gets worse just for fun?

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Andersen didn’t want to sign with the Canes when they drafted him. Not sure if that’s changed.

Because they had Cam Ward.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Because they had Cam Ward.

We needed a competent backup and someone to take over for Cam. For like 12 years we never had a decent goaltending duo so we were forced to over play Cam and he wrecked his back and then started sucking. Even still every goaltender we brought in to outplay him ended up sucking and couldn’t take the starter job.

 

[CatchyTune]

You're right, that is pretty laughable.

Should have said "now and the next 5-10 years"

 

[Mick Jagr]

You're kidding yourself if you think their forward depth and all world goaltender aren't built for winning now. Yes, their D needs an overhaul, but that doesn't mean they aren't built to win now and will be a legit contender for the next decade if they play their cards right.

Classic anti-Leaf bias of HF at it again. I'm not even a Toronto fan and I can recognize it.

 

[FerrisRox]

You're kidding yourself if you think their forward depth and all world goaltender aren't built for winning now. Yes, their D needs an overhaul, but that doesn't mean they aren't built to win now and will be a legit contender for the next decade if they play their cards right.

Classic anti-Leaf bias of HF at it again. I'm not even a Toronto fan and I can recognize it.

Nothing to do with "Anti-Leaf Bias" (a classic trope repeatedly offered up for any criticism against the team) and instead just a simple statement of fact because their defence is atrocious. Nobody "build to win" and builds that kind of defense.

Get a clue.

Shouldn't they become a contender first before you claim they are a "legit contender for the next ten years?"

Are the Panthers a legit contender right now? They also have an offence as good as the Leafs and a defense as bad as them an an "all world goaltender." Are they a legit contender for the next ten years?

 

[Syckle78]

You're kidding yourself if you think their forward depth and all world goaltender aren't built for winning now. Yes, their D needs an overhaul, but that doesn't mean they aren't built to win now and will be a legit contender for the next decade if they play their cards right.

Classic anti-Leaf bias of HF at it again. I'm not even a Toronto fan and I can recognize it.

*looks at location*

 

[varano]

Andersen is a great goalie whos played infront of a bottom of the line defence for years. Hes not the problem

 

[rent free]

Andersen is a great goalie whos played infront of a bottom of the line defence for years. Hes not the problem

This season he's been sub par and who knows if he'll return to his normal form

 

[Jerkbait]

Andersen is a great goalie whos played infront of a bottom of the line defence for years. Hes not the problem

He can be incredibly hot and cold... he had some great games this year and some not so great... his number are average. Top 12 or so ...

 

[shortfuze]

Nothing to do with "Anti-Leaf Bias" (a classic trope repeatedly offered up for any criticism against the team) and instead just a simple statement of fact because their defence is atrocious. Nobody "build to win" and builds that kind of defense.

Get a clue.

Shouldn't they become a contender first before you claim they are a "legit contender for the next ten years?"

Are the Panthers a legit contender right now? They also have an offence as good as the Leafs and a defense as bad as them an an "all world goaltender." Are they a legit contender for the next ten years?

Well I would think your statement is more opinion and not fact. I mean the last 2 years they were a top 7 team. This year they were a little worse but no one knows where they would have finished. Let’s say they finished the year at 12, would you not consider a team that finished 7th the last 2 years and 12th this year(on a worse year) a contender. Are only the 6 teams ahead of them the past 2 years considered contenders? If they fix up their team defence they will be a top 5-7 team moving forward. Are those not contenders for the cup?

 

[varano]

This season he's been sub par and who knows if he'll return to his normal form

So one sub par season and his game is lost?

 

[Em etah Eh]

This is funny to me. OP is worried about signing Andersen but if this deal does somehow work out and Allen has a good year, I’d be more worried about an Allen extension...