Player Discussion Todd McLellan

[Del Preston]

Agree with others saying McLellan should be on the hot seat. I hope he regrets some of the decisions he made last season and would do things differently, or it might be some of the same this fall.

The coaching staff should mostly be on the same page but perhaps McLellan working with Woodcroft and Johnson for so long resulted in them being "too" alike and not having different ideas on how to fix the issues. Having two former NHL head coaches on the new staff should be a big help, same with an up-and-coming coach who had success in the WHL.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Even post-Pronger I'd still take a healthy Pitkanen or Visnovsky over most of what the Oilers have at D right now.

the problem is that Pitkanen hated it here, never stayed healthy and was out of the league a few years later
and Visnovsky, while a good player, also hated it here and never stayed healthy either...also gave up a ton to bring him here (Stoll and Greene..gutted our depth)

 

[Soundwave]

The narrative that Lowe was a good GM needs to stop. He never was. His teams bled talent every year until there was none left. He alienated the NHLPA and the other GM’s along the way too.

I didn't say he was good. I said he was better than Chiarelli, he also never had the benefit of a player as good as McDavid aside from maybe Pronger and one year of Weight and he made the playoffs both times he had a superstar level player.

Oilers have had bad management for ages which continues to this day, Lowe was just the best of a rotten lot.

 

[syz]

the problem is that Pitkanen hated it here, never stayed healthy and was out of the league a few years later
and Visnovsky, while a good player, also hated it here and never stayed healthy either...also gave up a ton to bring him here (Stoll and Greene..gutted our depth)

I mean if you want to talk about GMs giving up a ton to get defensemen I'm pretty sure there's a thread for that around here somewhere that makes Lowe look good.

Even if all the defensemen he acquired didn't want to play here or ran into injury troubles, the point remains that he regularly managed to acquire defensemen.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I mean if you want to talk about GMs giving up a ton to get defensemen I'm pretty sure there's a thread for that around here somewhere that makes Lowe look good.

Even if all the defensemen he acquired didn't want to play here or ran into injury troubles, the point remains that he regularly managed to acquire defensemen.

congratz I guess
did he do his job an improve the team though?

 

[syz]

congratz I guess
did he do his job an improve the team though?

He did his job and improved the defense, which is at least a step ahead of everybody else who's had the position for the last 18 years.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

He did his job and improved the defense, which is at least a step ahead of everybody else who's had the position for the last 18 years.

he did? they were still bleeding goals at an alarming rate with Pitkanen and Vishnovsky on the team lol
they gave up a ton to get these guys and they lasted less than 2 seasons...thats pretty damn terrible

 

[syz]

he did? they were still bleeding goals at an alarming rate with Pitkanen and Vishnovsky on the team lol
they gave up a ton to get these guys and they lasted less than 2 seasons...thats pretty damn terrible

The best player he gave up for 2 quality top 4 defensemen was Joffrey Lupul... we should be so lucky these days. Even Tambo eventually managed to turn Visnovsky into Whitney, who, again, if not for injuries, probably ends up better than most of what the Oilers have right now.

But yea, Lowe's eyes for forwards and goalies obviously weren't as good.

 

[Aerrol]

So... About the topic of the thread...


I'm moderately optimistic that Todd will work better with new assistants. I can live with the refusal to line match (still dislike it) if he actually makes good line combos and the special teams improve dramatically. I still generally like his even strength systems, though I wish we'd rely less on dump and chase.

 

[nabob]

So... About the topic of the thread...


I'm moderately optimistic that Todd will work better with new assistants. I can live with the refusal to line match (still dislike it) if he actually makes good line combos and the special teams improve dramatically. I still generally like his even strength systems, though I wish we'd rely less on dump and chase.

Him being unwilling to linematch and use the best weapon in the league in the best possible situations is really frustrating.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

All I know is that he is coaching for his job this year. We'll see if fear of unemployment is enough to overcome his questionable decisions.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Goalie makes the coach.

 

[nabob]

All I know is that he is coaching for his job this year. We'll see if fear of unemployment is enough to overcome his questionable decisions.

Well the PK did greatly improve when he took over later in the year. I get the feeling he’s not an assertive enough person to be the coach who takes us to the next level. He seems to be afraid of officials and the league, and unwilling to rock the boat.

 

[nabob]

Goalie makes the coach.

Bad coach can ruin a good goalie.

 

[rboomercat90]

All I know is that he is coaching for his job this year. We'll see if fear of unemployment is enough to overcome his questionable decisions.

You assume he’s coaching for his job this year. Doesn’t mean he actually is. He should have been coaching for his job in the second half of last season and he was still too stubborn to make obvious changes that were needed. Like I said earlier, I’m curios to see what length of leash he has now. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s still longer than most of us think it should be. In a move that seemed odd to me, the entire organization, from Nicholson to Chiarelli to Mclellan publicly blamed the players for last season. They weren’t taking a whole lot of blame on themselves. If things go wrong again, it still might be the players fault.

 

[Aerrol]

Him being unwilling to linematch and use the best weapon in the league in the best possible situations is really frustrating.

Yeah, I don't get it at all. What's the point of refusing to use such an effective and easy to use weapon?!

 

[Soundwave]

he did? they were still bleeding goals at an alarming rate with Pitkanen and Vishnovsky on the team lol
they gave up a ton to get these guys and they lasted less than 2 seasons...thats pretty damn terrible

Pitkanen takes a lot of crap but the Oilers were 35-22-6 with him in the line up ... that's a 99 point pace and a playoff team in 2007-08. Shame he didn't want to be here.

 

[Soundwave]

I think you’re giving him way too much credit for what happened pre lockout. He inherited a team from Sather with decent talent. They were competitive for a couple years but that talent started to erode every year as he started putting his own stamp on the team. When his talent was gone is where he “lost the plot”. I’d argue the good players he had initially masked how poor he was as GM those first couple years.

It’s a results oriented business and he got results in 2006. He gets credit for that but it comes with a huge asterisk. He was temporarily able to take advantage of the changing landscape of the new salary cap world but it came at a huge price. He mortgaged the future for that one year by trading draft picks and bringing in a guy who never wanted to be here in the first place. His departure set this team back several years and in the process gave the club the reputation of being a place nobody wants to play. That one year was great, everybody had fun and loved it. I can’t look at the aftermath though and consider Lowe to be a good GM though. When things go that bad it’s on the guy that put it together.

In any event, I don’t want to derail a Mclellan thread discussing Kevin Lowe. I just find it ridiculous when anybody starts saying he was a good GM. I do think you’re spot on saying that a GM has to have established positive relationships around the league in order to succeed and without them, he’s doomed to fail.

That team was largely built around Doug Weight ... he only had Weight for one season because the team couldn't afford to keep him.

You think the situation here now kinda stinks? Imagine the Oilers with a 50 million cap floor and unable to re-sign McDavid and come back to me.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Pitkanen takes a lot of crap but the Oilers were 35-22-6 with him in the line up ... that's a 99 point pace and a playoff team in 2007-08. Shame he didn't want to be here.

and Lowe traded him for Erik Cole

lucky us

 

[T-Funk]

Goalie makes the coach.

Damn Talbot refusing to use timeouts, breaking lines with Lucic, and getting his system pulled apart by other coaches.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

I remember that game in OT when anaheim refused to do anything until McDavid went off and then scored right away, and I was thinking "wow, I wish our coach could come up with strategies that consist of something other than 'just have them play hockey.'"

 

[rboomercat90]

That team was largely built around Doug Weight ... he only had Weight for one season because the team couldn't afford to keep him.

You think the situation here now kinda stinks? Imagine the Oilers with a 50 million cap floor and unable to re-sign McDavid and come back to me.

It would have been easier to make a deal for Weight that could actually help your team back then than it would be now because there was no cap and no need to worry about money in and money out.

One of my issues with that Weight deal at the time (aside from getting nothing back for him- see a pattern developing yet?) was that he let Weight dictate one or two locations he wanted to go and then made the best deal he could from that. Weight was his biggest asset he had and he needed a big return for the future of the franchise and he limited his trade partners to please him. This is a business. He was losing Weight. He needed to do what was best for the team first.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Damn Talbot refusing to use timeouts, breaking lines with Lucic, and getting his system pulled apart by other coaches.

Coach at bench: alright men...steel yourselves...one more dance along the razors edge.....and know this day there is gl-*first shot against goes in*-ory...to be had-f*** me"

 

[Cypress]

Well I have a feeling we won't be ranting about McLellan too much this season. Either the team will be better, or he'll be replaced. (At least I hope)

 

[Spawn]

I remember that game in OT when anaheim refused to do anything until McDavid went off and then scored right away, and I was thinking "wow, I wish our coach could come up with strategies that consist of something other than 'just have them play hockey.'"

Huh, I remember thinking

"wow, after McDavid, Drai and RNH this team literally doesn't have a single forward that you can play at 3v3"

I wont say McLellan doesn't make mistakes. He does. All coaches do. But the biggest injustice last season wasn't McLellan's coaching. It was the managements utter incompetence to ice a competitive group of NHLers.