This is a Bad Hockey Team 2017-18

[Kaapodonna]

@Machinehead You can't force this thread bruh, it has to flow from your finger tips! lol

 

[True Blue]

Carey is the new Glass.

Newest whipping boy. I will say that the 4th line last night looked AHL level.

The team has flaws. AV's system has flaws. Neither the team nor AV are being bailed out by Henke.

 

[nyr2k2]

4 games in. We've had some good and bad starts over the past few years that weren't indicative of where we'd end up. Obviously these first few games have sucked and AV (who I always defend) continues to make poor choices, but I'm not really worried yet. Just hang in there for another few weeks if you can.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't know if 'bad' is the right word but so far I've been very underwhelmed.

Henrik's been up and down. Apart from the Zibanejad line the other lines have not played great. Staal's been better than expected but he's still a limited player making too much.

Looking at Nash--yeah he seems to be playing very well and getting good chances but this snakebit stuff is a tape loop that has been going on for years now. Might as well just say that his finishing skills have been compromised. He's simply not nearly the player he was. Hayes, Vesey, Desharnais, Grabner aren't scoring and a lot of shoot yourself in the foot mistakes from the individual d-men.

The power play has been good. The penalty killing not very good. Zibanejad has scored half of our goals. That's too much onus on one player.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Frankly, if Hayes continues to play with his head up his ass, and Vesey stagnates, this team no longer has forward depth. And this idea that Staal is off to a good start, well, in the two games I've watched (COL and last night), I've seen no evidence of this being the case, other than he's not the abortion he was in the preseason, let alone last year. Fast returning helps the 4th line, especially if he's there with Grabner and DD. A middle six forward is needed to either help Hayes and Vesey , or push Nash off the 2nd line. It's still early, but, many of the issues that were cited as reasons that could derail this season are already rearing their ugly heads. 'Failing for Dahlin' or 'Suck for Svechnikov'?

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Won't get into whether or not this team is good or bad, but I want to address the "this team finally has a first line" comments.

It's really concerning how some people here seem to have their memories erased at the start of every season. When has a line consistently stayed together for this team in the past 10 years? Jagr - Straka - Nylander was the last true first line we have had.

Our center is notorious league-wide for taking weeks off at a time, one winger is notorious for disappearing for long stretches (although he's improved here, I'll give him that), and the other winger is an unproven sophomore who has played half of an NHL season. To add onto all of this, we have a coach that has severe ADD and doesn't input any logic when creating lines and D pairings.

I will tell you right now that this "first line" is not going to last, and that if it seems too good to be true, it usually is. This line was just as dynamite last season, and we literally never saw it again after the 5th game of the season, for various reason. People are setting themselves up for serious frustration.

 

[Ori]

It`s too early for this - if your prediction is that accurate this topic would be created before the season started.
Too many players are not ready for a new season in Rangers town - that much is obvious to me.

 

[JimmyG89]

So, we upgraded the defense (re-sign Smith, sign Shatty, trade for Tony D) at the impact of our center depth (Stepan trade, Lindberg ED) and the coach decides to not play two of the upgraded defenders and in their place, has played two guys that shouldn't be on the roster any longer. In fact, we have at least one better defender in Hartford (Pionk) than Holden and Kampfer. The defensive upgrades could have mitigated the lack of C depth, but it's not being played that way.

It is embarrassing. This cannot continue to happen. The team actually isn't bad. They need a middle 6 center to move Miller back to wing, but we really do not have the assets to acquire one from a team right now. Duchene would be a killer add to this roster, but we don't have the pieces to get him that we can actually give up.

If Shipachyov is not able to get into Vegas' lineup soon, they need to talk to them. He's ideally what they need and with an expansion team, that can use any kind of asset in return for a player, we wouldn't be pigeon-holed into filling a need. They need everything.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Newest whipping boy. I will say that the 4th line last night looked AHL level.

The team has flaws. AV's system has flaws. Neither the team nor AV are being bailed out by Henke.

Then how did we get 1 win?

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

The forward depth the Rangers have is an abomination, wrong D-men being played in a bad system. Desharnais is barely NHL caliber, Carey isn't. Vesey himself is a pile of garbage. He does nothing well. Bad passer, nothing on the boards, doesn't generate shots, doesn't suppress them. Cracknell is decent but no game changer. Fast is missed big time on that 4th line. Staal is being played top pair. Holden and Kampfer are in. Lots of things need to change with this team, and i'm still on the fire AV wagon, because it's time that he's fired. He's gotten enough chances.

 

[True Blue]

Then how did we get 1 win?

I am looking at the macro level, not game by game.

 

[haveandare]

As much as I am a "fire AV" guy, I dont even think this is his fault now. This roster is just kind of bad. The only 2 things that arent trash right now are Zibs and the PP (which are sort of one in the same).

I think he's doing an alright job assuming that the logic behind the Smith and DeAngelo benchings is what is most logical - that ADA made a few careless moves and Smith just hasn't been right yet, and right now is the best time to drill into them what they need to do to make the team successful while there's as little at stake as there will ever be.

I know everyone, myself included, wants the season to start on a roll and be that satisfying hockey that we missed all summer, but in reality few games mean less than these ones do. If you need to sit someone to make a point, now's the time.

If he honest to god thinks he's icing his best lineup in the big scheme of things with Kampfer and Holden, that's another problem all together, but that remains to be seen. Let's see when ADA and Smith get back in and how they do. And, personnel decisions aside, still trying to make this stupid man d work is really silly, even with a more mobile group. He thinks he's found this great secret, but sometimes everyone else does the same thing not because they're missing something, but because that thing is obviously the best option.

I think a lot of the pain we're seeing in a lot of obviously good players just not having it going yet. I'm not super happy with it but like I said, this is the time for that king of stuff when the games mean as little as ever. I don't expect Zucc, Miller, Nash, Hayes, Grab – really every forward not on the KZB line – to suck like this all year long, or even most of the season. I don't think we'll ever have a super tight shut down d group with these guys, but I think we can force and win track meets with most teams once everyone is playing at least average.

The main plus so far Imo is that Buch looks like he clearly took the next step he needed to. The importance of that can't be overstated. Mika also looks like he's worked on his shot accuracy, which was lacking previously, but part of his success so far has been Buch setting him up with a whole bunch of slam dunks. PP looks a lot better but I'm skeptical at how sustainable it'll be once other teams catch on. Shattenkirk is a wizard making plays to keep the puck in at the blue line on the PP, that and Buch's improved confidence and vision might keep it humming but it's still very stationary most nights and that worries me.

So, overall, yeah bad hockey team, let's tank.

 

[Ail]

The roster is fine it's bad when you bench two of the better defenseman for vastly inferior players and then give those guys too much ice time

Don't worry, AV is just making them "earn it." It's just a prank bro!

 

[True Blue]

but I think we can force and win track meets with most teams once everyone is playing at least average.

That may work against poorer teams, but over the last several years, it has not really worked against the better teams. Nor has it worked in the playoffs.

 

[haveandare]

That may work against poorer teams, but over the last several years, it has not really worked against the better teams. Nor has it worked in the playoffs.

Depends what you consider "working." NYR has more series wins than most teams over the last several years. If the definition of something that works is something that wins the cup and something that doesn't work is everything else, then yes it hasn't worked. But, Imo that's essentially the same strategy that PIT has been winning back to back cups with - their D is nothing to write home about, they just always find a way to tack on at least one more goal than the opponent.

IMO, they can keep this roster structure but they should get away from the man d. They get pinned in their zone, lose their men and the other team capitalizes. Happens way too often and has happened for years, it's not an issue of waiting until they get the hang of it anymore imo.

 

[Bricho]

Een with 5 goals Mika is still -3...ouch!

 

[Off Sides]

If they go to zone the transition likely suffers. Zone is simpler but it also requires the wings to cover the points deeper in their D zone rather than cheating up ice.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Een with 5 goals Mika is still -3...ouch!

He's been on the ice for both ENG against and 4 of his goals are on the PP.

Using context is helpful.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Depends what you consider "working." NYR has more series wins than most teams over the last several years. If the definition of something that works is something that wins the cup and something that doesn't work is everything else, then yes it hasn't worked. But, Imo that's essentially the same strategy that PIT has been winning back to back cups with - their D is nothing to write home about, they just always find a way to tack on at least one more goal than the opponent.

IMO, they can keep this roster structure but they should get away from the man d. They get pinned in their zone, lose their men and the other team capitalizes. Happens way too often and has happened for years, it's not an issue of waiting until they get the hang of it anymore imo.

PIT also has 2 generational talents and another one of the best goal-scorers in the league. If we had those kinds of players, AV's system would look like gold too.

 

[Cassano]

Roster with Kevin Hayes as a 2C is not fine. Carey and Desharnais aren't quality NHLers either. It's Zibanejad and crap at the most important position to build a team around.

 

[CasusBelli]

Newest whipping boy. I will say that the 4th line last night looked AHL level.

The team has flaws. AV's system has flaws. Neither the team nor AV are being bailed out by Henke.

Almost all systems have flaws. Whether they have been exploited -- or whether elite talent or superior work ethic conceals them -- is a different issue.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Delete this thread. These only work if you really mean it. Save it for when we are still in last place in late November.

 

[Machinehead]

Delete this thread. These only work if you really mean it. Save it for when we are still in last place in late November.

 

[haveandare]

PIT also has 2 generational talents and another one of the best goal-scorers in the league. If we had those kinds of players, AV's system would look like gold too.

PIT also has a lot of underwhelming depth players behind those 3. Every team is different. Overall, last year they led NYR by a healthy margin in GF, but the year before their lead was small, and the year before that they didn't lead NYR in GF if I remember fight. NYR's scoring would be more spread out, but they're capable of scoring as much as PIT as a team. What they need to work on, and what can be arguably attributed to the elite talents, is scoring at the right times when goals are needed to keep a game or series alive. That also could be partly a coaching and strategy issue imo.

 

[haveandare]

If they go to zone the transition likely suffers. Zone is simpler but it also requires the wings to cover the points deeper in their D zone rather than cheating up ice.

Either way, choosing is a trade off. With our overall team speed, I'd think we could spare the extra steps on the transition in order to play tighter in our own zone.