Top 5 (22 and under): NJD vs MTL vs DET vs OTT vs BUF vs ANA

[Jersey Fresh]

No come back yet again, except for the usual name calling we expect. Just can’t admit you were wrong last year.

Don't get all whiny now, you're the one that made the ancillary playoff barb. Just picking up what you're putting down.

The entire crux of the Sens contingent here hinges on matching linear production. Stutzle matched the '21-'22 Hughes season, now he has to match this season, otherwise, he can win a "matched Jack Hughes age 20 season banner" in his bedroom and we can shelve the rest of the comparison. Because it will have been useless. That's why it was dumb last year, and it's dumb now. Like I said, happy to repeat it for you.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Don't get all whiny now, you're the one that made the ancillary playoff barb. Just picking up what you're putting down.

The entire crux of the Sens contingent here hinges on matching linear production. Stutzle matched the '21-'22 Hughes season, now he has to match this season, otherwise, he can win a "matched Jack Hughes age 20 season banner" in his bedroom and we can shelve the rest of the comparison. Because it will have been useless. That's why it was dumb last year, and it's dumb now. Like I said, happy to repeat it for you.

Haha

 

[HockeyWooot]

I think top 3 or 4 is a better measure, 5th person is either a meh prospect or far out in terms of development.

I rank them in the following tiers. Hard to rank some teams are quite close.

BUF- Dahlin, Cozens, Power, Quinn
OTT- Stuetzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto
NJD- Hughes, Mercer, Hughes, Nemec

MTL- Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky
ANA- Zegras, McTavish, Drysdale, Zelleweger
DET- Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Berggren

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think top 3 or 4 is a better measure, 5th person is either a meh prospect or far out in terms of development.

I rank them in the following tiers. Hard to rank some teams are quite close.

BUF- Dahlin, Cozens, Power, Quinn
OTT- Stuetzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto
NJD- Hughes, Mercer, Hughes, Nemec

MTL- Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky
ANA- Zegras, McTavish, Drysdale, Zelleweger
DET- Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Berggren

Thread is a bit old but if we're following the premise it started with, Dahlin/Tkachuk/Suzuki are all aged out. I think that easily catapults NJD to the top (if they weren't already).

 

[dirtydanglez]

Goalposts moving again lol, never change.

you're completely missing the point. if you're going to say that stutzle is as good or better than hughes than he has to be able to match or beat what hughes has done. so every time hughes ups the bar, stutzle has to at least match.

 

[NyQuil]

you're completely missing the point.

Er, no. You just joined the thread and have no idea what is going on.

if you're going to say that stutzle is as good or better than hughes than he has to be able to match or beat what hughes has done. so every time hughes ups the bar, stutzle has to at least match.

That's exactly what we're saying.

Here's a selection of quotes from this very thread:

What I’m saying is that based off what they’ve shown so far they are in two completely different leagues.

Stutzle is already very good and will likely be a star, but c'mon, Hughes had only 2 fewer points (and more goals!) in 30 fewer games. Hughes is objectively the superior player by a country mile, and he's only 8 months older than Stutzle is.

It's really not close, like at all. Again, no disrespect to Stutzle, but Jack Hughes is special and will be entering top-10 NHL forward territory as soon as next season.

I get it, Stutzle is a good young player but this is silly. Hughes's points per game was closer to Auston Matthews than it was to Tim Stutzle. Hughes is in a completely different stratosphere.

It would be comparable to Devils fans trying to say that Luke Hughes might be as good as Cale Makar. Like, c'mon. Go ahead, be excited for your guy, but this is not the hill for you to die on.

Whenever this comes up everyone posts the first two year comparison, but then ignores the contextual elements like Hughes having a child’s body and being literally the first player to go directly to the NHL from the USNTDP, while also refusing to stake a claim for Stutzle putting up 1.14ppg like Hughes did last season.

Head to Head Comparison:

Hughes D+1: 61GP 7G 14A 21PTS -26 (0.34 PPG)
Stutzle D+1: 53GP 12G 17A 29PTS -18 (0.55 PPG)

Hughes D+2: 56GP 11G 20A 31PTS -3 (0.55 PPG)
Stutzle D+2: 79GP 22G 36A 58PTS -27 (0.73 PPG)

Hughes D+3: 49GP 26G 30A 56PTS -16 (1.14 PPG)
Stutzle D+3: 78GP 39G 51A 90PTS -3 (1.15 PPG)

Hughes D+4: 78GP 43G 56A 99PTS +10 (1.27 PPG)
Stutzle D+4: ?

I don't even care if people say Jack Hughes is a better player, he probably is.

But to say that there is a "universe" separating them is absurd, given their developmental arcs.

The challenge for Stutzle to meet Hughes 1.14 PPG season this year was met and exceeded, to the obvious surprise of some posters in this thread.

We'll see what next season offers.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Er, no. You just joined the thread and have no idea what is going on.



That's exactly what we're saying.

Here's a selection of quotes from this very thread:









Head to Head Comparison:

Hughes D+1: 61GP 7G 14A 21PTS -26 (0.34 PPG)
Stutzle D+1: 53GP 12G 17A 29PTS -18 (0.55 PPG)

Hughes D+2: 56GP 11G 20A 31PTS -3 (0.55 PPG)
Stutzle D+2: 79GP 22G 36A 58PTS -27 (0.73 PPG)

Hughes D+3: 49GP 26G 30A 56PTS -16 (1.14 PPG)
Stutzle D+3: 78GP 39G 51A 90PTS -3 (1.15 PPG)

Hughes D+4: 78GP 43G 56A 99PTS +10 (1.27 PPG)
Stutzle D+4: ?

I don't even care if people say Jack Hughes is a better player, he probably is.

But to say that there is a "universe" separating them is absurd, given their developmental arcs.

The challenge for Stutzle to meet Hughes 1.14 PPG season this year was met and exceeded, to the obvious surprise of some posters in this thread.

We'll see what next season offers.

you missed the point again.

its not 'moving the goalposts' to say that if stutzle is as good as or better than hughes he should match hughes production. so next year you should expect to see aprox 100 points from stutzle. jack raised the bar so stutzle has to match.

 

[NyQuil]

you missed the point again.

its not 'moving the goalposts' to say that if stutzle is as good as or better than hughes he should match hughes production. so next year you should expect to see aprox 100 points from stutzle. jack raised the bar so stutzle has to match.

It’s moving to goalposts to say that Stutzle has to hit 1.14 in his D+3 season to show that he is marching Hughes’ production arc and then when he does it, pretend that it never happened.

With six games to go, they were crowing about the fact that he was short by 0.05 points per game.

 

[dirtydanglez]

It’s moving to goalposts to say that Stutzle has to hit 1.14 in his D+3 season to show that he is marching Hughes’ production arc and then when he does it, pretend that it never happened.

With six games to go, they were crowing about the fact that he was short by 0.07 points per game.

what they are sayin is now hughes is a 100pt player so it's up to stutzle to match if you want to say he's as good as hughes.

 

[NyQuil]

what they are sayin is now hughes is a 100pt player so it's up to stutzle to match if you want to say he's as good as hughes.

That's also what we're saying.

Stutzle exceeded Hughes' D+3 season in his D+3 despite not being in the same stratosphere as Hughes so we'll see if he can do the same for the D+4.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Devils quite comfortably of course (noting that this is a super old poll)

 

[dirtydanglez]

That's also what we're saying.

Stutzle exceeded Hughes' D+3 season in his D+3 despite not being in the same stratosphere as Hughes so we'll see if he can do the same for the D+4.

glad your getting it. so far stutzle is still in the race but hasn't caught him yet.

 

[NyQuil]

glad your getting it. so far stutzle is still in the race but hasn't caught him yet.

I'm glad you're admitting he's in the race.

That's something that some Devils' fans were adamant was impossible back in the summer.

 

[dirtydanglez]

I'm glad you're admitting he's in the race.

That's something that some Devils' fans were adamant was impossible back in the summer.

back in the summer it was more of a stretch than it is now.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s moving to goalposts to say that Stutzle has to hit 1.14 in his D+3 season to show that he is marching Hughes’ production arc and then when he does it, pretend that it never happened.

With six games to go, they were crowing about the fact that he was short by 0.05 points per game.

It’s becoming ridiculous, after it not even close , after been shown quotes from a year ago, then Stu gets there, then the 3 decimal place argument, now it’s wait until next year,
But the goalposts aren’t moving, it’s so funny.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Idk there’s a lot of really good young teams in the east. I don’t think Montreal or Detroit should be in the poll. After that, I think it could be anyone in the long run. Hughes and Stutzle are close enough for me to cancel out. Tkachuk > Mercer. Hmmm. Really good poll

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Er, no. You just joined the thread and have no idea what is going on.



That's exactly what we're saying.

Here's a selection of quotes from this very thread:









Head to Head Comparison:

Hughes D+1: 61GP 7G 14A 21PTS -26 (0.34 PPG)
Stutzle D+1: 53GP 12G 17A 29PTS -18 (0.55 PPG)

Hughes D+2: 56GP 11G 20A 31PTS -3 (0.55 PPG)
Stutzle D+2: 79GP 22G 36A 58PTS -27 (0.73 PPG)

Hughes D+3: 49GP 26G 30A 56PTS -16 (1.14 PPG)
Stutzle D+3: 78GP 39G 51A 90PTS -3 (1.15 PPG)

Hughes D+4: 78GP 43G 56A 99PTS +10 (1.27 PPG)
Stutzle D+4: ?

I don't even care if people say Jack Hughes is a better player, he probably is.

But to say that there is a "universe" separating them is absurd, given their developmental arcs.

The challenge for Stutzle to meet Hughes 1.14 PPG season this year was met and exceeded, to the obvious surprise of some posters in this thread.

We'll see what next season offers.

Love the emphasis you put on that bolding and the way it elides the actual meaning of the quote. The context was all the screeching about Stutzle's first two years relative to Hughes, ignoring the contextual elements I listed in that post, while outright refusing to guarantee the numbers Hughes put up in his D+3. It was pretty lame.

You must have been so giddy when Stutzle put up that secondary assist, the way you ran to this thread. Between the thread bumps and sub-quoting, I honestly find the amount of work you and others are putting in here to be kind of adorable.

Stutzle definitely surprised. Not just me, but the rest of you Sens fans that didn't want to put your name to a number. Now he's got another level to reach, and potentially/likely the next one Hughes sets next year.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think top 3 or 4 is a better measure, 5th person is either a meh prospect or far out in terms of development.

I rank them in the following tiers. Hard to rank some teams are quite close.

BUF- Dahlin, Cozens, Power, Quinn
OTT- Stuetzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto
NJD- Hughes, Mercer, Hughes, Nemec

MTL- Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky
ANA- Zegras, McTavish, Drysdale, Zelleweger
DET- Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Berggren

For Montreal, you left out their 3rd best player this year. Guhle is infinitely more valuable than Slafkovsky and most likely Dach too. Just goes to show that maybe the player isnt meh or far out, just that your knowledge is lacking. Ditto Mintyukov being a much, much better prospect than Zellwegger.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

NJ is going to be the gold standard for the next 5-8 years imo. A lot hinges on their tending, but they should be able to find someone serviceable.

Adding Luke Hughes to this years team was just unfair lol.

 

[Panthaz89]

For Montreal, you left out their 3rd best player this year. Guhle is infinitely more valuable than Slafkovsky and most likely Dach too. Just goes to show that maybe the player isnt meh or far out, just that your knowledge is lacking. Ditto Mintyukov being a much, much better prospect than Zellwegger.

Mintyukov is good but Zellwegger is one of the best D prospects out there I think they are pretty comparable.

 

[Mrb1p]

Mintyukov is good but Zellwegger is one of the best D prospects out there I think they are pretty comparable.

Zellwegger is a B prospect, he's like Hutson, Casey, Mateychuk and others.

Mintyukov is one of the top 10 best D prospect in the league, they're not in the same category and every single person would trade their Zellwegger adjacent prospect for a Mintyukov adjacent prospect.

 

[HockeyWooot]

For Montreal, you left out their 3rd best player this year. Guhle is infinitely more valuable than Slafkovsky and most likely Dach too. Just goes to show that maybe the player isnt meh or far out, just that your knowledge is lacking. Ditto Mintyukov being a much, much better prospect than Zellwegger.

Agree to disagree. Picking for names is a balance of best player, ceiling, likelihood to fulfil potential etc.

The list of two tiers was for illustrative purposes. My point being that the second group ranks slightly behind the first group in my opinion.

 

[Mrb1p]

Agree to disagree. Picking for names is a balance of best player, ceiling, likelihood to fulfil potential etc.

The list of two tiers was for illustrative purposes. My point being that the second group ranks slightly behind the first group in my opinion.

Well if you remove Kaiden Guhle and Mintyukov on one side, and then remove Ridley Greig and Holtz on the other, surely you can see the error here ? Guhle was playing like a number one D for a good part of the year and Mintyukov destroyed the OHL, having a similar PPG to D+2 Greig as a D. Also just the quality of pick, removign a 16th and a 8th overall vs a 28th and a busting 8th, like I dont know.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

I think top 3 or 4 is a better measure, 5th person is either a meh prospect or far out in terms of development.

I rank them in the following tiers. Hard to rank some teams are quite close.

BUF- Dahlin, Cozens, Power, Quinn
OTT- Stuetzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto
NJD- Hughes, Mercer, Hughes, Nemec

MTL- Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky
ANA- Zegras, McTavish, Drysdale, Zelleweger
DET- Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Berggren

I don't think top 5 is enough for the Sabres lol

 

[NHL Fanatik]

---

Well if you remove Kaiden Guhle and Mintyukov on one side, and then remove Ridley Greig and Holtz on the other, surely you can see the error here ? Guhle was playing like a number one D for a good part of the year and Mintyukov destroyed the OHL, having a similar PPG to D+2 Greig as a D. Also just the quality of pick, removign a 16th and a 8th overall vs a 28th and a busting 8th, like I dont know.

And whos the busting 8th? Lol