Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren - AHL Edition

[AppsSyl]

Was talking about Matthews

Sorry my bad, I assumed it was Liljegren given the thread.

 

[CalEh]

Thanks to those who contribute to this thread.

As a huge Leafs fan but living in Los Angeles, it's sometimes difficult to track the Marlies. I appreciate all of the hard work you put in to give updates.

Have a wonderful Sunday everybody.

 

[horner]

everyone makes mistakes but with Gards i swear he gets stoned before the game , he just makes plays where you have no idea where his heads at

That's funny.
And I totally agree

 

[LeafSteel]

Liljegrin is where he needs to be, learning what he needs to learn.

Late season call up is the only scenario I to see him up with the Leafs for.

 

[Stephen]

Very excited about Liljegren, but the reality is when you throw him in with a group that includes Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, you have many of the same skillsets on the blueline and not enough diversity. Not even talking about "truculence" but you'd probably do well to throw in a big all around defenseman like an Ekholm, Pietrangelo into the mix and or a kind of do it all Provorov/Doughty type.

 

[zeke]

Very excited about Liljegren, but the reality is when you throw him in with a group that includes Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, you have many of the same skillsets on the blueline and not enough diversity. Not even talking about "truculence" but you'd probably do well to throw in a big all around defenseman like an Ekholm, Pietrangelo into the mix and or a kind of do it all Provorov/Doughty type.

more skill is good, less skill is bad.

 

[zeke]

Jake Gardiner is actually a fairly decent comparison for the kid.. He's also prone to making the same mistakes, as are most that control the puck as much as these two.

timmy is far far ahead of jake at the same age.

 

[Stephen]

more skill is good, less skill is bad.

It's more diversity in skillsets in your top four. Look at Nashville. They have four skilled defensemen in Josi, Subban, Ellis, Ekholm and they all do different things.

I'd probably lean towards a blueline group with a max. of three of those guys and maybe four of them, with Zaitsev being the most disposable, followed by Gardiner then Rielly and Liljegren based on his upside.

 

[bobermay]

It's more diversity in skillsets in your top four. Look at Nashville. They have four skilled defensemen in Josi, Subban, Ellis, Ekholm and they all do different things.

I'd probably lean towards a blueline group with a max. of three of those guys and maybe four of them, with Zaitsev being the most disposable, followed by Gardiner then Rielly and Liljegren based on his upside.

Zaitsev's skillsets is quite different then Rielly, Gardiner and Liljegren IMO...

I understand your point though... which is why I think one of Rielly and Gardiner are not in our long-term plans... its early yet, but its starting to look like Rielly is taking another step forward and thus Gardiner could be the odd man out.

 

[Stephen]

Zaitsev's skillsets is quite different then Rielly, Gardiner and Liljegren IMO...

I understand your point though... which is why I think one of Rielly and Gardiner are not in our long-term plans... its early yet, but its starting to look like Rielly is taking another step forward and thus Gardiner could be the odd man out.

I don't know if it's from playing with Gardiner, but Zaitsev often looks like a poor man's Gardiner out there. Elite skaters, good puck handling, good offensive instincts but so soft on the puck, weak zone play, spindly builds and lack of strength in the scrums. I'd get rid of Zaitsev before Gardiner.

 

[bobermay]

I don't know if it's from playing with Gardiner, but Zaitsev often looks like a poor man's Gardiner out there. Elite skaters, good puck handling, good offensive instincts but so soft on the puck, weak zone play, spindly builds and lack of strength in the scrums. I'd get rid of Zaitsev before Gardiner.

Although some of what you've said is probably true, I think they're fairly different...

[1] Gardiner is better puck handler
[2] Gardiner is more elite at the breakout passes...
[3] Zaitsev has a better/more effective shot
[4] Zaitsev has a better stick (defending)
[5] Zaitsev is stronger positionally

I kind if view Gardiner more of a puck rusher, and Zaitsev more of a well-rounded D-man.

 

[Stephen]

Although some of what you've said is probably true, I think they're fairly different...

[1] Gardiner is better puck handler
[2] Gardiner is more elite at the breakout passes...
[3] Zaitsev has a better/more effective shot
[4] Zaitsev has a better stick (defending)
[5] Zaitsev is stronger positionally

I kind if view Gardiner more of a puck rusher, and Zaitsev more of a well-rounded D-man.

Yeah I wouldn't disagree with you on those points. Probably just that they're both somewhat casual with the puck and Zaitsev isn't well rounded enough to be, well counted on as the well rounded option. The spread between the two isn't huge.

In an ideal world, I'd upgrade on him with someone who is a little physically denser, plays with a little more deliberateness to his game.

 

[socko]

Really excited about this guy. Still can't believe all those teams passed on him.

 

[zeke]

It's more diversity in skillsets in your top four. Look at Nashville. They have four skilled defensemen in Josi, Subban, Ellis, Ekholm and they all do different things.

I'd probably lean towards a blueline group with a max. of three of those guys and maybe four of them, with Zaitsev being the most disposable, followed by Gardiner then Rielly and Liljegren based on his upside.

notice how nashville is always ditching the big slugs for skilled skaters?

 

[Stephen]

notice how nashville is always ditching the big slugs for skilled skaters?

I'm the last person to ever advocate for a Luke Schenn/Richardson "shut down" bruiser, so let's dispel that notion. Second Nashville lost Suter in free agency, traded one slug in Weber and traded Seth Jones to upgrade another position.

We need skating and skill. But what kind of skill. We are also missing skating and skill guys with minute munching abilities and big wingspans to cover the ice (Pietrangelo, Jones, Slavin), skating and skill guys who are field marshals (Doughty, Suter).

So what we need are 1) a tower of power and 2) a bowling ball to compliment Rielly, Liljegren and Gardiner who are the rushing, transition speed and skill guys. Zaitsev is a bit of a tweener, very similar to Gardiner.

 

[meefer]

If he isn't ready are Jake Morgan and Polak...

I enjoy most of your posts. but this one has me confused.
Are you suggesting that Liljegen should be moved up to the Leafs because he's equal or better than: Jake, Morgan and Polak?

Really?

My friend, you've got to slow down and lay off the pipe. TL is a fine prospect with great upside, but he's not ready yet. Change for the sake of change is not how this team will move forward.

 

[firstemperor]

I'm the last person to ever advocate for a Luke Schenn/Richardson "shut down" bruiser, so let's dispel that notion. Second Nashville lost Suter in free agency, traded one slug in Weber and traded Seth Jones to upgrade another position.

We need skating and skill. But what kind of skill. We are also missing skating and skill guys with minute munching abilities and big wingspans to cover the ice (Pietrangelo, Jones, Slavin), skating and skill guys who are field marshals (Doughty, Suter).

So what we need are 1) a tower of power and 2) a bowling ball to compliment Rielly, Liljegren and Gardiner who are the rushing, transition speed and skill guys. Zaitsev is a bit of a tweener, very similar to Gardiner.

The problem with getting a Piets, Jones type, bigger guy, that are as skilled, mobile as them is they only come very high in the draft.

Slavin is a Parayko type commodity. It's like a big-foot sighting, you only see them once in a blue moon. Though clearly Carolina's drafting lately has been nothing short of amazing with late round steals in Aho, Slavin, Pesce and guys like Roy, Mattheos showing great promise already.

I'd imagine it would be inherently difficult to gauge how good Slavin is from any lower level league...because your not testing him with high quality competition, pace, etc. His hockey IQ and instincts are just off the charts, he reads plays and breaks them up before the offensive team can get it deep enough to generate any zone pressure.

Obviously, in a ideal world, we need a Lindholm/Piets type compliment......but we are talking idealistically. Those guys aren't available through trade. Maybe McDonagh, Carlson, Doughty, etc. hit UFA and you can back the brink truck to get one of them here....or you draft one late.

A lesser talent like Carlo would do wonders on this team as well.

 

[stickty111]

Lilly has been transitioning really well. The fact that Keefe has already moved him up to play with Dermott, is a good sign

Also I would keep Zaitsev over Gardiner. I agree with Bobermay that Zaitsev's skills are a little different.

 

[darrylsittler27]

The most likely scenario is when Liljegren is ready Gardiner may be moved for a needed piece. You can't use Nashville as we don't have a Jussi or a Subban. Like it or not our D doesn't seem to have the right mix yet.

 

[Stephen]

My thinking is in a couple of years the Leafs may have to break the bank and add that special finishing piece defenseman, cause an Auston Matthews comes along every century and you just need to do whatever you can to build a championship calibre team around him. I think Liljegren definitely has a place in that mix though.

 

[Menzinger]

I don't see it as Gardiner vs Zaitsev, more of Gardiner vs Rielly. Both guys will be need raises at the similar time, and I think management will likely only opt to keep one.

Issue is though, not sure who they go with longer term.

 

[Vancity2HFax]

I don't see it as Gardiner vs Zaitsev, more of Gardiner vs Rielly. Both guys will be need raises at the similar time, and I think management will likely only opt to keep one.

Issue is though, not sure who they go with longer term.

Raises at a similar time? Rielly is signed for 4 more years after this, and if you were referring to Zaitsev, he's signed for 6 more. Gardiner is only signed for 1 after this.

 

[thewave]

I enjoy most of your posts. but this one has me confused.
Are you suggesting that Liljegen should be moved up to the Leafs because he's equal or better than: Jake, Morgan and Polak?

Really?

My friend, you've got to slow down and lay off the pipe. TL is a fine prospect with great upside, but he's not ready yet. Change for the sake of change is not how this team will move forward.

I think the kid is the future of the franchise as far as D go. I just brought the other guys up because they haven't been sharp. Neither was Lilj, but suggesting he isn't far off considering the performance of the incumbents.

Mid season and I think he will be ready to fill in for an injured player if need be.

 

[zeke]

Rielly - Liljegren
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Borgman/Rosen/Carrick

is really a disgustingly skilled dcorps for a long long time.

 

[mr grieves]

Raises at a similar time? Rielly is signed for 4 more years after this, and if you were referring to Zaitsev, he's signed for 6 more. Gardiner is only signed for 1 after this.

Which raises the question: what can Liljegren be at 20 years old?

Only a handful of defensemen have played in the AHL at 18 or 19 years old.

If we're lucky, he'll turn out like Lindholm, Rielly, or Ristolainen and be productive in top-4 minutes by the age of 20. And you can lose Gardiner.

If we're unlucky, he'll be a bust like Marek Malik, Jon Sigalet, Radek Hamr, or Yan Golubovsky. And you need Gardiner.

If we're somewhere in between... he'll turn out like John Carlson, Julius Honka, Voynov, Robert Hagg and what it seems Oliver Kylington and Bredan Guhle are. That is, guys who might play in the NHL around 20, but don't really establish themselves in a top-4 role until 22 or later.

Odds are on the in between... in which case, what you do with Gardiner is a tricky question.