Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] John Tavares signs with the Leafs (7 years, $11M AAV) Part II

[TheDoldrums]

Tavares is definitely not overrated and he is elite and Toronto is lucky to have him but I don’t think he is better than some other centers besides the top 3. I’d rank Kopitar , Kuznetsov, Stamkos ahead of him . He’s equal to Seguin , Mackinnon but he’s barely entering his prime so he should be bringing the heat now I just don’t see him surpassing Kopitar the game is more than just stats and Kopi led the league for ATOI for all forwards and is one of the best if not the best 200 ft players .

I mean he's definitely better than Kuznetsov, this is recency bias off a hot postseason.

 

[BudForLife]

I think you are missing the point. He “lied” to the leafs, no one burned his jersey or lost their minds like this. He is in the rafters and loved.

The fan response to this is ridiculous

I don't think I missed the point.
Why do you say that he "lied" to the Leafs? I think the Leaf management "lied" to him first. The deal was NO TRADE, but management wanted to renege. Why doesn't anybody talk about that??
I don't think Mats "lied" about being traded half way through the season. He didn't want to leave. He went to Vancouver only to stick it to management not because he really wanted to go. Otherwise he would have taken the other 10 million.
Anyway, yes, you're right, his jersey is in the rafters, but there are many leaf fans who turned on Mats and are still mad at him. That's why I stick up for him...he deserved more respect than that.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

he's an elite player. The word "overrated" might be a good candidate for that thread on "phrases you hate". I only say he's overrated because people talk about him as being equal to the top centers in the league. His stats don't bear that out. He's a bit worse than Stamkos.

Isn't Tavares top 5 in goals scored since entering the league? So what stats are we talking about here? And Stamkos is pretty much a winger at this point.

 

[IPS]

What exactly is the controversy in signing Tavares?

He's a 28 year old elite centre who doesn't rely on skating ability to produce. He's also played his entire career with an extremely mediocre supporting cast who have all gotten way overpaid because of him.

By the end of next season, people will realize who John Tavares really is.

This is what JT does for his linemates. Now imagine him with a star like Marner.

No worries I'm sure neutral HFBoards fans will tell us Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo > Marner and Nylander

 

[JeremyTB]

Last two seasons Marleau is a +5, Kane is a -26. Although Marleau did have the advantage of playing on a sound defensive team last season.

Kane was a -31 with a horrible buffalo team in those 2 seasons. He was a +5 with the Sharks. Marleau was only a +1 last season with the Leafs.

 

[bionic]

No worries I'm sure neutral HFBoards fans will tell us Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo > Marner and Nylander

Hahaha.....I wouldn't put it by them.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

To be fair, Johansen literally is a 50-60 point 2C



Ain’t nobody paying for a subscription to The Athletic to see some guy copy and paste a questionable metric that lists ROR as a top-20 center

Well you missed out on a great article. That's not the only metric he uses. He uses multiple different metrics from different sources.

One of the main parts of the article is listing the top 20 players in points per game since 2013. There's three players at the top and then a bunch of them in the 0.95ish range.

"Looking at the company Tavares keeps, I don’t think he gets enough credit for how dominant he’s been offensively — especially when you consider how little he’s had to work with. Outside of the three best scorers on the planet (McDavid, Crosby and Malkin), every centre who has produced at a similar rate to Tavares has done so with a star winger. Seguin has Benn; Getzlaf has Perry; Stamkos has Kucherov; Backstrom has Ovechkin; Giroux has Voracek. Tavares, meanwhile, has had a revolving door of wingers who struggle mightily without him."

And here is my favourite part of the article:

Now, most of the league’s best passers have a below-average shot rate considering how often they’re dishing out the puck (ie. Malkin in the 41st percentile of shots per 60, Gaudreau in the 37th percentile, Draisatl in the 27th percentile). What makes Tavares stand out is that he combines his elite playmaking with the ability to generate his own offence (73rd percentile in shots per 60).

To help explain how ridiculous that is, here’s a list of players who finished in the 70th percentile of shot rate and 95th percentile in shot assist rate since 2016:

Artemi Panarin
Connor McDavid
Jack Eichel
John Tavares
Nikita Kucherov
Patrick Kane

 

[MattMartin]

Find it funny how Tavares and overrated have only been used in the same sentence since July 1st.

Never heard anyone call him overrated until he signed with the Maple Leafs

That would be false. Many claimed he was overrated for quite some time now. I'm not saying he is overrated, others have though.

 

[MattMartin]

Marner will outscore Barzal.

Have to agree here. I think Nylander as well.

 

[SI90]

Have to agree here. I think Nylander as well.

I’d also add Brown and Hyman.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Who are the top 5 players Tavares has played with in his career?

 

[SI90]

Who are the top 5 players Tavares has played with in his career?

Lee Vanek Okposo BAiley Barzal

 

[Kingsfan1]

I’d also add Brown and Hyman.

Lollll

 

[Halla]

Tavares is definitely not overrated and he is elite and Toronto is lucky to have him but I don’t think he is better than some other centers besides the top 3. I’d rank Kopitar , Kuznetsov, Stamkos ahead of him . He’s equal to Seguin , Mackinnon but he’s barely entering his prime so he should be bringing the heat now I just don’t see him surpassing Kopitar the game is more than just stats and Kopi led the league for ATOI for all forwards and is one of the best if not the best 200 ft players .

kuznetsov? the dude who just had the first 80pt season of his career, and still had less pts than tavares?

kuznetsov had a monster playoffs and deserves a lot of credit. but lets not forget he had a paltry 19g/59pts the year before in 82 games.

0.93ppg for JT. 0.78 for kuznetsov. not a chance is kuznetsov better if you take away the recency bias

 

[TMLeafs17]

FEELSGOODMAN

 

[Halla]

That would be false. Many claimed he was overrated for quite some time now. I'm not saying he is overrated, others have though.

never heard very much about tavares being overrated until july 1

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

Tavares was voted the 4th best center on these board 5 months ago.
if you redid the poll now he might finish top 10

 

[Halla]

by the way in early february this is what HF boards thought of the top C in the league

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-10th-best-centre.2445949/

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Connor McDavid
3. Evgeny Malkin
4. John Tavares
5. Patrice Bergeron
6. Steven Stamkos
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Nathan MacKinnon
9. Mark Scheifele
10. Auston Matthews

doesnt seem like he was too overrated as a member of the islanders. ppg+ guy that plays a solid 200ft game
he is gonna have a big season surrounded by guys that can play (and not being expected to carry his linemates)
worth every penny

 

[Halla]

Serious question. Who are the best players John Tavares has played with on the Islanders?

Lee,Bailey,Parenteau,Moulson,Okposo

Moulson did nothing away from JT. I doubt Lee gets anywhere close to 40 away from jt either. Bailey was a 30-35pt guy up until last year, id expect him to drop back in the 50ish range. should be interested to see if barzal can carry his linemates against the best D in the league

 

[glucker]

Man, I love this thread.

“Leafs fans think all Ontario players are coming home, so dumb. He’s not even from Toronto, he’s from Mississauga”


“Oh, JT only signed because he’s from TO. Dubas is a rookie who overpaid for him”

 

[Kamiccolo]

never heard very much about tavares being overrated until july 1

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

Tavares was voted the 4th best center on these board 5 months ago.
if you redid the poll now he might finish top 10

Who cares if he is over rated. Per this site Tavares is better than Matthews (in that thread and many before it) so that means the Leafs added basically another Matthews.. That is insane. We know how good he is so who cares where he is ranked. That is one stacks f***ing team.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

never heard very much about tavares being overrated until july 1

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

Tavares was voted the 4th best center on these board 5 months ago.
if you redid the poll now he might finish top 10

by the way in early february this is what HF boards thought of the top C in the league

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-10th-best-centre.2445949/

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Connor McDavid
3. Evgeny Malkin
4. John Tavares
5. Patrice Bergeron
6. Steven Stamkos
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Nathan MacKinnon
9. Mark Scheifele
10. Auston Matthews

doesnt seem like he was too overrated as a member of the islanders. ppg+ guy that plays a solid 200ft game
he is gonna have a big season surrounded by guys that can play (and not being expected to carry his linemates)
worth every penny

lol +1

Now please HF, stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

[TMLeafs17]

by the way in early february this is what HF boards thought of the top C in the league

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-10th-best-centre.2445949/

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Connor McDavid
3. Evgeny Malkin
4. John Tavares
5. Patrice Bergeron
6. Steven Stamkos
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Nathan MacKinnon
9. Mark Scheifele
10. Auston Matthews

doesnt seem like he was too overrated as a member of the islanders. ppg+ guy that plays a solid 200ft game
he is gonna have a big season surrounded by guys that can play (and not being expected to carry his linemates)
worth every penny

Wrecked

 

[Canada4Gold]

I’d also add Brown and Hyman.

combined possibly

 

[Orfieus]

why are people still talking about this?

 

[kylbaz]

by the way in early february this is what HF boards thought of the top C in the league

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-10th-best-centre.2445949/

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Connor McDavid
3. Evgeny Malkin
4. John Tavares
5. Patrice Bergeron
6. Steven Stamkos
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Nathan MacKinnon
9. Mark Scheifele
10. Auston Matthews

doesnt seem like he was too overrated as a member of the islanders. ppg+ guy that plays a solid 200ft game
he is gonna have a big season surrounded by guys that can play (and not being expected to carry his linemates)
worth every penny

Oh that was way back in Feb he's probably around 30-40 now!