News Article: THN: Pre Season look at the Winnipeg Jets
- Thread starter sully1410
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bigplay41*
Registered User
truck
Registered User
I don't buy 7th in the central, but I agree with most of the commentary.
IF the team will make any major gains it will be on the back of Scheifele and Kaner. We have no clue how they will look.
IF the team will make any major gains it will be on the back of Scheifele and Kaner. We have no clue how they will look.
SensibleGuy
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2011
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I've heard one or two of the THN guys interviewed on 1290 since this article came out and the impression I got is basically that - when it comes to the Jets - nothing positive is going to happen this season. Pavs is going to be terrible. Nobody is going to improve over previous seasons. None of the (admittedly slight) roster moves Chevy has made are going to pay off at all. All our defencemen are going to fall to injury. I guess its all valid points, but I'm not so sure they seem to be as hard on other teams. One of the guys also referred to the fact that Brian Little is not a first line center "even though he's being paid like one." Really?
sully1410
#EggosForEleven
Those guys aren't real sports journalists...even though they are paid like one...
BURN!
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
He's the 29th ranked C over the last two seasons, and gets paid like a decent 2nd line C.
But hey, why let silly things like facts get in the way of a good narrative.
THN predictions are done with all the sophistication of the team overall ratings in NHL 14. In other words, it's meaningless.
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Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
Aside from that we are all Jets fans and as such are predisposed to disagree with critical analysis of our team, I only take issue with that the analysis in this THN piece is a thumbnail view, one that appears to be really lazily done.
In the video, a main complaint from the THN guys is that the core has been rewarded with big dollars without having ever accomplished anything; that ignores that the core is fairly young, that the core weren't the problem, but rather, it was the lack of depth behind them that was the issue.
I'm kind of on the fence this year and see them on the playoff bubble this season, but also do see a team likely to be trending upward going forward. They've put together a string of strong drafts that will begin to show benefits over the coming few years. They've also stacked up the competition at forward below the top forward line this year and that was the issue; they were weak behind LLW & Kane. Yet look at them now...
http://jets.nhl.com/club/roster.htm
While not stacked, there now exists a far heftier amount of competition for the #5 through #12 forward spots, at least versus the past few years. Competition is a good thing. I'm not convinced about their current mix both on D and in goal, but a better overall game of defensive hockey might alleviate that a bit if they could tighten things up a bit this year. Chevy and Zinger et al have done a good job of working with what they've been given to work with thus far, in my view. Barring serious injury issues, I can easily see them pushing hard for a playoff berth this season.
In the video, a main complaint from the THN guys is that the core has been rewarded with big dollars without having ever accomplished anything; that ignores that the core is fairly young, that the core weren't the problem, but rather, it was the lack of depth behind them that was the issue.
I'm kind of on the fence this year and see them on the playoff bubble this season, but also do see a team likely to be trending upward going forward. They've put together a string of strong drafts that will begin to show benefits over the coming few years. They've also stacked up the competition at forward below the top forward line this year and that was the issue; they were weak behind LLW & Kane. Yet look at them now...
http://jets.nhl.com/club/roster.htm
While not stacked, there now exists a far heftier amount of competition for the #5 through #12 forward spots, at least versus the past few years. Competition is a good thing. I'm not convinced about their current mix both on D and in goal, but a better overall game of defensive hockey might alleviate that a bit if they could tighten things up a bit this year. Chevy and Zinger et al have done a good job of working with what they've been given to work with thus far, in my view. Barring serious injury issues, I can easily see them pushing hard for a playoff berth this season.
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SensibleGuy
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2011
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yeah exactly. I mean I don't really care what line you think Little should be on - if you are a sports journalist writing an article you should try and get yr facts straight. It ends up sounding like all they are doing is spewing out the un-informed criticisms about the Jets that they've read on a forum...
Mud Turtle
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2013
- 8,196
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Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Well said, Gump.
One thing for which I will give THN some kudos, they've acknowledged how much the Jets goaltending has held them back. That's a fact that few in the local media will readily acknowledge, so good on them.
Beyond that, their prediction seems to be founded on some half-baked assumptions. Like you said, failing to acknowledge that the core hasn't really been the problem, and moreover, that LLW rank among the better first line units in the NHL. It's like a pastiche of uninformed assumptions that you would see from fans that only pay cursory attention to the Jets.
And their point of emphasis that this franchise has a history of collapsing down the stretch: well no ****, Sherlock.
Channelcat
Unhinged user
I think its a fairly unbiased report. I'm not sure how people can take issue with it. Considering this....
KEY DEPARTURES: Nik Antropov, Antti Miettinen, Kyle Wellwood, Alexander Burmistrov, Mike Santorelli, Derek Meech.
KEY ADDITIONS: Devin Setoguchi, Michael Frolik, Matt Halischuk, Adam Pardy.
What is there to be positive about? We are playing in a tougher division, we still don't really have a number 1 line or a number 1 goaltender. I realize that we are building through the draft and I think that's a wise approach, but its going to be a while yet before this is a playoff contender.
KEY DEPARTURES: Nik Antropov, Antti Miettinen, Kyle Wellwood, Alexander Burmistrov, Mike Santorelli, Derek Meech.
KEY ADDITIONS: Devin Setoguchi, Michael Frolik, Matt Halischuk, Adam Pardy.
What is there to be positive about? We are playing in a tougher division, we still don't really have a number 1 line or a number 1 goaltender. I realize that we are building through the draft and I think that's a wise approach, but its going to be a while yet before this is a playoff contender.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/8/31/4678824/nhl-fenwick-close-standings
^ I like this... of course this doesn't take goaltending in account
^ I like this... of course this doesn't take goaltending in account
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Now having said that, if I'm going to tear down THN's predictions, I should probably offer up a prediction of my own!
I believe the Jets will be a 90 point team this year. That's likely just short of making the playoffs, and I believe this team is likely just short of being playoff calibre.
I believe the Jets will be a 90 point team this year. That's likely just short of making the playoffs, and I believe this team is likely just short of being playoff calibre.
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
Not sure how any of those players can truly be considered as key departures, considering how few of them have since found comparable NHL employment.
If anything, I think their deletions from the roster could better be termed as planned obsolescence.
CorgisPer60
Barking at the net
You act like those key departures are what's going to hold the Jets back this year. You listed the players who had the least impact on the Jets last year while failing to list the one player who was actually good for the Jets.
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Bolded is just wrong. I'll be polite and leave it at that.
Beyond that, while I agree with the gist of your post, I think most are taking exception to the general sloppiness of the prediction article.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
If you think Antropov or Wellwood would not have been employed by a NHL team this season if the cap wasn't there then you are probably fooling yourself.
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
They obviously weren't in the plans here though and that was kind of the point; if they were then they would have been offered deals here. Not much of a loss as such, which is why I referred to their departures as planned obsolescence. Wellwood has skills but also lacks foot speed, same with Antro. Meh.
AndersUlfBobby
Sec 6A Row 29 Seat 1
I don't buy the fact that the Jets didn't make any big moves over the off-season that they can't move up the standings. Case in point are the 1984-85 Jets 1.0. That year they improved 23 points and finished in second in the toughest division in the NHL at the time.
The only thing that the Jets 1.0 did that off season was trade Lucien DeBlois for Perry Turnbull and Dave Ellett joined them out of college.
Big moves are not always the answer. It just takes a team to get it's **** together.
The only thing that the Jets 1.0 did that off season was trade Lucien DeBlois for Perry Turnbull and Dave Ellett joined them out of college.
Big moves are not always the answer. It just takes a team to get it's **** together.
Skidooboy
Registered User
Thos departures are very "key" having those guys depart ( except maybe Nik the Stick if we had got him super cheap) will be a key to our success!
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
That would be better logic and I can agree to that.
I think the loss of those two guys isn't a net positive just by subtraction (since they are better than some who remain on the team), but I agree there is a possibility that Frolik + Setoguchi could negate that loss.
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I'm not sure that was really a meltdown at the end of the season during the lockout. A lot of other teams played some stellar hockey and just didn't lose. If the Jets melted down last year, it was the week they played the Caps twice.
Also agree with other comments regarding LLW-Kane. Those are the main pieces of the roster, along with the D core (Enstrom extension, Bogo long term). How are those bad signings? Those are the core of the team and not the problem that caused Jets to lose games. NOT re-signing a bunch of 3rd/4th line players is suddenly a bad idea? Because they're at such a premium?
I'd love to have Little playing as a second line center but between the factors of a lower cap, a limited FA market and the sum being greater than the whole of its parts, I'm ok with Little playing first line. Do I think he's paid too much? Yeah, but relative to other first line centers in the NHL he's being paid 2nd line money even though many think it's too much. Not for his current role on the team.
Pavs needs to improve. So to does Noel's management of his goaltending tandem. That shouldn't be a secret as we've seen two years of the same management style and it hasn't worked. Give Montoya the back or front end of the doubles and some other games as well. Pavy learns to play with less games or we find someone else because even though he seems to believe he plays better with more games the numbers seem to show otherwise.
Prediction for the season? Injury dependent coupled with what happens with Scheifele/Jokinen. One of the two needs to step up - if one does then we're in much better shape. If neither does, then we're the same as last year with LLW-Kane providing our scoring and that's not enough, SE or Central matters not.
Blues
Hawks
Stars
Jets
Wild
Avs
Preds
The bottom five are a complete and utter guess. Preds are like us, it depends if the whole outperforms the sum of the parts and Rinne has a better season. Avs need goaltending and defense, otherwise they're the central division Oilers. Wild don't seem to have the full sum of their parts and their goaltending can be spectacular, or not. They seem a lot like Winnipeg. Dallas lots of moves and don't know how that will add up, might be really good. Hawks and Blues are obvious, solid choices.
Also agree with other comments regarding LLW-Kane. Those are the main pieces of the roster, along with the D core (Enstrom extension, Bogo long term). How are those bad signings? Those are the core of the team and not the problem that caused Jets to lose games. NOT re-signing a bunch of 3rd/4th line players is suddenly a bad idea? Because they're at such a premium?
I'd love to have Little playing as a second line center but between the factors of a lower cap, a limited FA market and the sum being greater than the whole of its parts, I'm ok with Little playing first line. Do I think he's paid too much? Yeah, but relative to other first line centers in the NHL he's being paid 2nd line money even though many think it's too much. Not for his current role on the team.
Pavs needs to improve. So to does Noel's management of his goaltending tandem. That shouldn't be a secret as we've seen two years of the same management style and it hasn't worked. Give Montoya the back or front end of the doubles and some other games as well. Pavy learns to play with less games or we find someone else because even though he seems to believe he plays better with more games the numbers seem to show otherwise.
Prediction for the season? Injury dependent coupled with what happens with Scheifele/Jokinen. One of the two needs to step up - if one does then we're in much better shape. If neither does, then we're the same as last year with LLW-Kane providing our scoring and that's not enough, SE or Central matters not.
Blues
Hawks
Stars
Jets
Wild
Avs
Preds
The bottom five are a complete and utter guess. Preds are like us, it depends if the whole outperforms the sum of the parts and Rinne has a better season. Avs need goaltending and defense, otherwise they're the central division Oilers. Wild don't seem to have the full sum of their parts and their goaltending can be spectacular, or not. They seem a lot like Winnipeg. Dallas lots of moves and don't know how that will add up, might be really good. Hawks and Blues are obvious, solid choices.
I can't take anyone seriously who is trying to build a case against the Jets by claiming we are weaker by losing Derek Meech, Antti Miettinen and Mike Santorelli.
Surely even the most negative poster realizes that Michael Frolik and Devin Setoguchi >> Alexander Burmistrov and Kyle Wellwood? Perhaps Burmi will end up being great, but for the player he is right now, we have upgraded on goal scoring, maturity, and defensive ability.
Yes, there are still HUGE question marks wrt goaltending, and whether our big 3 D can stay healthy. Those are REAL factors that will determine where we place this year, but the argument you are trying to make is ridiculous at best.
PS: Saying LLW is not a legit first line is rubbish.
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