Player Discussion Todd McLellan

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Del Preston

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Mar 8, 2013
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Anyone catch Shannon on Snet around 4 pm. Apparently said TMac and Chia on hot seat right now for the ****ty performance. Something about Katz not amused
Haven't seen it and couldn't find anything on Sportsnet.ca

That's encouraging Katz is mad.
 
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frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,183
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Haven't seen it and couldn't find anything on Sportsnet.ca

That's encouraging that Katz is mad.

I was reading the closed captions since I saw it at the gym but sounds like Katz is pissed and everyone below him is being looked at, more so coach and GM
 
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oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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Gretz in at GM
Mess in at Coach

:)

giphy.webp


Oh wait, Gretz was just recently raving about how important is it to have Russell's.
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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We don't have a roster built for high flying hockey.

So we might as well IMO in the interim at least get someone who can coach the flawed roster that Chiarelli has put together.

Sutter would make this an abrasive, borderline dirty, hard to play against team immediately and a lot of the nonsense stupidity on D coverage, PK, etc. would be resolved very quickly.

Sutter doesn't put up with that ****. I would weep for the ill-informed Oilers D-Man coming to practice thinking he can half ass it and blow coverage, because Darryl would rip their balls off for a lot of these mistakes. Sutter don't play that. On a Sutter team you play his system or else.

If the alternative is very much a realistic shot that we may be staring down another mini-rebuild where we have to rely on Yamamoto/Puljujarvi/this year's 1st to develop for a couple of years, my reasoning is just take the 1st rounder this year, and just hire Sutter and skip the losing in between.


You have Connor McDavid. By definition you have the key ingredient on you roster to play up-tempo hockey.

Not every player needs to be a speed demon. A top line with McDavid, Puljujarvi and Lucic does not have to play north-south hockey even with a Lucic on it.

The Oilers are not exceptionally fast but they often play slower than they are. They have big guys like Kassian, Khaira, Slepyshev and even Draisiatl who can all skate. The only guys on the team who I think are ill suited for this style are Letestu and Russell.

In fact, at ES when they are engaged they do typically play a fairly up-tempo game because their bigger guys can skate. The problem seems to happen on the pp and on the pk where they are respectively static and passive. Look at the two pp's last night in OT. The first was the typical Oiler pp predicated on having Letestu get a one timer. He sets up in his spot and basically stands in his position waiting for the cross ice feed. This pretty much freezes everyone else in place. Contrast that with the pp with Leon, McDavid, Nuge and Lucic. The first three were in constant motion and Leon became a trigger man. He's actually got a better one timer than Letestu but in their static formation he is never in a position to use it because McDavid is pretty much frozen on the right hand boards.

I am also not simply talking about fire wagon hockey here. I'm talking about aggressive hockey where players are in motion all over the ice. This is the new trend and it is killing teams that play the Sutter way. Look at Vegas. They have pretty much a non-name team but they play full out and hard game in and game out. It's not a grinding style but it is very aggressive.

The whole "you play his system or else" mentality does not work long in a league where even average players make $3M or more a year. The players tune that out very quickly. They will tolerate it if the team is having success which is what happened in LA. But that was at a time when Sutter's system fit the mold of the game. Even then you had a team that could never score despite a lot of real talent. This year they are on pace to score 45 more goals than they did last year even without Carter for a good part of the year.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Chiarelli for all his warts is a proven nhl level GM. Not some drunk driving x Oiler that looks, acts, and sounds like a Mr potato head gone wrong. Chiarelli is obviously a upgrade on Lowe and everybody else in the last decade. Perfect, no. Good, debatable. But I trust Chiarelli far more than whatever clown x Oiler they dig up to replace him next.

Mclellan I have similiar thoughts about however I think the Oilers problems last year had far too much smoke with poor coaching being the fire. Bad match ups, overplaying/underplaying, special teams, career worsts after career bests... Really doesn't look good for Mclellan. I hope this super group of coaches can find some chemistry with each other and the team.

The talent of the team Chiarelli has put together imo on paper is a playoff team. One year ago today favorites to be in the cup final. Can't help but feel Mclellan is on the hot seat but Chiarelli has at least the year. Honestly, there really isn't a whole lot a new GM could do to radically change the group for the better anyway.
 

rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Not a fan of McLellan but I really like this approach. Hopefully next season proves to be a redemption year for a lot of guys in this organization...


We hear a version of this very thing about the players every time there is a coaching or regime change. Something along the lines of “what player did before doesn’t matter, slate is wiped clean, only thing that counts now is how player performs today, yadda yadda yadda...” only thing different this time is Mclellan somehow survived when it should be a new head coach making those types of comments.

In all seriousness though, I thought this last year and these comments remind me again that it seems Mclellan has a lot of contempt for these players. I’m still saying he quit on them last year every bit as much as they quit on him. I’ve never seen that happen anywhere before and the coach gets to come back.
 
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Dazed and Confused

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Aug 10, 2007
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In all seriousness though, I thought this last year and these comments remind me again that it seems Mclellan has a lot of contempt for these players. I’m still saying he quit on them last year every bit as much as they quit on him.

Never quite thought of it that way, but it does make a lot of sense. Especially when you look at the number of blow ups Todd had this year at practice.

The players see the poor results and blame questionable schemes (like everyone else), and they start to question/second guess the assistant coaches. Todd on the other hand sides with his long time colleagues in Woodcroft and Johnson. Boom, rift created.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Chiarelli for all his warts is a proven nhl level GM. Not some drunk driving x Oiler that looks, acts, and sounds like a Mr potato head gone wrong. Chiarelli is obviously a upgrade on Lowe and everybody else in the last decade. Perfect, no. Good, debatable. But I trust Chiarelli far more than whatever clown x Oiler they dig up to replace him next.

Mclellan I have similiar thoughts about however I think the Oilers problems last year had far too much smoke with poor coaching being the fire. Bad match ups, overplaying/underplaying, special teams, career worsts after career bests... Really doesn't look good for Mclellan. I hope this super group of coaches can find some chemistry with each other and the team.

The talent of the team Chiarelli has put together imo on paper is a playoff team. One year ago today favorites to be in the cup final. Can't help but feel Mclellan is on the hot seat but Chiarelli has at least the year. Honestly, there really isn't a whole lot a new GM could do to radically change the group for the better anyway.

Kevin Lowe is a better GM than Chiarelli, the Oilers were competitive for a playoff berth for like 7/8 seasons as GM and made the Finals once. He brought in Pronger, Roloson and even though people crap on his drafting, he picked Hemsky, Eberle, Stoll all outside of the top 10 ... I see zero gauruntees Yamamoto or Puljujarvi are even as good as Hemsky.

Teams get overrated after Cinderella runs all the time, after the Avalanche had a "break out" year in 13-14, a lot of people had them pencilled into a Finals soon. After 14-15, a lot of people had the Flames being the next powerhouse (lol).

Oilers on paper have a lot of glaring weaknesses if one looks objectively. Lines 2, 3, and 4 could have a lot of trouble scoring and there's not much offence on the blue line. Talbot has been up and down in Edmonton and the back up is some European guy who has 4 games total NHL experience, so if Talbot goes south ... good luck with that.

As for McLellan, I think it was a mistake keeping him, I don't think he is ever going to lead this team anywhere. He does not adjust and in Edmonton he does not have the benefit of a team as deep as he did in San Jose and that's a problem for him. If this team is not .500 minimum after 10-12 games I think this dude is in deep crap.
 
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BoldNewLettuce

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You have Connor McDavid. By definition you have the key ingredient on you roster to play up-tempo hockey.

Not every player needs to be a speed demon. A top line with McDavid, Puljujarvi and Lucic does not have to play north-south hockey even with a Lucic on it.

The Oilers are not exceptionally fast but they often play slower than they are. They have big guys like Kassian, Khaira, Slepyshev and even Draisiatl who can all skate. The only guys on the team who I think are ill suited for this style are Letestu and Russell.

In fact, at ES when they are engaged they do typically play a fairly up-tempo game because their bigger guys can skate. The problem seems to happen on the pp and on the pk where they are respectively static and passive. Look at the two pp's last night in OT. The first was the typical Oiler pp predicated on having Letestu get a one timer. He sets up in his spot and basically stands in his position waiting for the cross ice feed. This pretty much freezes everyone else in place. Contrast that with the pp with Leon, McDavid, Nuge and Lucic. The first three were in constant motion and Leon became a trigger man. He's actually got a better one timer than Letestu but in their static formation he is never in a position to use it because McDavid is pretty much frozen on the right hand boards.

I am also not simply talking about fire wagon hockey here. I'm talking about aggressive hockey where players are in motion all over the ice. This is the new trend and it is killing teams that play the Sutter way. Look at Vegas. They have pretty much a non-name team but they play full out and hard game in and game out. It's not a grinding style but it is very aggressive.

The whole "you play his system or else" mentality does not work long in a league where even average players make $3M or more a year. The players tune that out very quickly. They will tolerate it if the team is having success which is what happened in LA. But that was at a time when Sutter's system fit the mold of the game. Even then you had a team that could never score despite a lot of real talent. This year they are on pace to score 45 more goals than they did last year even without Carter for a good part of the year.

I think they planned to build a bigger stronger team for a while now.

They tried a young skill team and it was a spectacular failure. They brought chia and tmac in to build a bigger tougher team that would battle against getzlaf and doughty and id argue they actually succeeded.

Im not sure they succeed without mcdavid but i also dont know mcdavid was part of that plan.
 

Ritchie Valens

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Sep 24, 2007
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Even with the complete overhaul of assistants, Todd is still on the hot seat in my opinion.

If this team is outside of the playoffs on Grey Cup weekend, that’s when I’d fire him if I was in charge; however, Yawney alone should help the PK improve drastically so that alone should help decrease the number in the loss column. Hopefully the players have the burning desire to kick some ass this season.

Until then, still 60-ish sleeps until TC.

sad-sigh-gif-13.gif
 

oXo Cube

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Nov 4, 2008
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Quite simply, Todd has to be on the hotseat because Chiarelli doesn't have a lot of rope left there. In fact I'm surprised it's as long as it was.

If he keeps defending his coach too much longer he will be effectively admitting that the problem is him.
 

BoldNewLettuce

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Dec 21, 2008
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Kevin Lowe is a better GM than Chiarelli, the Oilers were competitive for a playoff berth for like 7/8 seasons as GM and made the Finals once. He brought in Pronger, Roloson and even though people crap on his drafting, he picked Hemsky, Eberle, Stoll all outside of the top 10 ... I see zero gauruntees Yamamoto or Puljujarvi are even as good as Hemsky.

Teams get overrated after Cinderella runs all the time, after the Avalanche had a "break out" year in 13-14, a lot of people had them pencilled into a Finals soon. After 14-15, a lot of people had the Flames being the next powerhouse (lol).

Oilers on paper have a lot of glaring weaknesses if one looks objectively. Lines 2, 3, and 4 could have a lot of trouble scoring and there's not much offence on the blue line. Talbot has been up and down in Edmonton and the back up is some European guy who has 4 games total NHL experience, so if Talbot goes south ... good luck with that.

As for McLellan, I think it was a mistake keeping him, I don't think he is ever going to lead this team anywhere. He does not adjust and in Edmonton he does not have the benefit of a team as deep as he did in San Jose and that's a problem for him. If this team is not .500 minimum after 10-12 games I think this dude is in deep crap.

I agree.

But lowe had the advantage of playing before the nhl started posturing for tv deals and tinkering.... fiddlin.....

Also in a league where players had yet to hate his guts.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Kevin Lowe is a better GM than Chiarelli, the Oilers were competitive for a playoff berth for like 7/8 seasons as GM and made the Finals once.
Lowe got control of an established, legit playoff team with great pieces (Weight, Guerin, Smyth, Niinimaa)...all he had to do was not screw it up
which he did eventually

He brought in Pronger, Roloson and even though people crap on his drafting, he picked Hemsky, Eberle, Stoll all outside of the top 10 ... I see zero gauruntees Yamamoto or Puljujarvi are even as good as Hemsky.
also drafted Niniimaki, passed on Parise to pick Pouliot and had a failure of a 2007 draft...he was pretty bad
 
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rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Kevin Lowe is a better GM than Chiarelli, the Oilers were competitive for a playoff berth for like 7/8 seasons as GM and made the Finals once. He brought in Pronger, Roloson and even though people crap on his drafting, he picked Hemsky, Eberle, Stoll all outside of the top 10 ... I see zero gauruntees Yamamoto or Puljujarvi are even as good as Hemsky.

Teams get overrated after Cinderella runs all the time, after the Avalanche had a "break out" year in 13-14, a lot of people had them pencilled into a Finals soon. After 14-15, a lot of people had the Flames being the next powerhouse (lol).

Oilers on paper have a lot of glaring weaknesses if one looks objectively. Lines 2, 3, and 4 could have a lot of trouble scoring and there's not much offence on the blue line. Talbot has been up and down in Edmonton and the back up is some European guy who has 4 games total NHL experience, so if Talbot goes south ... good luck with that.

As for McLellan, I think it was a mistake keeping him, I don't think he is ever going to lead this team anywhere. He does not adjust and in Edmonton he does not have the benefit of a team as deep as he did in San Jose and that's a problem for him. If this team is not .500 minimum after 10-12 games I think this dude is in deep crap.
I’m really curious to see how long Mclellan’s leash is this year. An October like last year should be an automatic dismissal but will it be?
 

oXo Cube

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Good GM and Better GM than all the others who came after him(which Lowe absolutely was) are not the same thing.

Glen Sather is the only truly good executive this organization has ever had.
 
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GodPucker

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Sep 27, 2017
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I just hope this bozo doesn't play Lucic like he did this year. If he sucks, get him off the top 6 or top pp. Stop jerking him off. Can;t believe it took him THAT long to put RNH on McDavids line.
 
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Bangers

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May 31, 2006
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Kevin Lowe was a good GM pre- and immediately post-lockout, but somewhere along the line, he kind of lost the plot.

As much as people post on message boards about "strategy" and "winning trades", being a GM is ultimately about building relationships (with agents, other GMs, coaches, etc.). If you either haven't built those prior to being named GM (a la MacTavish) or insist on burning bridges (see Lowe with the Comrie situation and Vanek/Penner offer sheets), you're ultimately doomed to fail.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Kevin Lowe was a good GM pre- and immediately post-lockout, but somewhere along the line, he kind of lost the plot.

As much as people post on message boards about "strategy" and "winning trades", being a GM is ultimately about building relationships (with agents, other GMs, coaches, etc.). If you either haven't built those prior to being named GM (a la MacTavish) or insist on burning bridges (see Lowe with the Comrie situation and Vanek/Penner offer sheets), you're ultimately doomed to fail.
the Pronger trade broke his brain

he had the best year of his GM career right after the lockout...Pronger and Peca were great additions...so was picking up Tarnstrom and Spacek in January 2006..then bolstering the line-up even more with Samsonov and Roloson

unreal moves

unfortunately, after the Pronger fiasco, he lost the plot with bad trades and began chasing "big name" players like Vanek, Hossa and Heatley while alienating players like Smyth
 
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syz

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Jul 13, 2007
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the Pronger trade broke his brain

he had the best year of his GM career right after the lockout...Pronger and Peca were great additions...so was picking up Tarnstrom and Spacek in January 2006..then bolstering the line-up even more with Samsonov and Roloson

unreal moves

unfortunately, after the Pronger fiasco, he lost the plot with bad trades and began chasing "big name" players like Vanek, Hossa and Heatley while alienating players like Smyth

Even post-Pronger I'd still take a healthy Pitkanen or Visnovsky over most of what the Oilers have at D right now.
 

rboomercat90

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
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Edmonton
Kevin Lowe was a good GM pre- and immediately post-lockout, but somewhere along the line, he kind of lost the plot.

As much as people post on message boards about "strategy" and "winning trades", being a GM is ultimately about building relationships (with agents, other GMs, coaches, etc.). If you either haven't built those prior to being named GM (a la MacTavish) or insist on burning bridges (see Lowe with the Comrie situation and Vanek/Penner offer sheets), you're ultimately doomed to fail.
I think you’re giving him way too much credit for what happened pre lockout. He inherited a team from Sather with decent talent. They were competitive for a couple years but that talent started to erode every year as he started putting his own stamp on the team. When his talent was gone is where he “lost the plot”. I’d argue the good players he had initially masked how poor he was as GM those first couple years.

It’s a results oriented business and he got results in 2006. He gets credit for that but it comes with a huge asterisk. He was temporarily able to take advantage of the changing landscape of the new salary cap world but it came at a huge price. He mortgaged the future for that one year by trading draft picks and bringing in a guy who never wanted to be here in the first place. His departure set this team back several years and in the process gave the club the reputation of being a place nobody wants to play. That one year was great, everybody had fun and loved it. I can’t look at the aftermath though and consider Lowe to be a good GM though. When things go that bad it’s on the guy that put it together.

In any event, I don’t want to derail a Mclellan thread discussing Kevin Lowe. I just find it ridiculous when anybody starts saying he was a good GM. I do think you’re spot on saying that a GM has to have established positive relationships around the league in order to succeed and without them, he’s doomed to fail.
 
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