TSN: Thomas Vanek (50% retained) traded to Florida for 2017 3rd RD pick +Dylan McIlrath

[Henkka]

As we all know, players that are arguably much worse than Vanek got a way better return. I mean this has to be the worst return for a forward with Vanek's Calibre in recent memory unless I'm missing someone.

I know this is a bit hyperbole and maybe even a bit of a tinfoil hat theory. But I mean the return is so God awful and mind-boggling it doesn't make sense, there was reportedly a handful of teams in on Vanek and I'm a 100% sure each and every one of them would increase the offer without hesitating. At 50% retained any team could take him. There was also reports of vanek not wanting to leave aswell. I mean ofcourse it's possible that Holland held out for too long with trading him, but even then the return is too bad. Teams were handing out second round picks like candy and we got a conditional THIRD.

You forgot one important thing.

Teams were handing out best prices for CENTERS AND DEFENCEMEN (even for a crap guy like Smith).

Winger market was surprisingly cheap.

That is more of an indicator of player position. Wingers won't have that much value, as people believe. Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson was another example of it.

Same goes for drafting. Good centers and good defencemen are hardest to find and HAVE MOST VALUE, if you hit a home-run. We are entering on a new era in player value.

Also, Vanek seems to had those negative values on his personality. Special case, which did affect partially on his value.

 

[Winger98]

Every good defender last year was signed by the team that traded for rights. Hopefully Holland is paying attention if he actually has any hopes of landing an impact UFA...

Of course Shattenkirk is a pipedream. Dude is a Ranger unless he falls in love with Washington during this run.

Yeah, I'm not expecting Shattenkirk at all, though he's really the only D I'd have interest in this year. I'm not really interested in Ds who can put up ten points and the ones you can reasonably expect to put up more than that are just too old. Well, unless Holland cleans house and tries icing the best team he can.

Could anyone really blame him if he ditched Sproul and Jensen, signed Markov and Streit and just went the nursing home route? It may not be what we wanted, but our blueline would actually be better.

I would take those deals all day every day. Your odds of hitting a regular NHLer are dismal down there. Your odds of hitting an impact player are even smaller.

Is a 4th rounder for rights to a guy like Shattenkirk common?

as common as the rights being traded. Just going from memory but it's often just a fourth or fifth rounder. I think I've seen some thirds thrown about but probably with the condition the guy is actually signed.

 

[Lampedampe]

You forgot one important thing.

Teams were handing out best prices for CENTERS AND DEFENCEMEN (even for a crap guy like Smith).

Winger market was surprisingly cheap.

That is more of an indicator of player position. Wingers won't have that much value, as people believe. Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson was another example of it.

Same goes for drafting. Good centers and good defencemen are hardest to find and HAVE MOST VALUE, if you hit a home-run. We are entering on a new era in player value.

Also, Vanek seems to had those negative values on his personality. Special case, which did affect partially on his value.

Stålberg, eaves, burrows, hansen even Jurco got better return. Vanek is about 2-3 tiers above those guys. We might end up with that mcclarth guy who is only a roster spot, and no pick for the second best player traded this deadline. Something is not right.

 

[FlashyG]

Stålberg, eaves, burrows, hansen even Jurco got better return. Vanek is about 2-3 tiers above those guys. We might end up with that mcclarth guy who is only a roster spot, and no pick for the second best player traded this deadline. Something is not right.

Vanek has a terrible reputation and plays exclusively in the offensive zone. Almost every time he comes on the ice is when the Wings have an offensive zone faceoff. The only time he's on the ice for a defensive zone faceoff is after an icing when Blashill can't take him off.

It's true he's played well for us, but the market for 1 dimensional wingers isn't a big one and it certainly isn't a costly one.

Eaves received slightly more because he plays in all situations and has scored over 20 goals already this year.

Stalberg, Burrows, Hansen and Jurco all returned slightly less than Vanek did.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Vanek has a terrible reputation and plays exclusively in the offensive zone. Almost every time he comes on the ice is when the Wings have an offensive zone faceoff. The only time he's on the ice for a defensive zone faceoff is after an icing when Blashill can't take him off.

It's true he's played well for us, but the market for 1 dimensional wingers isn't a big one and it certainly isn't a costly one.

Eaves received slightly more because he plays in all situations and has scored over 20 goals already this year.

Stalberg, Burrows, Hansen and Jurco all returned slightly less than Vanek did.

burrows and hansen returned more.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I would take those deals all day every day. Your odds of hitting a regular NHLer are dismal down there. Your odds of hitting an impact player are even smaller.

Is a 4th rounder for rights to a guy like Shattenkirk common?

this was before the tampering period existed but sabres traded a 4th for ehrhoff's rights.

coyotes traded a 5th for goligkoski's rights last year. yandle's rights went for 6th.

i wouldn't pay a dime for shattys rights. what's the point? he wants to hit the market.

 

[chances14]

Something is not right.

vanek has a terrible reputation among other general managers. simple as that

the only reason the wings signed vanek in the first place was because nobody else wanted him

 

[Bench]

vanek has a terrible reputation among other general managers. simple as that

the only reason the wings signed vanek in the first place was because nobody else wanted him

Yeah I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Vanek signed a one year deal for less than $3 million. He wasn't a hot item in July and he's not suddenly a hot item in March.

 

[Lampedampe]

Vanek has a terrible reputation and plays exclusively in the offensive zone. Almost every time he comes on the ice is when the Wings have an offensive zone faceoff. The only time he's on the ice for a defensive zone faceoff is after an icing when Blashill can't take him off.

It's true he's played well for us, but the market for 1 dimensional wingers isn't a big one and it certainly isn't a costly one.

Eaves received slightly more because he plays in all situations and has scored over 20 goals already this year.

Stalberg, Burrows, Hansen and Jurco all returned slightly less than Vanek did.

McIlarth is just a roster spot, didn't he slip through waivers? The 3rd round pick is conditional, thus making the return that Jurco and Stålberg got greater.

 

[Lampedampe]

Yeah I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Vanek signed a one year deal for less than $3 million. He wasn't a hot item in July and he's not suddenly a hot item in March.

I get that he has a bad reputation, thus making his value slightly lower . But the return we got is God awful and doesn't match his performance this season at all. Like I said earlier, a handful of teams were in on Vanek so there was interest.

And I'm sorry, but really? You say that people don't understand his reputation. Do you not understand how the interest for him obviously increases when he goes from 41p in 74 games compared to 38 p in 48 games, I'd also like to add that he's tied for most goals on the team despite missing 10+ games.

 

[Bench]

Yeah, he also missed over 10 games. That doesn't help either, ha.

 

[Lampedampe]

Yeah, he also missed over 10 games. That doesn't help either, ha.

Hehe, well fair enough

 

[chances14]

I get that he has a bad reputation, thus making his value slightly lower . But the return we got is God awful and doesn't match his performance this season at all. Like I said earlier, a handful of teams were in on Vanek so there was interest.

And I'm sorry, but really? You say that people don't understand his reputation. Do you not understand how the interest for him obviously increases when he goes from 41p in 74 games compared to 38 p in 48 games, I'd also like to add that he's tied for most goals on the team despite missing 10+ games.

just because there was a handful of teams interested doesn't mean the price is automatically going to go up

the market simply wasn't there for vanek. it sucks but nothing holland can do about it

 

[Shaman464]

So is it your belief then that Holland was offered more and turned it down? If not how else would he get a team to make a better offer for him?

Smith was worth more than Vanek because of his position alone. If Vanek were a defenceman he would have netted a better pick. Look at the other wingers traded and you'll see that the prices for wingers were lower than previous years.

I don't know how anyone can find fault with Holland's deadline moves. It's like watching a guy go 4 for 4 while hitting for the cycle and complaining because he didn't hit a second homerun.

My belief, based on evidence, is that Holland is prone to blinking first. He is prone to panicking. Look at his signing players after he strikes out in UFAs. I think had he waited to closer to the actual deadline he could have at least gotten as good a deal, if not better.

 

[chances14]

My belief, based on evidence, is that Holland is prone to blinking first. He is prone to panicking. Look at his signing players after he strikes out in UFAs. I think had he waited to closer to the actual deadline he could have at least gotten as good a deal, if not better.

the arizona gm tried the same thing with vrbata and ended up getting nothing for him. teams didn't even want to give up a 2nd round pick for him

 

[Henkka]

There has to be a conspiracy somewhere always. It can't be what Holland said.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/03/red_wings_ken_holland_on_thoma.html

"People around the league knew what I was trying to accomplish and we got the very best offers we could. It wasn't due to timing. It's not like I was sitting on something four days ago hoping for better and I lost that. What I got today was the very best offer that was offered to us."

"My goal going into this trade deadline with where we are in the standings was to get as many picks as possible," Holland said. "At the end of the day we got the best we could in every deal. We're happy we were able to stockpile picks. It allows our scouts to have lots of swings at the plate in June."

That's about it, and time get over it.

 

[Bench]

the arizona gm tried the same thing with vrbata and ended up getting nothing for him. teams didn't even want to give up a 2nd round pick for him

Exactly.

If anyone is paying attention, they know I'm very unhappy with Holland's job performance. But this deadline, particularly the return on Vanek, is not an example of a negative we can hold against him.

To suggest otherwise distracts from the legitimate errors he's willfully manufactured.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

There has to be a conspiracy somewhere always. It can't be what Holland said.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/03/red_wings_ken_holland_on_thoma.html



That's about it, and time get over it.

There also isn't the hey we would have beat that stuff that generally circulates when a player truly goes for well below market value. Vanek wasn't worth as much as we hoped. I think that is wrong and for a second round pick some contender really missed that chance. Assuming Florida does get in it could prove a damaging choice for someone.

The good news is, it looks like we can talk to him this summer and probably not at an outrageous number if we want to do that.

 

[Lampedampe]

There has to be a conspiracy somewhere always. It can't be what Holland said.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/03/red_wings_ken_holland_on_thoma.html



That's about it, and time get over it.

For some reason i thought the condition on the pick was that if Panthers make it we get their 3rd round pick, if they don't make the play-off we don't get a pick at all.

Uhm, well this changes the perspective of things for me atleast. Considering that the panthers have a good chance of making the play-offs especially with Vanek. Which means that we're most likely getting a 'late 2nd rounder', their 3rd round pick will surley be no. 63. Which would be the same as getting a 2nd rounder from a contender.

Well it's not as bad as i thought then, but still not optimal i suppose. A better prospect would've been ideal, but i suppose it works anyway and maybe holland wanted McIlarth.

I should do more research before getting upset about something

 

[Frk It]

Exactly.

If anyone is paying attention, they know I'm very unhappy with Holland's job performance. But this deadline, particularly the return on Vanek, is not an example of a negative we can hold against him.

To suggest otherwise distracts from the legitimate errors he's willfully manufactured.

Yup, same thing with me. I'm happy with the 3 trades he made these last few weeks, and while I had hoped for more with Vanek I don't fault him there. I think he got the best he could in that situation.

 

[Filppula]

Vanek has 1 goal in 5 games with Florida, and is -7. The Panthers have lost 5 straight since his arrival.

I guess the 3rd is going to be Florida's.

 

[Hadoop]

Vanek has 1 goal in 5 games with Florida, and is -7. The Panthers have lost 5 straight since his arrival.

I guess the 3rd is going to be Florida's.

Panthers are now 7 pts out of the playoffs, so I would agree with this

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Vanek has 1 goal in 5 games with Florida, and is -7. The Panthers have lost 5 straight since his arrival.

I guess the 3rd is going to be Florida's.

On the flip side, he'll be available for cheap in the summer

 

[Filppula]

On the flip side, he'll be available for cheap in the summer

He played under 12 mins last night. I hope he comes back on a short term deal.

 

[Birko19]

Is he getting top-6 and pp time? If not then such results are expected.