Tinordi and Fournier to the Coyotes for John Scott and Victor Bartley Part II

[Brainiac]

Clear swap of problems. Bergevin and Maloney knew what was going on for sure.

Agreed. Hence why Bergevin took Scott in that deal.

 

[montreal]

Clear swap of problems. Bergevin and Maloney knew what was going on for sure.

Only reason media making a fuss about the trade is because he was a former first round pick and ppl were looking to bash Bergevin for wtv reason.

Heck if you think Bergevin gave up anything in Tinordi of value than man he must of got amazing value in getting first rounder's Matteau and Danault.

This article says neither side knew,

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/tinordi-suspension-caught-the-coyotes-by-surprise/

Neither team knew about the test result at the time of the trade, according to #Coyotes.

And according to Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman, the test results would have had to stay private anyway.

 

[Habs4ev*]

bergevin and current habs management are fast becoming a joke
they carry no respect and are the least bit transparent and are now in their ivory tower when in comes to their fan base
montreal fast becoming a garbage organization

becoming?

we are already there my friend

 

[habs03]

This article says neither side knew,

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/tinordi-suspension-caught-the-coyotes-by-surprise/

Wrote this on the main board..

Elliot Friedman on Tim and Sid last night kinda hinted that while the player is only suppose to know and clubs are not to be notified. It doesn't mean they didn't know about it. I think he kinda was hinting that while they weren't suppose to know. They all knew about it.

It just doesn't make sense from a finically stand point, Mtl acquiring 2 AHL 1 way contacts and trading a 2 way contact.



While he isn't very good, he was on a 2 way deal, getting 850K in the NHL and likely under 100K in the AHL.

Even if he was worthless a team like Nashville who was part of the 3 way deal, would rather trade Bartley straight up for Tinordi, waiver Tinordi and having him in the AHL and paying him next to nothing. Instead of paying Bartley his full salary since he was on a 1 way deal playing in the AHL getting his full salary.

Reason Nashville didn't do it is because they likely also know about Tinordi and this wasn't worth it for them to save a few hundred k over this.

Meanwhile Yotes will more than happy to trade away their Scott problem for Tinordi's.

Habs basically playing over 1M (Bartley and Scott 1 way salary) to get rid of Tinordi and this issue, where they would just waived him sent him to the AHL an paid his AHL salary.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

Can anyone tell me what he got in trouble for? What kind of drugs?

 

[montreal]

Wrote this on the main board..

Elliot Friedman on Tim and Sid last night kinda hinted that while the player is only suppose to know and clubs are not to be notified. It doesn't mean they didn't know about it. I think he kinda was hinting that while they weren't suppose to know. They all knew about it.

It just doesn't make sense from a finically stand point, Mtl acquiring 2 AHL 1 way contacts and trading a 2 way contact.



While he isn't very good, he was on a 2 way deal, getting 850K in the NHL and likely under 100K in the AHL.

Even if he was worthless a team like Nashville who was part of the 3 way deal, would rather trade Bartley straight up for Tinordi, waiver Tinordi and having him in the AHL and paying him next to nothing. Instead of paying Bartley his full salary since he was on a 1 way deal playing in the AHL getting his full salary.

Reason Nashville didn't do it is because they likely also know about Tinordi and this wasn't worth it for them to save a few hundred k over this.

Meanwhile Yotes will more than happy to trade away their Scott problem for Tinordi's.

Habs basically playing over 1M (Bartley and Scott 1 way salary) to get rid of Tinordi and this issue, where they would just waived him sent him to the AHL an paid his AHL salary.

I don't think a team would risk sending Tinordi down to the AHL since they could lose him for nothing. So if the Habs trade Tinordi to the Yotes and then the Yotes send him to the AHL, they would have to offer him back to the Habs first. Granted maybe they can work out a deal before hand, assuming that's allowed since the whole reason why they came up with waivers was so that teams couldn't keep players in the AHL too long.

 

[habs03]

I don't think a team would risk sending Tinordi down to the AHL since they could lose him for nothing. So if the Habs trade Tinordi to the Yotes and then the Yotes send him to the AHL, they would have to offer him back to the Habs first. Granted maybe they can work out a deal before hand, assuming that's allowed since the whole reason why they came up with waivers was so that teams couldn't keep players in the AHL too long.

What your saying is correct but not sure what it has to do with my post. maybe I was unclear.

Bartley was on waivers a week or two before the trade, so if Mtl really wanted him, they could have picked him up for free. They not only traded Tinodi for him, but also picked up a guy with negative value in John Scott, in the sense not only was there a mess with him with the All-Star game but he was on a 1 way deal.

Its clear that Habs saw Tinordi as someone with negative value and its clear the Yotes knew about this because they wouldn't do this deal with John Scott going the other way. "My program for yours".

 

[montreal]

What your saying is correct but not sure what it has to do with my post. maybe I was unclear.

Bartley was on waivers a week or two before the trade, so if Mtl really wanted him, they could have picked him up for free. They not only traded Tinodi for him, but also picked up a guy with negative value in John Scott, in the sense not only was there a mess with him with the All-Star game but he was on a 1 way deal.

Its clear that Habs saw Tinordi as someone with negative value and its clear the Yotes knew about this because they wouldn't do this deal with John Scott going the other way. "My program for yours".

Bartley was placed on waivers by Nashville in November, not before the trade. He played 1 game for Nashville this year and then rode the pine, then was sent to the AHL. But that's a moot point, if the Habs acquired him for AHL help since if they picked him off waivers he would have to stay in the NHL all season long. Once they tried to send him down they would need to offer him back to Nashville.

With Barberio landing a full time NHL job, the IceCaps D was a mess. Ellis is a 4th year pro but only had about 160 games at the pro level going into the season. Hanley was a 2nd year pro, Bennett a 2nd year pro, Dietz a 3rd year pro that missed half a season, Lernout/Didier/Johnston all rookies. They badly needed a vet on the blueline, by trading for him they could play him in the AHL without having to worry about waivers. Then the Habs lost half their blueline and were forced to call him up so now they can't send him back down without having to go through waivers

 

[habs03]

Bartley was placed on waivers by Nashville in November, not before the trade. He played 1 game for Nashville this year and then rode the pine, then was sent to the AHL. But that's a moot point, if the Habs acquired him for AHL help since if they picked him off waivers he would have to stay in the NHL all season long. Once they tried to send him down they would need to offer him back to Nashville.

With Barberio landing a full time NHL job, the IceCaps D was a mess. Ellis is a 4th year pro but only had about 160 games at the pro level going into the season. Hanley was a 2nd year pro, Bennett a 2nd year pro, Dietz a 3rd year pro that missed half a season, Lernout/Didier/Johnston all rookies. They badly needed a vet on the blueline, by trading for him they could play him in the AHL without having to worry about waivers. Then the Habs lost half their blueline and were forced to call him up so now they can't send him back down without having to go through waivers

Well Bartley was actually brought in for the Habs not the AHL. He went to Mtl directly after the trade. He was sent down to the AHL for a condition stint where he got hurt in his first game I believe.

 

[montreal]

Well Bartley was actually brought in for the Habs not the AHL. He went to Mtl directly after the trade. He was sent down to the AHL for a condition stint where he got hurt in his first game I believe.

He wasn't on a conditioning stint as he had already cleared waivers and was in the AHL. So you don't need a conditioning stint when you have been playing in the AHL for the past 2 months.

 

[Stoneburg]

IMHO, the Yotes had to know, otherwise, if I was them, I would claim damaged goods and ask the NHL to void the trade. Isn't there NHL some rule about that?

 

[montreal]

IMHO, the Yotes had to know, otherwise, if I was them, I would claim damaged goods and ask the NHL to void the trade. Isn't there NHL some rule about that?

It's already been stated the Yotes couldn't do that because the league considers the testing private.

 

[the]

IMHO, the Yotes had to know, otherwise, if I was them, I would claim damaged goods and ask the NHL to void the trade. Isn't there NHL some rule about that?

Agreed, let's give back John Scott to the Coyotes.

 

[DanT]

This article says neither side knew,

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/tinordi-suspension-caught-the-coyotes-by-surprise/

Neither team knew about the test result at the time of the trade, according to #Coyotes.
[...]
And according to Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman, the test results would have had to stay private anyway.

Here my theory The wording is neither team knew about the "Test Results" I think they both knew about the situation but didn't know the result. There an appeal process and B sample etc. All this take time. They knew there was a situation with PED but since the result has not been reach yet they don't know about the result Tinordi could have been found Innocent after the proceeding . Plausible deniability.

 

[montreal]

Here my theory The wording is neither team knew about the "Test Results" I think they both knew about the situation but didn't know the result. There an appeal process and B sample etc. All this take time. They knew there was a situation with PED but since the result has not been reach yet they don't know about the result Tinordi could have been found Innocent after the proceeding . Plausible deniability.

Well the whole thing is strange. First Bobby Mac says MB didn't want Scott yet he gets him in the deal. Then there's the whole the NHL doesn't want Scott at the All Star game yet he ends up there. So who knew what is a good question. It makes it even stranger when MB said at the time of the trade that if you knew why or whatever was the quote, that now knowing what we know about Tinordi it makes it sound like he did know something was going on.

My question now is how it impacts his rep with the Yotes GM and other GMs, although it's not like it's a really big deal. It's not like the Yotes losing Tinordi for 20 games will matter that much other then getting a longer look at him. This could mean that he'll be easier to put in the AHL next year if he doesn't make their team, assuming of course he's re-signed in the first place.

 

[Habaddict]

I'm scared to even approach this particular morass. I could sink out
of sight,and never reappear. However it occurs to me that it could be
about money. (how could that happen?) Habs lots of cash. Coyotes not
so much. And this deal saves Coyotes actual money. So it could involve
some future favor coming our way.

 

[Redux91]

as far as im concerned its not even our problem anymore, not really sure what everyones freaking out about

 

[habs03]

Bartley was placed on waivers by Nashville in November, not before the trade. He played 1 game for Nashville this year and then rode the pine, then was sent to the AHL. But that's a moot point, if the Habs acquired him for AHL help since if they picked him off waivers he would have to stay in the NHL all season long. Once they tried to send him down they would need to offer him back to Nashville.

With Barberio landing a full time NHL job, the IceCaps D was a mess. Ellis is a 4th year pro but only had about 160 games at the pro level going into the season. Hanley was a 2nd year pro, Bennett a 2nd year pro, Dietz a 3rd year pro that missed half a season, Lernout/Didier/Johnston all rookies. They badly needed a vet on the blueline, by trading for him they could play him in the AHL without having to worry about waivers. Then the Habs lost half their blueline and were forced to call him up so now they can't send him back down without having to go through waivers

When the trade was made, while people first thought Bartley was going to the AHL, he actually went to Mtl directly. It wasn't for almost 5 days later was he sent down to the AHL.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/1897603/victor-bartley

Trade was Jan 15, he was sent down Jan 20th.

Anyhow I think we are going off course, point being is that Tinordi had little value and I believe you might agree that both teams were looking to get ride of their issue's for the others.

I mean If mtl wanted AHL help, why not make an AHL trade, I don't think it would cost much to get an AHL vet dmen.

 

[calder candidate]

It is clear that both team unofficially knew... Mtl wanted to get rid of the issue, Coyotes wanted to save the money (might even be additional saving since he is suspended).

 

[montreal]

When the trade was made, while people first thought Bartley was going to the AHL, he actually went to Mtl directly. It wasn't for almost 5 days later was he sent down to the AHL.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/1897603/victor-bartley

Trade was Jan 15, he was sent down Jan 20th.

Anyhow I think we are going off course, point being is that Tinordi had little value and I believe you might agree that both teams were looking to get ride of their issue's for the others.

I mean If mtl wanted AHL help, why not make an AHL trade, I don't think it would cost much to get an AHL vet dmen.

It was an AHL trade though, when you trade for a guy that's played all year but 1 game in the AHL, it's an AHL trade.

 

[Ezpz]

I'm scared to even approach this particular morass. I could sink out
of sight,and never reappear. However it occurs to me that it could be
about money. (how could that happen?) Habs lots of cash. Coyotes not
so much. And this deal saves Coyotes actual money. So it could involve
some future favor coming our way.

OEL for Desharnais.

 

[habs03]

It was an AHL trade though, when you trade for a guy that's played all year but 1 game in the AHL, it's an AHL trade.

Ok Tinordi for Bartley makes sense from a hockey point of view.

Mtl gets a guy in Bartley who even though he is on a 1 way contact, they can have him in the AHL and in chance of injuries can call him up no problem since he was already went thru waivers, which isn't the case for Tinordi.

But why would Mtl also have to take Scotts 1 way contact to make the deal happen.

 

[montreal]

Ok Tinordi for Bartley makes sense from a hockey point of view.

Mtl gets a guy in Bartley who even though he is on a 1 way contact, they can have him in the AHL and in chance of injuries can call him up no problem since he was already went thru waivers, which isn't the case for Tinordi.

But why would Mtl also have to take Scotts 1 way contact to make the deal happen.

that part I don't get, as Bobby Mac said at the time that MB didn't want Scott. I do have to wonder if the NHL stepped in to keep Scott from the All Star game. It certainly makes you wonder what went on there.

 

[habs03]

that part I don't get, as Bobby Mac said at the time that MB didn't want Scott. I do have to wonder if the NHL stepped in to keep Scott from the All Star game. It certainly makes you wonder what went on there.

Exactly, which leads to believe that both GM were aware of the what was going on. And wanted to help each other out.

 

[montreal]

Exactly, which leads to believe that both GM were aware of the what was going on. And wanted to help each other out.

I doubt we will ever really know but since the testing is private, I don't think the Yotes knew. Maybe MB told them there was an issue but it sounds like you can't disclose any info about the testing (since he appealed and had he won the appeal, perhaps there could be legal recourse for him if it got out, or least the NHL would be worried that there could be legal recourse)