Post-Game Talk: [TOR/CHI] Leafs lose In OT 2-1

[PromisedLand]

Clearly offside, my friend. Panarin is across the line, the puck isn't, and he is not in possession of it.

Bingo!

 

[Canada4Gold]

Goals are reviewed for the usual stuff. But do they review plays leading to the goals? It's only coaches challenges that review things like off-sides on a goal.

last minute of a game and OT the refs can review it. In these cases I think they look at it quickly in Toronto to see if anything if worth reviewing, and if it is they'll signal to the arena and that's why the horn went. The linesmen then took a look at it and made their decision.

Or something like that.

 

[Northernguy10]

It's very clear.

The rules about skates preceding the puck over the line being ok, is for players that bring the puck over the line backwards or while doing a spin-a-rama or any moves really.

As long as they have possession and control of the puck before the skates go over the line, and keep possession and control while bringing the puck over the line.

If you skate over the line, but pass the puck while it's in the neutral zone, you give up possession before it crosses. It's off-side and has always been called that.

It's only a tough call because the player was moving while he did it. Had he been standing still and made that pass, play would have been blown dead.

I agree with your reasoning. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a "thing" over the next few days or if the media/league just accept it as the 'right call'

 

[Daisy Jane]

If you don't want to make the playoffs, then you will never make the playoffs. Why wouldn't you want a young team to fight and make the playoffs every year? Anything can happen in the playoffs -- look at those years when the Sens dominated the Leafs in the regular season only to lose to us in the playoffs.

right?

 

[Pi]

Clearly offside, my friend. Panarin is across the line, the puck isn't, and he is not in possession of it.

I don't claim to know all the rules but all I know is that if the Leafs entered the zone like this and scored and it was challenged, I am 100% sure it's coming back. Anyone else agree with that ?

 

[socko]

I don't claim to know all the rules but all I know is that if the Leafs entered the zone like this and scored and it was challenged, I am 100% sure it's coming back. Anyone else agree with that ?

I would expect it to be called off because it was 100% offside. Pretty ticked they screwed us over really.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

The problem is that you are generally passing to a player ahead of you and he's the one offside. Basically Panarin can't put himself offside the unless he passes out of the zone and Hartman brings it across the line. At least this is how the rule is reading.

No, just no. that's wrong. By that logic he can gain the zone leaving the puck outside, pass it back and have free reign to roam the zone while his team maintains possession outside. They can then do this again with another player right? So now the puck is in the neutral zone, and two players are roaming the leafs zone. Not off side, of course, because they "can't put themselves offside until they pass out of the zone".

That is how the rule reads? That you can one at a time have 4 out 5 players roaming the opposition zone with the puck outside the zone and no one is off side? LOL. No. They just messed up the call, and that's it.

 

[LeafsMonster]

yah. it's called they aren't converting on their chances.

regarding shootouts:

the first chunk of games, Babcock went with those who were historically strong on the shootout for us.
they weren't scoring.

then he put kadri, marner and matthews
i think between the three of them - they have 2 goals. (one for matthews and one for marner)

then he did a mixture of marner, matthews and nylander
I think maybe Nylander has one goal.


regarding overtime:
for the first chunk of games (and I'd argue now), Babcock was making decisions that would shield the rookies from constant failing to convert on the OT.

then for the second chunk of games, Babcock started allowing the rookies to close out the last minute of games/OT.

now it's a blend of both.

they can't convert. a lot of it is just unlucky - some of is rookie error some of it is just dumb decisions, and some are bad coaching decisions. but it can't always be Babcock's fault (because quite frankly it isn't). just like it's not always Anderson's fault if we lost, or the defense fault if we blow leads. sometimes it's just that people don't score. or the other team iis better, or mistakes happen.

I agree with you about the shootouts. Thats on the players and his choices have been pretty logical, he puts the skilled ones out there and those who have a decent shootout record.

But with the ot, I don't think its just about not converting on chances. I stand by my point that he doesn't put out the best possible options to win. His combinations are pretty much the same and after a while that needs to change. 3 on 3 is where you put your best offensive players, this is the prime place to put nylander and matthews together, maybe kadri and brown/marner/jvr and bozak and brown/marner/jvr. But instead he puts people like komarov and hyman and even at one point I think hunwick and polak. That just doesn't make sense. There's too much space out there, you don't need the grinders to fish out the puck. Its speed and skill game at that point and what we put out doesn't match with the opposition as well as it could. With these combos we're already at a disadvantage going into ot. I think its safe to say that nylander, matthews, marner, kadri etc have a higher likelihood of creating and converting on quality chances than hyman, komarov, polak etc.

Just my opinion though.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Majority of the main boards thinks its offside too. Oh well.

 

[On-the-Fly]

It's very clear.

The rules about skates preceding the puck over the line being ok, is for players that bring the puck over the line backwards or while doing a spin-a-rama or any moves really.

As long as they have possession and control of the puck before the skates go over the line, and keep possession and control while bringing the puck over the line.

If you skate over the line, but pass the puck while it's in the neutral zone, you give up possession before it crosses. It's off-side and has always been called that.

It's only a tough call because the player was moving while he did it. Had he been standing still and made that pass, play would have been blown dead.

Not the rule, the action.

Its a close call. Not clear at all.

 

[hfman]

If you don't want to make the playoffs, then you will never make the playoffs. Why wouldn't you want a young team to fight and make the playoffs every year? Anything can happen in the playoffs -- look at those years when the Sens dominated the Leafs in the regular season only to lose to us in the playoffs.

That's a good point. But all that was between 13 and 17 year ago.. I can't even believe I just said that but it's true... 17 years ago? How can that be possible..

anyhow- it's not like Leafs vs. Habs would be a close match up like the Leafs vs. Sens were. The Habs are light years ahead of the Leafs and would wipe them clean in 4 straight, no questions asked. Just calling it like it is. Plus, there's this goalie named Price that they would somehow have to score at least 1 goal a game against in order to win.

Would anyone say the Leafs would beat the Pens, or the Caps in round 1? Not a single, sane soul would say that. So why would anyone think the Leafs could beat the Habs? Same scenario. They are on such different levels this year- maybe this will change in the upcoming seasons (infact, it WILL change) - but for this year - I don't want to have anything to do with them in the playoffs, because it is only going to end in humiliation - so missing this year is a perfect plan and come back storming next year. The future is still incredibly bright - the best is still coming - so I say let this season slide to avoid catastrophe - especially against Montreal (or Ottawa for that matter) - ugh

 

[deletethis]

Lowlight of the night was when HNIC showed a couple angles of Marner picking off a hard clearing shot mid-air with a fully extended stick then taking a nice shot on goal without a single mention of it from either Simpson or Hughson.

 

[zeke]

the leafs could take the habs without surprising anyone.

 

[Moorpheus*]

I'm kinda fuzzy on the exact ruling, looks close to me.

"The most important thing for us as a team is that Zack and Leo got time in OT, those are the sort of small victories that add up"

 

[Gallagbi]

No, just no. that's wrong. By that logic he can gain the zone leaving the puck outside, pass it back and have free reign to roam the zone while his team maintains possession outside. They can then do this again with another player right? So now the puck is in the neutral zone, and two players are roaming the leafs zone. Not off side, of course, because they "can't put themselves offside until they pass out of the zone".

That is how the rule reads? That you can one at a time have 4 out 5 players roaming the opposition zone with the puck outside the zone and no one is off side? LOL. No. They just messed up the call, and that's it.

No, in your scenario the player carrying the puck over the line would have possession. That'd make the first person to enter (since they're roaming while the puck is outside the line) offside.

In the actual goal, the person in possession moves the puck across the line before any teammate enters the zone.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Anyone know which is the leading edge of the blueline?

 

[AvroArrow]

Refs were garbage all night, missed calls for both teams a ridiculous amount of times. OT period was especially bad, clearly missed a too many men call, and how that wasn't offside is beyond me

 

[Warden of the North]

Refs were garbage all night, missed calls for both teams a ridiculous amount of times. OT period was especially bad, clearly missed a too many men call, and how that wasn't offside is beyond me

The egregious penalty they missed was Kadri highsticking a hawk.

 

[Thread The Needle]

Wow, this went MUCH better than I expected! I'm still terrified for Monday though.

 

[Gallagbi]

Refs were garbage all night, missed calls for both teams a ridiculous amount of times. OT period was especially bad, clearly missed a too many men call, and how that wasn't offside is beyond me

It was one of the better refereed games in recent memory.

 

[Pi]

The egregious penalty they missed was Kadri highsticking a hawk.

Too many men in OT was even worse. There are 2 refs and only 6 damn skaters on the ice. Have to get that call right. What makes the too many men even worse is that the Hawks were in our zone . How does the back ref miss that?

 

[Pi]

Wow, this went MUCH better than I expected! I'm still terrified for Monday though.

I'm not. Our speed will give Boston fits. We got this!

Also, Andersen is unbeaten against Boston IIRC.

 

[zeke]

Refs were garbage all night, missed calls for both teams a ridiculous amount of times. OT period was especially bad, clearly missed a too many men call, and how that wasn't offside is beyond me

i liked it tbh

the only call they made was when oduya took away a scoring chance.

it was playoff like.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

No, in your scenario the player carrying the puck over the line would have possession. That'd make the first person to enter (since they're roaming while the puck is outside the line) offside.

In the actual goal, the person in possession moves the puck across the line before any teammate enters the zone.

Who moves person the the puck across the line is irrelevant to the rule. All that the rule specifies is that he was in possession of the puck when his skates crossed the line.

I was incredulous that it could possibly be onside and said it's incorrect. I made up a stupid situation so show how ridiculous it is that it could be offside. Buuuuut. Technically, after reading through the rule several times my example to show just how ridiculous the scenario is... well, actually, it is entirely within the rules.

The key part of the rule that could overthrow that goofy situation is that the question of offside isn't posed until the puck crosses the line...

However, when that question occurs technically multiple players can be in the opposition zone, so long as they were in possession of puck when their skates crossed. Pretty ridiculous... but that is actually the way the rule reads.

 

[AvroArrow]

It was one of the better refereed games in recent memory.

This has to be sarcasm ? 1 penalty called all game.

Missed Kadri highsticking the hawks player
Missed Boyle holding Toews
Missed that too many men call the entire stadium saw in OT

Horrible OT goal "review" even by the rules the NHL/Announcers stated, that play is offside all the way. The player "carrying" the puck did not possess the puck while entering the zone and passed it instead, that's offside.

I'm sure there was probably 1-2 more missed calls i can't recall