Proposal: TML acquiring a 1st round pick

[Fogelhund]

Leafs needs are not a mid-late first round pick, that might develop into something nice two-four season from now. The premise of this thread is flawed, and out of tune with the team.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Better hands. Better hockey IQ. Better finisher. Better fit in a top 6 role. I wanst sold on zucker for a 1rst...certainly not sold of KK for a first

Considering the Pens gave up Addison as well who's roughly worth an early 2nd I don't see how Kap is worth that significantly much less.

 

[Barnaby]

A 23 year old with size, two-way ability, speed, PK and physicality who can score 40-45 points with minimum PP time

Recent comparative trades:
Barclay Goodrow + 3rd for 1st

• Goodrow is 4 years older, worse offensively

Andreas Athanasiou + Ryan Kuffner for Gagner + 2 2nds

• Athanasiou is 2 years older, had a 50+ season but followed it up with a rough year and is a pending RFA

Jean-Gabriel Pageau for 1st + 2nd + 3rd

• Pageau is 4 years older, similar offensively and similar intangibles but more experience and consistent, was a pending UFA but had an extension in place prior to the trade

Blake Coleman for Nolan Foote + 1st

• Coleman is 5 years older, similar offensively and similar intangibles but more experienced and consistent. Positive: Cheap contract with 1 year term, negative: UFA after the deal is over. Not only got a 1st but a B+ prospect as well

Jason Zucker for Galchenyuk + 1st

• Zucker is 5 years older, similar offensively (other than his 64 point season) and returned a 1st + a pending UFA serviceable replacement

I could keep going but I think I made my point. All these deals were for middle 6 30-45 point wingers who have added intangibles. All are older than Kapanen, most are paid more and most returned a 1st + something.

I think the latter 1st rounder (#23 OA) is a fair price for Kapanen. Maybe a mid rounder added as well or a depth defenseman like a Hajek. Personally, I wouldn’t do it as the Rangers only because I don’t think they’re a Kap away from a Cup. I’d also think TML would rather use him towards getting a defenseman.

I would deal Buchnevich+1st for Nylander. TML takes the lesser player who makes less money (cap space) but would perform with your stars and adds a 1st. Rangers get the better player. I think TML go for defense but that is something I would def be interested in though I don’t think they would unless maybe they thought they could flip the 1st towards a defender.

The only thing I would add is that all the deals you correctly mention are trade deadline deals. Teams are more likely to move a 1st if they think they can go on a run. 1st rounders seem to increase in value towards the draft. Also, the picks might have some increased value now as those players won’t require to be protected in the expansion draft. If the Rangers hypothetically traded a 1st for Kap then they have to protect him or lose him for nothing. That’s means they’d have to expose an extra asset.

 

[Ciao]

Leafs needs are not a mid-late first round pick, that might develop into something nice two-four season from now. The premise of this thread is flawed, and out of tune with the team.

I don't follow the logic in this either.

Other than some dude's personal desire to see the Leafs pick in the first round, I can't think of any useful purpose.

It would not be a very wise or strategic thing for the Leafs to chase after a first just for the sake of having one.

 

[The Podium]

I think the latter 1st rounder (#23 OA) is a fair price for Kapanen. Maybe a mid rounder added as well or a depth defenseman like a Hajek. Personally, I wouldn’t do it as the Rangers only because I don’t think they’re a Kap away from a Cup. I’d also think TML would rather use him towards getting a defenseman.

I would deal Buchnevich+1st for Nylander. TML takes the lesser player who makes less money (cap space) but would perform with your stars and adds a 1st. Rangers get the better player. I think TML go for defense but that is something I would def be interested in though I don’t think they would unless maybe they thought they could flip the 1st towards a defender.

The only thing I would add is that all the deals you correctly mention are trade deadline deals. Teams are more likely to move a 1st if they think they can go on a run. 1st rounders seem to increase in value towards the draft. Also, the picks might have some increased value now as those players won’t require to be protected in the expansion draft. If the Rangers hypothetically traded a 1st for Kap then they have to protect him or lose him for nothing. That’s means they’d have to expose an extra asset.

Yes, all good points. Like I said in my original post, it is very unlike Kapanen is traded in a pick for player deal. I can see him dealt for a defenseman, or in a 3way trade where the picks returned are relayed, but not for a 1st +. Personally I doubt Kapanen is a cap casualty and will only be dealt in a deal that makes sense for a similar aged defenseman. Cant lose value on dealing your best trade asset like we unfortunately did with Kadri.

 

[Spazkat]

I'd rather have a proven asset than a low first rounder.

Guys like Kapenen and Johnsson are worth more than a low first.

Maybe in a vacuum, but between the 2 you have 6.6M in salary tied up for barely over 20 goals combined

With the salary cap stagnant or even going down thats a lot of money tied up there with not a ton to show for it on the scoreboard

 

[rent free]

Maybe in a vacuum, but between the 2 you have 6.6M in salary tied up for barely over 20 goals combined

With the salary cap stagnant or even going down thats a lot of money tied up there with not a ton to show for it on the scoreboard

last season they had 40 goals combined, and this season johnsson was hurt for more than 25 games. kapanen would be tied with getzlaf for 5th for ducks leading goal scorers and johnsson would be 6th, tied with fowler.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I don't follow the logic in this either.

Other than some dude's personal desire to see the Leafs pick in the first round, I can't think of any useful purpose.

It would not be a very wise or strategic thing for the Leafs to chase after a first just for the sake of having one.

It's simple really. The last report of a GM who said they really wanted to get back into the 1st round was Doug Wilson of the Sharks. People speculated he wouldn't be willing to part with anyone worth a 1st on his team so why bother. But then he completely bent Tampa Bay over for Goodrow. It worked for them, so maybe it'll work for us

 

[Spazkat]

last season they had 40 goals combined, and this season johnsson was hurt for more than 25 games. kapanen would be tied with getzlaf for 5th for ducks leading goal scorers and johnsson would be 6th, tied with fowler.

That is a really bad metric you're using if you're trying to prove those 2 are good lol. You're talking about 2 players on the 2nd highest scoring team in the NHL. And to make them sound good you compare them to the goal totals for a 35 year old (who's spent his career scoring sub 20 goals >50 assists) and a defenseman. From one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. Bravo

 

[phil162888]

tampa just gave up a 1st for barclay goodrow and a 3rd. pittsburgh gave up galchenyuk and a 1st for jason zucker who has similar stats outside of 1 good season.

Galchenyuk was considered a negative contract and a salary dump to even out the trade and get under the cap. Funny how people twist things lol

 

[BlueBaron]

I'm going to have to disagree with some here about trying to get a pick not making sense.

While I agree getting a pick isn't a big priority freeing up Cap space is. Most would agree that one of Kerfoot, AJ and Kappy will go to make Cap space. Kappy is the favorite to move due to position and potntial return.

Now the dream of course is a trade for a RHD to play with Rielly. Reality is that trade may not be available and maybe Free Agency is how we solve it. Trading for picks or prospects suddenly makes sense. You free up Cap to sign another player while also getting assets for the future which we could use about now. So while trading him for anything other than a RHD is less than ideal it may actually prove better for us long term.
AJ, Kappy and Ceci earn as much as Petro will probably want......Maybe Robertson-Kerfoot-Bracco as a third line lets us get Petro and picks? How bad would that be?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'm going to have to disagree with some here about trying to get a pick not making sense.

While I agree getting a pick isn't a big priority freeing up Cap space is. Most would agree that one of Kerfoot, AJ and Kappy will go to make Cap space. Kappy is the favorite to move due to position and potntial return.

Now the dream of course is a trade for a RHD to play with Rielly. Reality is that trade may not be available and maybe Free Agency is how we solve it. Trading for picks or prospects suddenly makes sense. You free up Cap to sign another player while also getting assets for the future which we could use about now. So while trading him for anything other than a RHD is less than ideal it may actually prove better for us long term.
AJ, Kappy and Ceci earn as much as Petro will probably want......Maybe Robertson-Kerfoot-Bracco as a third line lets us get Petro and picks? How bad would that be?

That's a terrible 3rd line. Brutal.

 

[BlueBaron]

That's a terrible 3rd line. Brutal.

It's unproven and also probably a little younger than we would probably do.

Robertson is a top prospect and Bracco has been a top AHL producer. Normally these are the ideal quality of prospect you would want to bring in. I must conclude you do not understand rookies, do not know the quality of the two in question or are simply looking for negatives to spew. Either way your assessment is a bit bizarre.

I'm guessing your team only drafts Elite first line forwards and has them on every line.

 

[13pacheco31]

It's unproven and also probably a little younger than we would probably do.

Robertson is a top prospect and Bracco has been a top AHL producer. Normally these are the ideal quality of prospect you would want to bring in. I must conclude you do not understand rookies, do not know the quality of the two in question or are simply looking for negatives to spew. Either way your assessment is a bit bizarre.

I'm guessing your team only drafts Elite first line forwards and has them on every line.

No, hes right, that's a terrible 3rd line. Not only are bracco and kerfoot both perimeter players, but bracco isn't even that good. I really dont understand the fans that are so high on a C prospect.

 

[BlueBaron]

No, hes right, that's a terrible 3rd line. Not only are bracco and kerfoot both perimeter players, but bracco isn't even that good. I really dont understand the fans that are so high on a C prospect.

Bracco was a point a gamer in the A at the age of 21. Normally that is considered a great prospect, C prospect just suggests ignorance.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Bracco was a point a gamer in the A at the age of 21. Normally that is considered a great prospect, C prospect just suggests ignorance.

he’s 23, still in the AHL and regressed last season.

 

[13pacheco31]

Bracco was a point a gamer in the A at the age of 21. Normally that is considered a great prospect, C prospect just suggests ignorance.

You might want to check those numbers and come back to me again about that ppg at 21 statement. Hes a small, perimeter player with suspect skating, who hasn't even gotten a sniff at the nhl despite his numbers. Hes also only managed to score 32 goals in his 169 games in the A. Those are concerning numbers if you ask me, even for a play maker, in the minors that's absolutely abysmal

 

[BlueBaron]

You might want to check those numbers and come back to me again about that ppg at 21 statement. Hes a small, perimeter player with suspect skating, who hasn't even gotten a sniff at the nhl despite his numbers. Hes also only managed to score 32 goals in his 169 games in the A. Those are concerning numbers if you ask me, even for a play maker, in the minors that's absolutely abysmal

79 points in 75 games in 18-19. yep you got me, he was over a point a game. I can't take the "not enough goals" argument seriously. Does he need 30 goals to be a 3rd liner? Trying way too hard.

 

[13pacheco31]

79 points in 75 games in 18-19. yep you got me, he was over a point a game. I can't take the "not enough goals" argument seriously. Does he need 30 goals to be a 3rd liner? Trying way too hard.

So you're going to completely omit his 21 yo season? I dont expect him to be a 30 goal scorer but out of nearly 3 whole seasons hes only put up 20 goals once and hasn't even come close to scoring 10 in the other two seasons. So yeah, i expect more from him even as a third liner

 

[BlueBaron]

So you're going to completely omit his 21 yo season? I dont expect him to be a 30 goal scorer but out of nearly 3 whole seasons hes only put up 20 goals once and hasn't even come close to scoring 10 in the other two seasons. So yeah, i expect more from him even as a third liner

He was a little disappointing last year. Congrats. Tell all your friends. Is this supposed to mean he is a bust now?

I get it, you don't like Bracco and he will destroy our team. Good talk.

 

[13pacheco31]

He was a little disappointing last year. Congrats. Tell all your friends. Is this supposed to mean he is a bust now?

I get it, you don't like Bracco and he will destroy our team. Good talk.

Are you jeremy bracco or his agent or something? You are way too defensive over a prospect. I'm just saying, he's way over hyped. He had a mediocre rookie year in the A followed by a very good season. If he had repeated that this year, I'd totally be on board with you, but he took a step back. His numbers suggest to me that hes your dime a dozen prospect. You cant even really dispute that outside of one good season

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Are you jeremy bracco or his agent or something? You are way too defensive over a prospect. I'm just saying, he's way over hyped. He had a mediocre rookie year in the A followed by a very good season. If he had repeated that this year, I'd totally be on board with you, but he took a step back. His numbers suggest to me that hes your dime a dozen prospect. You cant even really dispute that outside of one good season

at 23 years old can we still call him a prospect? He was in the Connor McDavid draft.

 

[BlueBaron]

Are you jeremy bracco or his agent or something? You are way too defensive over a prospect. I'm just saying, he's way over hyped. He had a mediocre rookie year in the A followed by a very good season. If he had repeated that this year, I'd totally be on board with you, but he took a step back. His numbers suggest to me that hes your dime a dozen prospect. You cant even really dispute that outside of one good season

Nah I just tire of the way our players are constantly disparaged and misrepresented. I think it is more fair to say Bracco had 1 bad season as a Leaf rather than to try and paint his AHL breakout as an anomaly. Dime a dozen does not describe players who can score a point a game in the AHL. Let's see what happens next year.

 

[13pacheco31]

Nah I just tire of the way our players are constantly disparaged and misrepresented. I think it is more fair to say Bracco had 1 bad season as a Leaf rather than to try and paint his AHL breakout as an anomaly. Dime a dozen does not describe players who can score a point a game in the AHL. Let's see what happens next year.

I would love to be wrong and see him turn out to be a great nhl player but I've seen him play and I just dont see it.

 

[BlueBaron]

I would love to be wrong and see him turn out to be a great nhl player but I've seen him play and I just dont see it.

I think he still has a shot at a 2nd liner but is probably going to be a 10-30 3rd liner. I also don't think he does it with us