Confirmed with Link: [TOR/CAR] Marleau, Top 10 Protected 2020 1st & 2020 7th to CAR for 2020 6th Rounder || Part II

[93WrapAround]

I agree it's not a smart thing to do, just as it's not smart to say you would never do something that you've in fact, already done.

This was post #22 in a thread titled "2019-2020 Salary Cap Crunch"

Damn. At least it's only Monday, plenty of time for ACC to right the ship

 

[MLSE]

The teams structure and development are out of whack right now. Guys are too far away and the timing to contend is now with JT in prime. Guys are getting paid and the D is getting worse.

Exactly why you have to keep the parts that help you win now.

Marleau has to go, its either picks or a solid roster player that goes with him.

 

[93WrapAround]

You've also been touting that there's no chance he leaves for almost 12 months.

I've been saying this was the only logical outcome only to have folks argue me on it for almost 2 years including more then 1 idiot on my blocked list who now look not only condescending and pretentious but also wrong.

I wasn't apart of any of these discussions, but can you enlighten me how it would have been logical for the Leafs to sign him to a 3-year deal knowing that if after 2 years they wanted out he would wave his NMC and we could ship him out at an exorbitant cost? I guess I don't get how much sweeter that would make the deal for Toronto - we basically got 1 productive year of 3 from him and had to give up a 1st round pick to get out after 2. I think it was just a brutal gamble by Lou and he probably figured he wouldn't be around too long anyway possibly reducing the risk for himself.

 

[Mess]

Couldn't the positive players you keep ala Kapanen and AJ be worth more than Marleau and a 1st?

It all depends how you look at it but you do realize you add assets like picks if you deal your positive players but in turn you KEEP Marleau and LOSE positive players.

You can paint pictures to keep your narrative going but the math still adds up the same no matter how you slice the perspective.

I suppose the answer to what is the best use of a 1st round pick to improve your team lies in the results of next year.

If we're sitting here a year from now and Leafs are a non playoff team and Carolina are picking in our spot than the sacrifice will be worthless. Could have kept Marleau and the pick and been better off.

However if the Leafs use that cap space wisely and go on a deep playoff run than keeping the team together at the cost of a 1st round pick will have paid off as desired and the ends justifies the means of the sacrifice.

 

[thewave]

Exactly why you have to keep the parts that help you win now.

Marleau has to go, its either picks or a solid roster player that goes with him.

He was a fine 3rd like winger. He was used wrong but defensively he was not the problem. At the same time our D is about to get destroyed and double so come Muzzin and his departure. Another rental, we need a retool, he doesn't seem to want that but it's the correct play. We need some picks back, we need some solid deals for free, Simmonds or whomever and Jake G back as well.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I wasn't apart of any of these discussions, but can you enlighten me how it would have been logical for the Leafs to sign him to a 3-year deal knowing that if after 2 years they wanted out he would wave his NMC and we could ship him out at an exorbitant cost? I guess I don't get how much sweeter that would make the deal for Toronto - we basically got 1 productive year of 3 from him and had to give up a 1st round pick to get out after 2. I think it was just a brutal gamble by Lou and he probably figured he wouldn't be around too long anyway possibly reducing the risk for himself.

The cost wasn't and couldn't have been known.

The "waive NMC after year 2" to be bought out elsewhere is a possibility people have been touting while it was instantly shot down by so many despite it being a logical out to a cap issue as it has been for others.

If he actually ever re-signed here for like $1 mil if something in SJ happened to not go sideways there would be a whole other crow for people to eat on this topic.

But make no mistake...him not being a factor in year 3....was something we've been working towards since he signed the deal which is why he waived to go to Carolina as he knows it gets him back on the free agent market.

 

[Mess]

Yeah, didn't think there was much of a chance.
I wonder if the outcome would have been the same had he played a little better last year?

His family wanting to go home to California after 2 seasons certainly wasn't factored into the original position. While uprooting his family and moving them here to TO had to be a big part of the 3 year contract otherwise it wouldn't have been worth leaving SJ.

Truth be told Marleau is being a real classy guy here, by allowing the Leafs with a full NMC to deal him to Carolina as that is no closer to his family than Toronto is, and he is making a personal sacrifice that is not in his best interest, but for the sake of the Leafs benefit. .

Its that type of character that likely was a main reason in bringing him to Toronto in the first place to mentor the younger players and help in their development. Matthews and Marner certainly hold him in high esteem and consider themselves part of his extended family.

 

[ULF_55]

Kapanen and Johnsson or Marleau

Pretty simple to me.

Same way when it comes to a 29 year old or a 23 year old on a team not ready to compete for the Cup yet?

 

[Joey Hoser]

He was a fine 3rd like winger. He was used wrong but defensively he was not the problem. At the same time our D is about to get destroyed and double so come Muzzin and his departure. Another rental, we need a retool, he doesn't seem to want that but it's the correct play. We need some picks back, we need some solid deals for free, Simmonds or whomever and Jake G back as well.

Retool and trade for picks.

Man, I can't beleive you are for real. I recall you being a reasonable poster over the years, I don't get what happened.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Damn. At least it's only Monday, plenty of time for ACC to right the ship

For sure. I mean STL was in last place in early January and look at them now.

His family wanting to go home to California after 2 seasons certainly wasn't factored into the original position. While uprooting his family and moving them here to TO had to be a big part of the 3 year contract otherwise it wouldn't have been worth leaving SJ.

Truth be told Marleau is being a real classy guy here, by allowing the Leafs with a full NMC to deal him to Carolina as that is no closer to his family than Toronto is, and he is making a personal sacrifice that is not in his best interest, but for the sake of the Leafs benefit. .

Its that type of character that likely was a main reason in bringing him to Toronto in the first place to mentor the younger players and help in their development. Matthews and Marner certainly hold him in high esteem and consider themselves part of his extended family.

LMAO Mess. Here's another scenario.

Mercenary Marleau turned his back on his teammates and moved his family from one end of the continent to the other for one reason only, the almighty dollar as he didn't have enough millions already. As part of the deal, he agreed that if after two years his value had plummeted, he would agree to let the Leafs trade him. He ends up either going back to home or retiring, either way he collects more money than anyone else was willing to pay him for two seasons of work.

And you're still going on about "personal sacrifice" for the Leafs benefit. Incredible, I don't know what else to say.

 

[Jozay]

I suppose the answer to what is the best use of a 1st round pick to improve your team lies in the results of next year.

If we're sitting here a year from now and Leafs are a non playoff team and Carolina are picking in our spot than the sacrifice will be worthless. Could have kept Marleau and the pick and been better off.

However if the Leafs use that cap space wisely and go on a deep playoff run than keeping the team together at the cost of a 1st round pick will have paid off as desired and the ends justifies the means of the sacrifice.

They already used the cap space to sign Kapanen and Johnsson.

Pretty sure using the pick was worth it.

 

[ottomaddox]

I have been pretty critical of Dubas so far.

If he rights this ship I'll be happy to admit that I was wrong.

 

[Menzinger]

His family wanting to go home to California after 2 seasons certainly wasn't factored into the original position. While uprooting his family and moving them here to TO had to be a big part of the 3 year contract otherwise it wouldn't have been worth leaving SJ.

Truth be told Marleau is being a real classy guy here, by allowing the Leafs with a full NMC to deal him to Carolina as that is no closer to his family than Toronto is, and he is making a personal sacrifice that is not in his best interest, but for the sake of the Leafs benefit. .

Its that type of character that likely was a main reason in bringing him to Toronto in the first place to mentor the younger players and help in their development. Matthews and Marner certainly hold him in high esteem and consider themselves part of his extended family.

Moving his family for 24 months for the mere reward of 18 million dollars. What a beauty.

 

[thewave]

Moving his family for 24 months for the mere reward of 18 million dollars. What a beauty.

The sacrifice, lol

 

[Mess]

They already used the cap space to sign Kapanen and Johnsson.

Pretty sure using the pick was worth it.

Pretty sure that wasn't my point, but rather the results of the team next year will determine if it was worth it. The goal is not to get players signed and declare victory, its to win games, and buying cap space for 1st round pick is a costly way to do business.

AJ and Kapanan were already members of last years team that lost in the 1st round, hopefully we didn't spend a 1st for the same results or worse. If Leafs miss the playoffs and Carolina picks on our draft spot are you still going to say the pick was worth it?

I'm personally hoping that this was just part A of a bigger deal still not completed with the Canes that still might see AJ/Kapanen or somebody ending up in Carolina, and one of Canes RDH ending up on Leafs defense next year. Marleau and 1st is just the appetizer and the meal is still to come once the Marner situation is resolved.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Moving his family for 24 months for the mere reward of 18 million dollars. What a beauty.

To be fair, SJ would have paid him for two years so whatever they were offering he would have got by staying put. So really, he moved his family for 24 months for "only" 6 million or whatever. But yeah.

 

[Mess]

To be fair, SJ would have paid him for two years so whatever they were offering he would have got by staying put. So really, he moved his family for 24 months for "only" 6 million or whatever. But yeah.

& be resigning on a 1 year deal for this season thereafter, as he still might end up thereafter his buyout anyways.

People think an 18 year vet with the same team and a young family entrenched in their community with young school kids and friends and family just pick up easily and move to another country on a whim. Clearly since his wife and kids moved back home already that the move is something they already regret and likely wish they hadn't made that sacrifice as it didn't work out, even for Marleau who was chasing a Cup and ended up with 2 straight 1st round losses for his troubles also.

 

[Gary Nylund]

& be resigning on a 1 year deal for this season thereafter, as he still might end up thereafter his buyout anyways.

People think an 18 year vet with the same team and a young family entrenched in their community with young school kids and friends and family just pick up easily and move to another country on a whim. Clearly since his wife and kids moved back home already that the move is something they already regret and likely wish they hadn't made that sacrifice as it didn't work out, even for Marleau who was chasing a Cup and ended up with 2 straight 1st round losses for his troubles also.

Gimme a break Mess, seriously.

1)
They didn't move on a whim, they did it for millions of dollars.

2)
It worked out perfectly - he got paid.

3)
Sacrifice - that's a ridiculous word to use considering he got paid millions.

4)
He wasn't chasing a cup, he was chasing the money. If he was chasing the cup he would have stayed put as SJ had the better team. That anyone could still believe that he came here chasing the cup is honestly, completely mind boggling.

 

[Jozay]

Pretty sure that wasn't my point, but rather the results of the team next year will determine if it was worth it. The goal is not to get players signed and declare victory, its to win games, and buying cap space for 1st round pick is a costly way to do business.

AJ and Kapanan were already members of last years team that lost in the 1st round, hopefully we didn't spend a 1st for the same results or worse. If Leafs miss the playoffs and Carolina picks on our draft spot are you still going to say the pick was worth it?

I'm personally hoping that this was just part A of a bigger deal still not completed with the Canes that still might see AJ/Kapanen or somebody ending up in Carolina, and one of Canes RDH ending up on Leafs defense next year. Marleau and 1st is just the appetizer and the meal is still to come once the Marner situation is resolved.

Well you did say "However if the Leafs use that cap space wisely". I just pointed out how they used that cap space.

The goal is to get players signed that you think will help the team win games. I would assume everyone thinks Kapanen and Johnsson can help do that. The fact of the matter is that Kapanen and Johnsson are promising young players. Getting to keep both of them (and potentially trading one later to get a dman) is better than losing one, keeping Marleau, and having a magic bean.

A season could go wrong for a multitude of reasons. Kapanen and Johnsson could both have great years and we if we missed would you say the cap space was spent wrongly? Probably not. Odds are, if the Leafs miss the playoffs next year, its not going to fall on the shoulders of guys like Kapanen and Johnsson but on guys like Matthews, Tavares, Andersen etc.

And im with you, I thought for sure 1 of them would be gone for a dman. But even in that scenario, the Leafs still needed to clear salary unless that dman was playing for free.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He wasn't chasing a cup, he was chasing the money. If he was chasing the cup he would have stayed put as SJ had the better team. That anyone could still believe that he came here chasing the cup is honestly, completely mind boggling.

Well, at the time it wasn't that crazy. San Jose had been reliably unable to get over the hump for a decade. They were getting pretty old, and did not yet have Karlsson.

 

[deletethis]

Moving his family for 24 months for the mere reward of 18 million dollars. What a beauty.

Why always so negative?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well, at the time it wasn't that crazy. San Jose had been reliably unable to get over the hump for a decade. They were getting pretty old, and did not yet have Karlsson.

SJ had the better record and their veterans weren't quite dead yet. You could argue about which team had a better chance of winning the cup but for the next season or two, it would have been hard to argue that the Leafs were among the front runners, even if you think their chances were better than SJ's.

If he really wanted a cup, he could have chosen a better team and settled for less money. Instead, he just happened to pick the only team in the NHL that was willing to guarantee him 3 years of pay.

 

[Menzinger]

Why always so negative?

My personality lol.

I've got no issue with Marleau the man, seems like a good dude. But imo was fairly obvious why he came to the Leafs. Hes certainly no hero for agreeing to waive his NMC for a handful of teams

 

[Its not your fault]

Gimme a break Mess, seriously.

1)
They didn't move on a whim, they did it for millions of dollars.

2)
It worked out perfectly - he got paid.

3)
Sacrifice - that's a ridiculous word to use considering he got paid millions.

4)
He wasn't chasing a cup, he was chasing the money. If he was chasing the cup he would have stayed put as SJ had the better team. That anyone could still believe that he came here chasing the cup is honestly, completely mind boggling.

I believe he also had more confidentence in his abilities lasting 3 years. Leafs where rated pretty high by Vegas after his signing. I think it's not that out there when he seen our lineup. He played against our team if anyone knows it we are a good team or not is our competitors. Not fair weather fans.

 

[deletethis]

My personality lol.

I've got no issue with Marleau the man, seems like a good dude. But imo was fairly obvious why he came to the Leafs. Hes certainly no hero for agreeing to waive his NMC for a handful of teams

I remember a decade ago when several lameduck Leafs didn't work with the GM in this behalf. It's better than the alternative of Marleau refusing anything other than a buyout by the Leafs and costing the Leafs at least Kapanen and Johnsson if not more. I think it means he cares a tiny bit more about his old team and teammates than those Leafs of Muskoka.