Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Patrick Marleau - 3 years, $6.25M AAV (part 3)

[The Head Crusher]

Not if he scores 40 goals a year for next 3.

Ha! Fat Chance. He has scored 40 goal in only once, and that was 09/10.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Worst contract in the league beside Weber?

It's amazing that you've even suggested this. Not even close.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

It made no sense unless there was suppose to be another deal that fell through.

It was by far one of the dumbest moves this offseason. The Leafs brass have made very small mistakes up until this summer. Hainsey while overpaid IMO is only slightly more than he should have been but when you take into consideration that its only two years okay I can live with it. Same with Hymann, the guy played on A.M. wing and couldn't put up more than 30 points. I get it he does a lot of things well, and he is great on the PK and yes we are buying two UFA years but he is certainly paid 250K more than he should have been, again not a massive deal. Marleau was just pure stupidity IMO. He is 38, coming off one of the highest shooting %years, you have him on the books in the first year of both Matthews and Marners deals. I could go on and on and people will say well the contract is structured so and so, we can dump him for a cap floor team-it will be at a cost that is for damn sure and of course the obvious-WE HAVE YET TO ADDRESS OUR NEED FOR A TOP 4 RHD!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have a lot of players I would like to see be given a shot with the big team. That is what was so great about the past year and a half is that we let the growing kids play. I don't claim to truly know what we have in the likes of Kap, Rychel, etc but I would rather somebody who is young and hungry be given the opportunity to play with a pretty stable team and a great coaching staff then give a massive contract and playing time to a has been just because he has played in big games in the past. I can tell you watching the playoffs last spring it wasn't that vets that led this team it was the next generation. A trend that will continue, this is why we need new blood in the front office.

[MOD] New blood in the front office? The only reason we have the team we do right now is because of this front office.

 

[dirk41]

If you have a point, come out with the WHOLE STORY....

Sure, his most 3 common linemates were thos 3, but he only played with them for ~1/3 the season... He spent more time with 2nd/3rd line tweeners, did he not?

The point should have been quite obvious.

You felt a need to add a qualifier. It was disguised as an attempt to add context, though your failure to provide the rest of the context spoke in spades of your intent.

He spent something like 65% of his time away from those guys.

Couture spent next to no time playing with Thornton or Pavelski, so we can conclude that the time Marleau was playing with Couture, he was not playing with Thornton or Pavelski. So that would mean he played 2/3rds of 5 on 5 with Thornton/Pavelski or Couture. Your assertion that he spent 65% of his time away from those guys is false. Spending more time with Thornton and Pavelski wouldn't necessarily have increased his stats:


Marleau 5 on 5 points per 60
Overall: 1.47
Thornton: 1.14
Pavelski: 1.21
Couture: 2.26
Boedker: 2.12
Ward: 1.38
Tirney: 1.47
Hertl: 1.58

I guess now that he'll be free of two future hall of famers, Pavelski and Thornton, Marleau's stats should explode?

Notice how you ignored my point about Marleau's 250 minutes of PP time, more than any Leaf? Apparently that doesn't count as "context."

How about more context? His 14.2% shooting percentage was his highest since 09/10?

Is all of this context making it look likely that he will score more than 46 points next year?

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

[MOD] New blood in the front office? The only reason we have the team we do right now is because of this front office.

Yeah. I'm as big a lead hater as anyone but this team is in the best hands it's been in for what .. The last 20 years? The front office is hardly the issue with the team right now.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Couture spent next to no time playing with Thornton or Pavelski, so we can conclude that the time Marleau was playing with Couture, he was not playing with Thornton or Pavelski. So that would mean he played 2/3rds of 5 on 5 with Thornton/Pavelski or Couture. Your assertion that he spent 65% of his time away from those guys is false. Spending more time with Thornton and Pavelski wouldn't necessarily have increased his stats:


Marleau 5 on 5 points per 60
Overall: 1.47
Thornton: 1.14
Pavelski: 1.21
Couture: 2.26
Boedker: 2.12
Ward: 1.38
Tirney: 1.47
Hertl: 1.58

I guess now that he'll be free of two future hall of famers, Pavelski and Thornton, Marleau's stats should explode?

Notice how you ignored my point about Marleau's 250 minutes of PP time, more than any Leaf? Apparently that doesn't count as "context."

How about more context? His 14.2% shooting percentage was his highest since 09/10?

Is all of this context making it look likely that he will score more than 46 points next year?

You're really over playing your hand here, first off Pavelski is hardly a guaranteed to be in the HOF. You're twisting stats to fit a narrative that you like but by your own logic then surely Matthews/Marner/Nylander will have career years playing with a future HOF pick in Marleau.

You should just wait and see how he looks next season.

 

[CraigsList]

Can't believe this almost has part 4.

 

[Foppberg]

If he signed anywhere else but Toronto, I doubt it would've gotten past one.

 

[howkie]

Why is people arguing, Leafs has np with this contract, maybe JVR wont be resigned and Marle is playing his role for the next 2 years... big deal.

 

[Funk21]

There is just so much wrong with this post...

Your logic is that we should not do anything or add anyone or improve the team in other ways because we haven't gotten a top 4 rhd? Don't you think if one was available they would have tried to get that player. They tried to get Hamonic but that fell through. You're saying that instead of playing one of the most consistent scorers in the past decade they should fill that hole with a hungry rookie who might be lucky to amass 30 points? By that logic let's sell off everyone over 25 and have a team full of rookies! They're the ones who led this team in the playoffs, right? The Leafs now have one of the best front offices in the league and you want to replace them? With who? Look at what they have done with this team since they took over and the quality of their prospects and tell me they haven't done a phenomenal job.

Answer me this one simple question... Does Marleau make the Leafs a better team?

I want Lou out, pretty happy with what the leafs have done up until this summer and the luck we had with the lottery. I think it is time that we seriously look at Dubas and move Lou into an advisory role.

Overpaying on every contract we dished out this summer is not a good trend. Now while Hymann and Hainsey are managable the Markeau contract is horrible. Sure we may be deeper down the wings but we did not address our core issue IMO. That of a top 4 D. Secondly we have put ourselves in a cap crunch situation and it will likely cost us to get rid of him in the third year. Bad. There is there is a ton of moves I could question, like why the hell did we offer a bloody second for Beaulieau. I would certainly think that kid can turn it around like Gardiner did once he got some decent coaching. At worst he is a second pairing guy who has some soze and grit. MB screwed the pooch on that and the Sabres got him for nothing.

Say what you will but if there are 4 parts to this tread something is not kosher.

 

[DrJustice]

My favorite part of this is how a large chunk of Toronto Fans think that if the signing doesn't work out, that someone is going to take Marleau off there hands. Why would anyone do this? The only reason would be if they were to attach assets to Marleau to get him out of town. Not many teams are in the business of helping the Leaf's cap situation, so if he doesn't produce it's going to take something to get him out of town.

 

[Leafidelity]

My favorite part of this is how a large chunk of Toronto Fans think that if the signing doesn't work out, that someone is going to take Marleau off there hands. Why would anyone do this? The only reason would be if they were to attach assets to Marleau to get him out of town. Not many teams are in the business of helping the Leaf's cap situation, so if he doesn't produce it's going to take something to get him out of town.

Because while his caphit remains $6,250,000, Marleau makes $1,250,000 in real money in the 3rd year?

My favourite part is fans of other teams pretending they know the contract details.

 

[DrJustice]

Because while his caphit remains $6,250,000, Marleau makes $1,250,000 in real money in the 3rd year?

My favourite part is fans of other teams pretending they know the contract details.

So are we just gonna pretend a $6.25 cap hit is a very tradeable contract? If he is worth the 6.25 (he won't be) the Leafs wont be trading him, and if he isn't worth it you'll have to give something up for someone to take him off your hands. That's the whole point of a hard cap is to hurt teams for giving out stupid contracts.

You'll be giving up a good prospect to get rid of that contract, that's my prediction.

 

[Divine]

So are we just gonna pretend a $6.25 cap hit is a very tradeable contract? If he is worth the 6.25 (he won't be) the Leafs wont be trading him, and if he isn't worth it you'll have to give something up for someone to take him off your hands. That's the whole point of a hard cap is to hurt teams for giving out stupid contracts.

Or... worst case scenerio. The Leafs eat 6.25M for 1 year.

By that time: Lupul, JVR, Komarov, Bozak, Hainsey, Gardiner will all be expired. The only guys getting a raise are JVR/Gardiner, and that's assuming JVR's not traded.

 

[DrJustice]

Or... worst case scenerio. The Leafs eat 6.25M for 1 year.

By that time: Lupul, JVR, Komarov, Bozak, Hainsey, Gardiner will all be expired. The only guys getting a raise are JVR/Gardiner, and that's assuming JVR's not traded.

I wasn't saying you had ruined your entire franchise I just find it comical that people just assume you can trade him after two years. If he under-performs then I don't see a team helping you out unless you make it worth there while. If he does perform, why even trade him in the first place?

 

[Divine]

I wasn't saying you had ruined your entire franchise I just find it comical that people just assume you can trade him after two years. If he under-performs then I don't see a team helping you out unless you make it worth there while. If he does perform, why even trade him in the first place?

A retired Datsyuk/Pronger was traded for virtually nothing. This is easily tradeable for cheap.

 

[NeutralFan88]

I just find it funny that they had to overpay that much for a 38 year old to come play there with some budding stars. You would think he would take a discount to play in TO and with some nice up and coming players.

That's the sad part. Some CDN teams have that disadvantage. Overpay for guys to play in Canada.

 

[DrJustice]

A retired Datsyuk/Pronger was traded for virtually nothing. This is easily tradeable for cheap.

Arizona only did that to trade up for Chychrun. I'm sure they wouldn't call that nothing.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Arizona only did that to trade up for Chychrun. I'm sure they wouldn't call that nothing.

Shhh. Don't ruin the narrative that this was a genius move and Leafs didn't go of course.

 

[Divine]

Arizona only did that to trade up for Chychrun. I'm sure they wouldn't call that nothing.

No they didn't, why did they take Pronger then? because without those 2 contracts they were under the cap floor. But let's pretend we're ignoring those facts.

Detroit trades:
16 overall pick
7.5M Cap Hit

Arizona trades:
20th overall
53rd pick
Joe Vitale (1 year, 1.1M cap hit)

20th + A 2nd round pick seems like a normal (if not higher end) price to move up 4 spots in that range. Datsyuk's cap hit was traded for virtually nothing.

If Arizona really wanted to, they could have traded the 1st for 1st straight up for Datsyuk, but they also needed the hit..

 

[Damisoph]

Arizona only did that to trade up for Chychrun. I'm sure they wouldn't call that nothing.

Went to #16 from #20.

Anyways, I don't think the majority of Leaf fans think they will trade Marleau in the 3rd year, but a good portion think he'll be magically put on LTIR. I'm skeptical.

 

[DrJustice]

No they didn't, because without those 2 contracts they were under the cap floor. But let's pretend we're ignoring those facts. Why did they do Pronger then? They needed them to get over the cap.

Detroit trades:
16 overall pick
7.5M Cap Hit

Arizona trades:
20th overall
53rd pick
Joe Vitale (1 year, 1.1M cap hit)

20th + A 2nd round pick seems like a normal (if not higher end) price to move up 4 spots in that range. Datsyuk's cap hit was traded for virtually nothing.

If Arizona really wanted to, they could have traded the 1st for 1st straight up for Datsyuk, but they also needed the hit..

This deal does not happen if Chychurn doesn't fall to 16th in the draft. Arizona knew Detroit needed to trade that deal, and took advantage of the situation to get a prospect who was much more highly rated than what you would typically get #16-20

They were one of the only teams that had the space to take on the contract, they did it willingly to get something they really wanted. I'd also rather have Chychurn than #20 and a 2nd round pick + Joe Vitale if we are throwing out the Datsyuk contract.

 

[Divine]

This deal does not happen if Chychurn doesn't fall to 16th in the draft. Arizona knew Detroit needed to trade that deal, and took advantage of the situation to get a prospect who was much more highly rated than what you would typically get #16-20

They were one of the only teams that had the space to take on the contract, they did it willingly to get something they really wanted. I'd also rather have Chychrun than #20 and a 2nd round pick + Joe Vitale.

You could rather have Chychrun, but the Red Wings moved down 4 spots and probably got the player they wanted AND a second round pick + unloaded a 7.5M cap hit. They didn't want Chychrun either, so that didn't cost them anything.

If #20 turns out better than Chychurn, are you going to argue that Arizona got fleeced for Datsyuk?

At the end of the day, players drop all the time. You're acting like Chychrun was this god that only Arizona knew about. He was passed on 15 times (including by Arizona at #7), and Detroit probably didn't want him either (hence, trading down).

 

[bansheebeat]

I just find it funny that they had to overpay that much for a 38 year old to come play there with some budding stars. You would think he would take a discount to play in TO and with some nice up and coming players.

That's the sad part. Some CDN teams have that disadvantage. Overpay for guys to play in Canada.

No. You really wouldn't. Marleau and his family have been part of the Sharks organization since he was drafted in 1997. He's not going to just move thousands of kilometres away to another country just to play with some young kids. This is the only contract high enough to woo him away, likely for 2 years until he retires a Shark after the 3rd year of the deal.

 

[sxvnert]

My favorite part of this is how a large chunk of Toronto Fans think that if the signing doesn't work out, that someone is going to take Marleau off there hands. Why would anyone do this? The only reason would be if they were to attach assets to Marleau to get him out of town. Not many teams are in the business of helping the Leaf's cap situation, so if he doesn't produce it's going to take something to get him out of town.

Pavel Datsyuk