Prospect Info: Top Shelf Prospects: Winnipeg Jets
- Thread starter LastWordArmy
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truck
Registered User
I have never seen skating or balance listed as strengths of Scheifele's game before...
I really hope he can make the cut this year. Kane-Olli-Gooch makes me nervous.
I really hope he can make the cut this year. Kane-Olli-Gooch makes me nervous.
His skating is good enough for the NHL now, but I definitely agree that strength on his skates is an area that needs to improve.
If he can put the points up, I'd be ok with #hartnelldown2.0 though.
scelaton
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2012
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Interesting, neither have I. Overall, he was really high on Scheifele and clearly sees him as more NHL-ready than Trouba. I think he might be right, though Trouba may have a higher ceiling.
Ahhh, there's nothing better than being on vacation, sun shining, water glimmering and reading about how your team's best prospects are on the threshold, with plenty more on the way...
Guerzy
I'm a fricken baby
- Jan 16, 2005
- 39,854
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I agree with scelaton, too. Which leads me to think, a year or two ago, we could not have these thoughts.
... Yet, some fans still say "we should have made trades!". Ok, how? and with what? Draft picks? not an option, in my opinion. Prospects? ok, who? NHL roster players? uuuh, slim pickings there. Unless of course we dealt Enstrom, Byfuglien, Wheeler, Little, etc... just doesn't make sense to me given these players have been long-observed within the last 2 seasons so Chevy could decide whether or not to go long-term with them or not, which he chose to and they are now locked up. We've identified our direction for better or worse, time to see it's true colors.
Now, I see us in a solid position with a leg or two to stand on. We've got 3 recent first round picks (Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey) with two of those picks knocking on the NHL door and will turn pro. Morrissey likely 2-3 years away, which is still great as it keeps the wheels turning of players coming into the organization/turning pro (AHL).
Not only that, but to me the clock in this process is now ticking, expectations are here and they must be met with results. If not, Noel and his lame-duck extension will in all likelihood be out the door, and this roster is 100% kept in tact/built upon by the present GM, Kevin Cheveldayoff. If things go south, it's on his shoulders to fix as it's been his decision to keep what he has and add what he has.
We're now in position if we do well this season to perhaps trade next years 1st round pick, given we've got some prospects in the system and knocking the door. We've now maybe got a prospect or two if push came to shove we could deal. Perhaps if things go well we can make our "Mike Richards-like trade", or "Jeff Carter like-trade", for example.
All things we haven't had over the last 2 seasons. Things are really beginning to take shape for this organization, as far as I am concerned. Some still have a difficult time seeing that, I think. I just don't see the point is putting so much time into "what you think could have been" in terms of roster moves. I just don't see it as overly possible to have made big changes over the last two years unless TNSE and Chevy had zero faith in this core, which, by all indications isn't the case so buckle up.
This all is just another mans opinion, however.
I agree with scelaton, too. Which leads me to think, a year or two ago, we could not have these thoughts.
... Yet, some fans still say "we should have made trades!". Ok, how? and with what? Draft picks? not an option, in my opinion. Prospects? ok, who? NHL roster players? uuuh, slim pickings there. Unless of course we dealt Enstrom, Byfuglien, Wheeler, Little, etc... just doesn't make sense to me given these players have been long-observed within the last 2 seasons so Chevy could decide whether or not to go long-term with them or not, which he chose to and they are now locked up. We've identified our direction for better or worse, time to see it's true colors.
Now, I see us in a solid position with a leg or two to stand on. We've got 3 recent first round picks (Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey) with two of those picks knocking on the NHL door and will turn pro. Morrissey likely 2-3 years away, which is still great as it keeps the wheels turning of players coming into the organization/turning pro (AHL).
Not only that, but to me the clock in this process is now ticking, expectations are here and they must be met with results. If not, Noel and his lame-duck extension will in all likelihood be out the door, and this roster is 100% kept in tact/built upon by the present GM, Kevin Cheveldayoff. If things go south, it's on his shoulders to fix as it's been his decision to keep what he has and add what he has.
We're now in position if we do well this season to perhaps trade next years 1st round pick, given we've got some prospects in the system and knocking the door. We've now maybe got a prospect or two if push came to shove we could deal. Perhaps if things go well we can make our "Mike Richards-like trade", or "Jeff Carter like-trade", for example.
All things we haven't had over the last 2 seasons. Things are really beginning to take shape for this organization, as far as I am concerned. Some still have a difficult time seeing that, I think. I just don't see the point is putting so much time into "what you think could have been" in terms of roster moves. I just don't see it as overly possible to have made big changes over the last two years unless TNSE and Chevy had zero faith in this core, which, by all indications isn't the case so buckle up.
This all is just another mans opinion, however.
I agree with you too, Guerzy.
. I also think that with the right one or two additions at center (hoping for Scheifele to be a solid #2/#3 center, but is that enough) and another top 4 dman (hoping for Trouba), this team is very close to being a solid playoff team. Likely too much to ask from 2 young players.
Still have questions about Buff (style/long-term fitness), Toby (health), and Pavy (game), but the team is definitely in better shape now than when it first got to Winnipeg.
Another year of patience may be needed, though substituting ROR for Olli sure appeals to me. If you have to use a pick, Postma and ? to get him, I'd do it.
Guerzy
I'm a fricken baby
- Jan 16, 2005
- 39,854
- 3,121
Agree, Bob, still plenty of question marks and lots will have to go right in order to succeed. I am looking forward to it, mostly because we're at a point in the "process" with TNSE, Chevy, Noel, where expectations must meet results. If they don't? Like I said, Noel and his lame-duck extension are likely out the door, Chevy will need to fix what he has put in place, etc.
sully1410
#EggosForEleven
I agree with scelaton, too. Which leads me to think, a year or two ago, we could not have these thoughts.
... Yet, some fans still say "we should have made trades!". Ok, how? and with what? Draft picks? not an option, in my opinion. Prospects? ok, who? NHL roster players? uuuh, slim pickings there. Unless of course we dealt Enstrom, Byfuglien, Wheeler, Little, etc... just doesn't make sense to me given these players have been long-observed within the last 2 seasons so Chevy could decide whether or not to go long-term with them or not, which he chose to and they are now locked up. We've identified our direction for better or worse, time to see it's true colors.
Now, I see us in a solid position with a leg or two to stand on. We've got 3 recent first round picks (Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey) with two of those picks knocking on the NHL door and will turn pro. Morrissey likely 2-3 years away, which is still great as it keeps the wheels turning of players coming into the organization/turning pro (AHL).
Not only that, but to me the clock in this process is now ticking, expectations are here and they must be met with results. If not, Noel and his lame-duck extension will in all likelihood be out the door, and this roster is 100% kept in tact/built upon by the present GM, Kevin Cheveldayoff. If things go south, it's on his shoulders to fix as it's been his decision to keep what he has and add what he has.
We're now in position if we do well this season to perhaps trade next years 1st round pick, given we've got some prospects in the system and knocking the door. We've now maybe got a prospect or two if push came to shove we could deal. Perhaps if things go well we can make our "Mike Richards-like trade", or "Jeff Carter like-trade", for example.
All things we haven't had over the last 2 seasons. Things are really beginning to take shape for this organization, as far as I am concerned. Some still have a difficult time seeing that, I think. I just don't see the point is putting so much time into "what you think could have been" in terms of roster moves. I just don't see it as overly possible to have made big changes over the last two years unless TNSE and Chevy had zero faith in this core, which, by all indications isn't the case so buckle up.
This all is just another mans opinion, however.
ok Peter Warren lol.
I agree though. 100%. i like the way chevy has done this and am excited to see how the team preforms this upcoming season.
truck
Registered User
I agree... but if the problems are bigger than the coach... we may be in for a long wait. That part makes me nervous.
sully1410
#EggosForEleven
I don't really think thats the case. I think the team itself has definitely taken steps forward in terms of functioning as a team and dropping that losing culture. However, i do think a large part of the problem is some of noel's choices. It was obvious that the PP was a bit flat this year(understatement of the season?) and there is no reason that the coaching staff couldn't have sat down to figure out new strategies. there's the excuse that I've heard before about lack of practice, but I don't buy that either. these guys are pro's, so I don't think need hours upon hours of practice at the rink for days on end to figure out a new approach.
Our PK was also an issue, and it totally turned a corner and we went a whole **** load of pk's without allowing a goal and even got a few ourselves. So to say that they couldn't have done it...is pretty far off base.
I get that we don't have the offensive prowess of the TBL or Pitts or w/e, but we still have the players to be very effective with the man advantage.
i also think Noel made some pretty questionable decisions in terms of lines. it was obvious that Jokinen was not good with Kane and Mittens should have been the spare forward. Not in the top six. I think if Noel looked closer at the situation and the results....we could have made the playoffs as we would not be relying on one line our top D which wasn't there a whole bunch and Kane to get goals.
On top of that, Pavs needs to figure his **** out or we need a new goalie.
I hope we can turn a corner next year.
Guerzy
I'm a fricken baby
- Jan 16, 2005
- 39,854
- 3,121
Certainly agree. I think most will agree Noel (as the head coach) would be the first big chip to fall, next it would in Chevy's hands to fix whatever appears broken. Again, this is what I finally love about where this team is at. All things considered, there is pressure on everyone right from Chevy, Noel, the players, etc. and if we don't meet expectations (which I personally view as the playoffs), it's likely we see changes in certain areas as a result.
Unless of course there is damn good reason that this team doesn't take the step forward this season. Better be a good reason, though.
truck
Registered User
What I mean is...
LLW are getting older and potentially have already maxed out. They are all good players, but I don't see them as carriers of the mail when the Jets eventually contend.
The Jets need a few more impact players - and by impact players I mean legit 1st line talents.
Kane should be able to get there, but the centre position is a real question mark going forward. Can Scheifele be a #1 in the mold of a Toews, Kopitar or Bergeron? If not, the search continues and that kind of search can take a while.
There is a lot riding on the development of Mark Scheifele.
Agreed! Good thing he has the drive and character to match his talent level.
My biggest question mark is goaltending, if we could get a upper echelon starter it would solve a lot of problems.
Exactly.
A lot riding on Trouba, too imo, as I don't think they feel they have 4 'top 4' dmen, at the moment. But they likely hope Trouba can get there, fairly quickly. But they may have 3 legit top pairing dmen, in their top 4, so can get by with someone not quite of that caliber (Clitsome).
Center is still a position of question, no doubt. Even with 50+ pts from Little, and an emerging Scheifele, there is still a need until another prospect pushes for a spot.
puck stoppa
Registered User
Agreed, surixon.
I think Pavs can be a bit better than he has been, but that still may not be enough for a legit cup run. If he can repeat his stats from his last year in Atlanta, Jets might be a playoff team. But, I'm not sure he can crank it up to be a difference maker in the playoffs like a Quick, Rask, or Crawford.
There may be guys coming down the pipeline, but they are years and years away.
Absolutely, puck stoppa.
I'm sure that was at least part of the reason why Lowry was moved to C and will play and develop there in St John's.
I still like him on the wing, developing his game as a hybrid of Ladd and Kane (more so Ladd), by going hard to the net with the puck. I'm more of a traditionalist and prefer when the C is the puck distributor on a line, especially in the offensive zone, and I'm just not sure that's the best use of Lowry's talents.
Demanding 'results' this year is irresponsible and short sighted. It may be that only Schiefle is ready to make an impact. That may not be enough to make the playoffs in a tough conference. That is not a failure or tragedy by any means. It's the years after where talent will start to more steadily mature onto the roster, if you will.
I see it shaking down like this:
jets year 3:
Schiefle
jets year 4:
O'dell
Trouba
Lowry
Lipon
jets year 5:
Morrisey
Burmistrov ( he will give the jets another shot, especially after a breather in his home country)
Petan
One also has to factor in what is returned from a trade of either Byfuglien, Postma, and/or Redmond. Bogo and Trouba will be the right side of the jets defence at this time.
When I think of teams that have developed slowly into elite teams through the draft I think of St.Louis and LA. They both went five years without making the playoffs. The Jets probably have to miss one more year before enough draft picks mature. This is perfectly normal. Fans screaming for playoffs this year are largely ignorant.
I see it shaking down like this:
jets year 3:
Schiefle
jets year 4:
O'dell
Trouba
Lowry
Lipon
jets year 5:
Morrisey
Burmistrov ( he will give the jets another shot, especially after a breather in his home country)
Petan
One also has to factor in what is returned from a trade of either Byfuglien, Postma, and/or Redmond. Bogo and Trouba will be the right side of the jets defence at this time.
When I think of teams that have developed slowly into elite teams through the draft I think of St.Louis and LA. They both went five years without making the playoffs. The Jets probably have to miss one more year before enough draft picks mature. This is perfectly normal. Fans screaming for playoffs this year are largely ignorant.
I wouldn't suggest calling those ignorant because they've taken the time to do an indepth look of playoff succes/rebuild cycles and have determined that this franchise has actually missed the playoffs 6 years in a row. You don't get to restart the team because it moved, those initial draft picks, prospects, and pieces, that were moved to acquire the core now, started 6 years ago. That puts us already a year behind both of the aformentioned teams.
You can call those of us calling for the playoffs, narrow minded, overly critical, or too reliant on past patterns- but ignorant, we are not. at least most of us.
Well maybe ignorant is too harsh, but I can't count the atlanta years when prospects were badly rushed and upon arrival the prospect pool was among the worst in the league. These were huge mistakes that needed time to fix. The lockout and missing a full training camp hurt significantly as well. I think those factors are often overlooked.
Jets 2.0 rebuild I think started when Chipman sat down with Ladd and he laid out the plan....and Ladd was impressed enough to start contacting teammates saying boys...we got something here.
agree to disagree. I refuse to reset the clock to "atone' for bad mistakes, regardless of who made them.
especially when two very VERY key pieces of this team and "rebuild" were acquired in those years. It also elliminates the ability to accurately compare to LA/St Louis.
Why did they not get a 2-3 year "by" to make up for the mistakes of previous regime?
that's my issue, you can't have it both ways. Either we're hoping to follow the LAK St louis rebuild model and are failing at it (a year behind schedule already, not major, but why we need to make the playoffs now), or we're succeeding at doing it differently and comparing the two scenarios serves no purpose what so ever.
It is way too premature to say our drafting is 'failing'. The plan resets itself due to a new coach and GM when the team arrived here. That is a very reasonable assessment. When those young guys graduate and Chevy makes the right trade to balance the defense, I think we might start looking alot like a Saint Louis.
that's not what i meant. I am in no ways faulting the current groups drafting.
Just saying "st louis and la were out for five years and are now very good, we're going to be like them" would be nice, but why do you get to reset the clock? Why didn't LA get to reset the clock? because the situation wasn't analogous, so trying to tie the two together is pointless and achieves nothing.
THere are trends, that show when a team bottomes out with a top 5 pick, it needs to get into the playoffs within a certain time frame. Our top 5 picks were Kane and Bogo, and it's already been to long based on those trends for this team to catapult itself into relevancy anytime soon. ALl i'm saying is, if you want to point to the success of thsoe teams, then you have to admit this team has failed at doing that already.
That's not the fault of the current management core, but the fact remains this team isn't in the position to grab super star talent anymore (Ie top 5 picks) to jumpstart that cycle. It wasn' int hat position when the team got here in year one. If it had, you'd have a completely valid point of saying "hey we're rebuilding, we've got five years before we have to make it to the show". The point is, five years has come and gone. WE're trending closer to the calgary flames and minnesota wild and columbus bluejackets then st louis or LA. That's not to say we can't right the ship (and i'd agree that we've started), but it does show that the timeline is off.
the entire core of Ladd lWheeler Buff and Enstrom will be well past their prime by the time were legitimately competing for a cup if we aren't talking a playoffs or bust approach this year (note, i'm not saying selling the farm, but if this cores gonna go far it needs to start now).
, that can be fine, if your intent on building a pereniall champ a-la detroit, but there's only one detroit (a testimate to how difficult it is) so that might be setting the sights too high. I can agree that its allright if we get in and hang around and then push with a new core later, but my point is that this core is essentially out of "rebuild time".
Evander Kane and sach bogosian weren't drafted in 2011 and 2012, arbitrarily acting like they did doesn't get you anywhere.
The simple logistics of a salary cap system, an entry draft, and the time of players peak performance leads to a fairly repetitive cycle in what "types" of teams go deep. A timeline is becoming predictable, and currently, we aren't on it.
That's not a dig on this organization, it's an objective look at what types of teams succeed and understanding their rebuild/push cycles. Maybe we're the exception that breaks the mold, but i always prefer the safe bet to the exception.
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