Player Discussion Thomas Chabot (D) Extended 8 years 8M AAV

[Icelevel]

Use the ignore button people. It’s the best way to deal with these types.

 

[MoreGore]

They did not have to sign them to those contracts. You want to give out bigger contracts when the team has already proved it can win in the playoffs. You could make an exception if you think some player is HOF but generally paying out early just hurts the team.

The Sens have good players but all teams in the bottom 10 do. Not a single team who had a top 10 pick in the draft even traded down for insurance reasons from being wrong. It is sooo risky but granted there is risks when you trade down too.

I think the general consensus is that they are not playing to their talent level as they should be a playoff team, though the Atlantic is tough.

I would say Norris and Chabot are a touch over paid, the rest are on good contracts.

 

[inthewings]

The majority of Sens fans I have ever talked to think the Tim Stützle contract is good or great when common sense should show it is not.

If the Sens were a sure thing cup contender or he was a HOF player calling that contract good or great would be WAY more understandable.

The Karl trade with the sharks the Sens robbed them. That was a great trade for the Sens. This one Sens fan I talked to said every Sens fan he talked with about it at the time thought the the Sens GM was a fool for doing that trade. Karl was obviously really loved by Sens fans but if what that sens fan told me is true it shows how some fans value feelings over logic. I am obviously not a fan of your last GM but that trade was fantastic for the sens.

Not reading any of this, but I’m happy for you. Or sorry that happened.

 

[Crosside]

I feel Chabot gonna play tomorrow. Book it

 

[Dan 40 USA]

Buzz out troll.

I just checked your history, had 2 initial posts, then everyone since has been in one Stutzle thread and now in this forum.

For Sens fans, this is the dummy that said this in the Stutzle thread, and went on and on about it.

Tim Stützle costs more than 9 2nd round picks that is factual and not trolling when I say that.

You just created the account to troll Sens.

A 2nd round pick costs under 1 mill a year. If you were decent at drafting that is dirt cheap compared to paying super high contracts and not making the playoffs anyway.

Had the Sens traded some of these players that have big contracts away instead of giving them those extensions the Sens could have more depth to be better today.

If the Sens had an extra 8 mill of cap room they could spend on anything they could easily trade it for 1 or more 2nd round picks each season.

The wings traded for Alex DeBrincat and the sens got

Dominik Kubalik
Donovan Sebrango
2024 1st round pick (DET) [Conditional]*
2024 4th round pick (DET)

and the wings are not good enough to be a cup contender anyway. It is straight up insane that det gave the sens that much AND paid Alex 7.8 mill a year.

This was a good trade for the Sens and I really like Alex DeBrincat as a player. On a non playoff team he will never be worth that. If the Wings win in the playoffs I can admit I was wrong but that trade looks horrible for the wings.

People that troll do not usually have some compliments for who they are trolling.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

Dude, no wants to listen to your 'I told you so' posts. Just go away. If Sens fans were on your case then you think we're going to be ok with it now for some reason? On our board no less?

My intentions were always good though. It was never my intention to offend any of you and I feel that way now too. Do not take it personally. If you do not agree with what I say that is cool.

 

[Agent Zub]

My intentions were always good though. It was never my intention to offend any of you and I feel that way now too. Do not take it personally. If you do not agree with what I say that is cool.

you have no idea what you're talking about.

good intentions or not.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

I think the general consensus is that they are not playing to their talent level as they should be a playoff team, though the Atlantic is tough.

I would say Norris and Chabot are a touch over paid, the rest are on good contracts.

Paying ANY player over 3 mill a year when you not a playoff team generally costs your own team prospects in some ways. There is always exceptions like when teams trade some more expensive players for decent value but that is generally true.

The Sens have some good players but all of the bottom 10 teams do. The goal is to get the max value for every cap dollar you spend but many bottom 10 teams try to win way too soon.

Alex DeBrincat , Johnny Hockey and Tomáš Hertl as 3 examples all look like bad contracts that hurt the very teams they are supposed to help. All 3 are good players but on non playoff teams they not worth it. The overall team has to be good enough for them to even matter.

I hope the Sens new GM fixes your problems.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

you have no idea what you're talking about.

good intentions or not.

If you going to call me out you should tell me what I am saying you disagree with and why.

If you not willingly to do that it sounds like you are babbling even if you are not. This is the 2nd time you have done this and if you disagree so strongly why not prove to me you are right?

 

[DrEasy]

A 2nd round pick costs under 1 mill a year. If you were decent at drafting that is dirt cheap compared to paying super high contracts and not making the playoffs anyway.

Had the Sens traded some of these players that have big contracts away instead of giving them those extensions the Sens could have more depth to be better today.

If the Sens had an extra 8 mill of cap room they could spend on anything they could easily trade it for 1 or more 2nd round picks each season.

The wings traded for Alex DeBrincat and the sens got

Dominik Kubalik
Donovan Sebrango
2024 1st round pick (DET) [Conditional]*
2024 4th round pick (DET)

and the wings are not good enough to be a cup contender anyway. It is straight up insane that det gave the sens that much AND paid Alex 7.8 mill a year.

This was a good trade for the Sens and I really like Alex DeBrincat as a player. On a non playoff team he will never be worth that. If the Wings win in the playoffs I can admit I was wrong but that trade looks horrible for the wings.

People that troll do not usually have some compliments for who they are trolling.

Compared to what the Sens gave up to obtain DeBrincat, the Red Wings did great actually, and the deal he signed with them has a lot of surplus value.

I understand your argument that when you're not a playoff team you should not allocate your resources and assets to players that won't push you over the edge yet, but you can't exclude the fact that teams are supposed to compete and they're supposed to keep the fans engaged (if you want to be cynical about it, to extract $$$ from fans and TV rights).

The Red Wings still have a good shot at making the playoffs this year, and it's thanks to some of the signings and trades they made this off-season. Just one round of playoffs might financially make the spending worth it. Even just playing meaningful hockey till the last month of the regular season alone might be worth it, but none of us have the $$$ numbers to really know.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

Compared to what the Sens gave up to obtain DeBrincat, the Red Wings did great actually, and the deal he signed with them has a lot of surplus value.

I understand your argument that when you're not a playoff team you should not allocate your resources and assets to players that won't push you over the edge yet, but you can't exclude the fact that teams are supposed to compete and they're supposed to keep the fans engaged (if you want to be cynical about it, to extract $$$ from fans and TV rights).

The Red Wings still have a good shot at making the playoffs this year, and it's thanks to some of the signings and trades they made this off-season. Just one round of playoffs might financially make the spending worth it. Even just playing meaningful hockey till the last month of the regular season alone might be worth it, but none of us have the $$$ numbers to really know.

What both teams traded to get Alex was too much being non playoff teams.

If an owner cares more about selling tickets and getting fans to watch their games on tv over winning a cup that would be sad but as you say keeping the fans engaged helps.

I heard the sharks owner told their new GM that he could not rebuild the team and he wanted a winner as soon as possible. If that kind of stuff is really told to GM's I could get why some do trades and contracts I view as bad just hoping to please the owner and fans even if it does not lead to playoff wins.

I acknowledge that each owner and GM's situation is different. The Buff owner is known for allegedly being cheap and the Yotes were run very different from most teams based on the cap in the past. They would allegedly trade for players who have a cap value of a certain higher amount but the owner would have to pay the player less than that amount in cash. Shea Weber was one of those contracts allegedly.

I wish the wings well but I would have never traded that much for Alex and paid him that unless I thought winning in the playoffs was for certain. If they win even 1 round in the playoffs I will give them their due. Making the playoffs and losing is too low of a bar for what they did IMO but at least their fans will get some good reg season games.

 

[Agent Zub]

If you going to call me out you should tell me what I am saying you disagree with and why.

If you not willingly to do that it sounds like you are babbling even if you are not. This is the 2nd time you have done this and if you disagree so strongly why not prove to me you are right?

you think a 90 point and still improving 22 year old center signed for 8.3 mill through his prime is a bad contract.

like what am i even supposed to say that? nothing i could say to you would convince you.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

you think a 90 point and still improving 22 year old center signed for 8.3 mill through his prime is a bad contract.

like what am i even supposed to say that? nothing i could say to you would convince you.

If you not a legit cup contender it actually hurts your team to pay him that because you could trade his 8.3 mill each year for new prospects who can help the team.

A GM / head scout combo who were good could improve the sens more doing that vs keeping him.

Look at the Timo Meier trade as an example. He was a B grade player for the sharks but instead of paying him that new contract the devils did they traded him for multiple cheaper prospects. One of them already is about as good as Timo.

Even if he was a guaranteed point a game player for the sharks / devils he still would not be worth 8.8 mill on the sharks since they not a legit cup contender. It would just be wasting cap room.

If the Sens never win 2 rounds or more in the playoffs in the whole time Tim Stützle is there would you still say he was worth his contract?

Cause if you say yes it implies you are more a Tim Stützle fan than caring about the sens whole team winning.

 

[Dionysus]

If you want to come in and troll, a clear and concise argument helps. Sens fans on here are much more critical and knowledgeable in the specific issues plaguing this team than some random know it all.

We can slag this team and it's construction very well ourselves thanks.

 

[Dionysus]

If

If you not a legit cup contender it actually hurts your team to pay him that because you could trade his 8.3 mill each year for new prospects who can help the team.

A GM / head scout combo who were good could improve the sens more doing that vs keeping him.

Look at the Timo Meier trade as an example. He was a B grade player for the sharks but instead of paying him that new contract the devils did they traded him for multiple cheaper prospects. One of them already is about as good as Timo.

Even if he was a guaranteed point a game player for the sharks / devils he still would not be worth 8.8 mill on the sharks since they not a legit cup contender. It would just be wasting cap room.

If the Sens never win 2 rounds or more in the playoffs in the whole time Tim Stützle is there would you still say he was worth his contract?

Cause if you say yes it implies you are more a Tim Stützle fan than caring about the sens whole team winning.

Pretty sure a 21 year old Tim Stützle signed at 8.3 for 7 more seasons can be traded for loads of prospects. He has plenty of value.

There is no point here. Some sort of weird negative point, you don't sign your young stars coming off their ELC to long-term contracts? Are you arguing for bridge contracts? Trading 21 year old NHL stars for picks?

Timo Meier was traded as a 26 year old on a team starting its teardown. Not comparable players or situations. Lot of nonsense.

 

[Agent Zub]

If you not a legit cup contender it actually hurts your team to pay him that because you could trade his 8.3 mill each year for new prospects who can help the team.

A GM / head scout combo who were good could improve the sens more doing that vs keeping him.

Look at the Timo Meier trade as an example. He was a B grade player for the sharks but instead of paying him that new contract the devils did they traded him for multiple cheaper prospects. One of them already is about as good as Timo.

Even if he was a guaranteed point a game player for the sharks / devils he still would not be worth 8.8 mill on the sharks since they not a legit cup contender. It would just be wasting cap room.

If the Sens never win 2 rounds or more in the playoffs in the whole time Tim Stützle is there would you still say he was worth his contract?

Cause if you say yes it implies you are more a Tim Stützle fan than caring about the sens whole team winning.

you have no idea what you're talking about lol.

legit saying that stutzle is useless to us at 8 mill because we aren't a contender so we need to trade our 22 year old 90 pointer for unestablished prospects and cap because they will help so much to become a contender, instead of you know the elite talent we already have.

im not going to try and convince you any further than this because this is from the start such a stupid conversation.

like trying to convince a flat earther. why would you even try? id be an idiot to try.

 

[Dionysus]

you have no idea what you're talking about lol.

legit saying that stutzle is useless to us at 8 mill because we aren't a contender so we need to trade our 22 year old 90 point for unestablished prospects and cap because they will help so much to become a contender, instead of you know the elite talent we already have.

im not going to try and convince you any further than this because is from the start such a stupid conversation.

like trying to convince a flat earther. why would you even try? id be an idiot to try.

Trying to make me agree with you, he's really just bringing Sens fans together. Holiday spirit on that guy is through the roof.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

If you want to come in and troll, a clear and concise argument helps. Sens fans on here are much more critical and knowledgeable in the specific issues plaguing this team than some random know it all.

We can slag this team and it's construction very well ourselves thanks.

That is a lie, most sens fans I have talked to on here have no concept of some of what I have brought up. Most NHL fans in general do not so it is not personal.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

If

Pretty sure a 21 year old Tim Stützle signed at 8.3 for 7 more seasons can be traded for loads of prospects. He has plenty of value.

There is no point here. Some sort of weird negative point, you don't sign your young stars coming off their ELC to long-term contracts? Are you arguing for bridge contracts? Trading 21 year old NHL stars for picks?

Timo Meier was traded as a 26 year old on a team starting its teardown. Not comparable players or situations. Lot of nonsense.

You are not going to trade him though so that is irrelevant. That you could trade him for something good would only apply if you were going to do that which you are not.

If the Oilers knew in advance they were never winning with McDavid and Leon they would obviously have been better off trading them for top dollar and using their cap to make the overall team better. The Oilers could have traded McDavid before and intentionally did not and now he can leave them with no compensation at the end of his contract. At least that will not apply to Stützle since you can trade him the whole time but if you never do it you do not get those benefits.

This is not advanced math. The Flames refused to trade Johnny Hockey at the deadline when it was obvious to the blind it was in the teams long term best interest. They could have got a ton for Johnny and still refused and he left anyway.

You do not get the benefit of being a cup contender with Stützle and you do not get the benefit of the compensation of what others will trade you for him so you are just wasting 8.3 mill on him.

Explain what is the benefit to him if you do neither and every expensive sens player?

 

[Dan 40 USA]

you have no idea what you're talking about lol.

legit saying that stutzle is useless to us at 8 mill because we aren't a contender so we need to trade our 22 year old 90 pointer for unestablished prospects and cap because they will help so much to become a contender, instead of you know the elite talent we already have.

im not going to try and convince you any further than this because this is from the start such a stupid conversation.

like trying to convince a flat earther. why would you even try? id be an idiot to try.

If you not a legit contender he is useless unless you trade him. That applies to all your expensive contracts. If you do not trade them there is no point and it hurts the team. You not going to trade him so whatever great amount another team would give you is not a point you can make.

Having elite players means nothing if you not a contender and you do not trade them. Say that back to yourself as many times as it takes. When the Flames refused to trade Johnny Hockey and got nothing back is an example of that. They could have traded him and they refused to. The Oilers could get nothing for McDavid too because of his no trade clause when before they could have got a lot.

It is cool to think positive and hope the sens will be a contender soon but if it does not happen you are hurting yourself with no real benefit. Your core will stay about the same like the Leafs and Oilers and you will be stuck like they are going nowhere unless they magically get hot in the playoffs which is something you don't do.

The math of your situation is really simple.

 

[Agent Zub]

If you not a legit contender he is useless unless you trade him. That applies to all your expensive contracts. If you do not trade them there is no point and it hurts the team. You not going to trade him so whatever great amount another team would give you is not a point you can make.

Having elite players means nothing if you not a contender and you do not trade them. Say that back to yourself as many times as it takes. When the Flames refused to trade Johnny Hockey and got nothing back is an example of that. They could have traded him and they refused to. The Oilers could get nothing for McDavid too because of his no trade clause when before they could have got a lot.

It is cool to think positive and hope the sens will be a contender soon but if it does not happen you are hurting yourself with no real benefit. Your core will stay about the same like the Leafs and Oilers and you will be stuck like they are going nowhere unless they magically get hot in the playoffs which is something you don't do.

The math of your situation is really simple.

no one could actually believe what you're saying.

so you must be a troll account. and i checked your post history, 99 percent of your posts are about Stutzle's contract. that is crazy.

it is really pathetic to make an account just to troll.

good job on ruining the discussion of this thread to stroke your own ego though.

 

[Dan 40 USA]

no one could actually believe what you're saying.

so you must be a troll account. and i checked your post history, 99 percent of your posts are about Stutzle's contract. that is crazy.

it is really pathetic to make an account just to troll.

good job on ruining the discussion of this thread to stroke your own ego though.

How is telling you facts trolling?

You just changed the subject and are insulting me because you have no counter point. I find that sad.

 

[Agent Zub]

How is telling you facts trolling?

You just changed the subject and are insulting me because you have no counter point. I find that sad.

facts in crazy land sure.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Chabot thread.

Hopefully we get Chabot back for Sunday's game.

 

[Lshap]

Stop bickering and move on.