Therrien - New Season Edition

[Cole Caulifield]

Galchenyuk at center and Beaulieu playing regularly are things we could have been doing for the past 2 years but chose not to.

Galchenyuk wasn't ready last year as evidenced by his absolutely HORRIBLE end of season finish. He clearly wasn't at a physical level that would have allowed him to play an even more demanding position physically. And that's last year.. nevermind 2 years ago...

As for Beaulieu, he's also a young player who's developing. So far this season he's been alright, but I'm a little disappointed in him. He's had some tough games out there.

But the biggest lineup change that has helped possession is Pacioretty playing with Plekanec. Pacioretty is being fully utilized in a 2-way role which makes it easier for the other lines, when he was used in an exploitation role it made things harder for the other lines.

This started last year in the playoffs and it had a good effect, but I don't know if it is what has had the biggest effect. Also, having a 4th line that can go up against just about anyone helps enable that. You need 2 lines able to face strong opposition and keep the puck out of your zone. Right now, those lines are the #1 and #4 lines. The #2 and #3 lines are more offensive.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Yeah, I'll disagree. Pretty obvious that we've changed things up more than a little.

Feel free to debate this with other people though.

Well Therrien disagrees with you. He thinks the system is 95% the same :

«Je dirais que notre système est le même à 95%, a tenu à rappeler l'entraîneur montréalais hier midi. On joue différemment d'il y a trois ans, c'est sûr, mais sinon, c'est la même chose. Il ne faut pas oublier, on a ajouté quelques joueurs, nous avons plus de profondeur en défense et nos joueurs ont pris de la maturité. C'est un peu tout ça qui explique notre bon départ cette saison.»

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hocke...cyberpresse_B13b_canadien_427188_section_POS4

He's the one implementing the system so he would probably know better than just about anyone how similar/different it is ....

Knowing HF he's probably just lying though..

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well Therrien disagrees with you. He thinks the system is 95% the same :

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hocke...cyberpresse_B13b_canadien_427188_section_POS4

He's the one implementing the system so he would probably know better than just about anyone how similar/different it is ....

Knowing HF he's probably just lying though..

He can say whatever he wants.

In the words of Arpon Basu though... "Come on."

https://twitter.com/ArponBasu/status/656152826058551296?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

It's very clear we've changed the way we're playing.

 

[lo striver]

just listen to what priest MT is saying and don't believe your eyes. lol.

 

[Hoople]

he looked that way too when used at C for a few games last season, it was MT decision to remove him from the C spot. Using Patches with Plekanec from the get go helps. Not using the 3rd line as a pure shutdown line also helps.

You may think they are all minor tweaks (these + others) but at some point one has to think if there's so many tweaks MAYBE there's really a change in the system as a whole...

Dont we want a coach who will change and tweak?

Last season is done and finished. Nothing that is ever said about it can change the past.

Is this a good thing that Therrien has made some tweaks to this team? Or does that even matter based upon the past?

 

[FerrisRox]

Galchenyuk at center and Beaulieu playing regularly are things we could have been doing for the past 2 years but chose not to.

This is just silly.

Galchenyuk clearly wasn't ready physically or defensively to be playing centre two years ago. To suggest otherwise is crazy. I assume this board is full of people that watch the team regularly. I don't know how anyone who watched the team regularly could make this claim about Galchenyuk and Beaulieu.

 

[Hoople]

Why is it hard to admit the playing strategy has evolved?

It's equally as hard to admit that Therrien has changed and adapted to the roster (upgrades) he has at his disposal this season.

Internet forums tend to facilitate the need for the "AHA. I WAS RIGHT!!" syndrome.

In reality, I'm just glad to see the Habs start off well this season with a more talented lineup top to bottom than last season. And with more depth.

 

[groovejuice]

Well Therrien disagrees with you. He thinks the system is 95% the same :

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hocke...cyberpresse_B13b_canadien_427188_section_POS4

He's the one implementing the system so he would probably know better than just about anyone how similar/different it is ....

Knowing HF he's probably just lying though..

Apologize for Therrien all you like, but he's the only team member who eschews the "No Excuses" sign over the locker room door.

He's never, even once, to my knowledge ever accepted any responsibility for a failure. It's a personality fault with him.

For a poster who has used the "eye test" as evidence, I'd suggest you use it in this case. The strategies are noticeably and obviously different from the past. D zone exits with forward support, O zone entrances with D support, hits have resumed, less dump and hope to retrieve... It's like there's a new coach.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

"We’re being a little bit more patient with the puck and not always just giving it back" - Carey Price

 

[Hoople]

Apologize for Therrien all you like, but he's the only team member who eschews the "No Excuses" sign over the locker room door.

He's never, even once, to my knowledge ever accepted any responsibility for a failure. It's a personality fault with him.

For a poster who has used the "eye test" as evidence, I'd suggest you use it in this case. The strategies are noticeably and obviously different from the past. D zone exits with forward support, O zone entrances with D support, hits have resumed, less dump and hope to retrieve... It's like there's a new coach.

Should Therrien be fired then?

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. We are off to the best start ever and people are still dumping on Therrien for what happened in the past.

Help me out here.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Should Therrien be fired then?

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. We are off to the best start ever and people are still dumping on Therrien for what happened in the past.

Help me out here.

That's not what he suggested at all. He specifically said things have changed. That's what people are debating here.

 

[Hoople]

That's not what he suggested at all. He specifically said things have changed. That's what people are debating here.

Let me try this question then.....

What's the point?

Is it for "validation"?

No one can argue that our team is not more talented than last season. We finally have wingers which freed up Chucky to play C and have DD playing a role more suited to him. Add to that Petry is now Comfortable on this team, Emelin looks fully healed and a lot of dead weight is gone from this team.

There is a reason that a regular starter like De La Rose is in the A instead of on the Habs roster. Better talent. It's great when you have the option to move last years' regulars to depth.

 

[groovejuice]

Should Therrien be fired then?

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. We are off to the best start ever and people are still dumping on Therrien for what happened in the past.

Help me out here.

I'm replying to a poster who believes Therrien when he says the strategies are 95% the same as in the past. It's total bullocks.

I've been a vocal critic of Therrien in the past. I'm thrilled with how the team is playing, and Therrien deserves a great deal of credit. I don't exist to criticize, and am very happy to send kudos when they're deserved.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Let me try this question then.....

What's the point?

Is it for "validation"?

No one can argue that our team is not more talented than last season. We finally have wingers which freed up Chucky to play C and have DD playing a role more suited to him. Add to that Petry is now Comfortable on this team, Emelin looks fully healed and a lot of dead weight is gone from this team.

There is a reason that a regular starter like De La Rose is in the A instead of on the Habs roster. Better talent. It's great when you have the option to move last years' regulars to depth.

What's the point of what?

I think Therrien has done a great job. I love the changes he's made in both style of play and roster management. I didn't think he'd change but he has and he deserves full credit on this. Pretty much everyone has said this here.

Is our roster better? Sure. But that's besides the point. The coach deserves props for they systems and roster mgmt.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

He can say whatever he wants.

In the words of Arpon Basu though... "Come on."

https://twitter.com/ArponBasu/status/656152826058551296?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

It's very clear we've changed the way we're playing.

I hope you didn't think Basu's opinion lent credibility to your own. I personally only care about medias reporting quotes and facts because I have absolutely no trust in any of their opinions. They're not pros, they don't know any better than you or me. They're basically just fans who get paid to write about hockey. It doesn't require a pro level of understanding.

Basu specifically has quite a lot riding on this since he's been not so subtly hinting at Therrien being a bad coach for a while. I find that tweet absolutely hilarious. Him openly expressing his doubts about MT's comments in this fashion is not very professional and absolute candy to read. Just confirms what I thought of him really which is he is just one of those medias who relies on advanced statistics without context and jumps to conclusions. I assume it must greatly upset him professionally considering his history.

But it's not just Basu, a lot of medias and fans are buying in hook, line and sinker into shot based metrics because they're an easy and objective way to form an opinion. But good things rarely come easy. There's a reason why MB says we use advanced stats for players/teams we don't/can't watch.. but we don't use them for our own players. The use of advanced stats is to make up for lack of first hand experience, bias and bad judgement. But if you're minimally biased, have sound judgement and you have watched the teams/players... advanced stats can actually point you in the wrong direction.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I hope you didn't think Basu's opinion lent credibility to your own.

I didn't say it did. I simply agree with him and felt that he put things very well in that short sentence. Same with what Carey Price said btw.

Therrien can say whatever he wishes. I don't see the chip and chase. I don't see wingers standing stationary waiting on the boards anymore. I see players carrying the puck in more. I see better roster management...

So like I said, props to the coach for this. We're going to be a much better team this year as long as we don't revert to chip and chase.

 

[DAChampion]

Arpon Basu is a very good hockey writer.

 

[Lshap]

What's the point of what?

I think Therrien has done a great job. I love the changes he's made in both style of play and roster management. I didn't think he'd change but he has and he deserves full credit on this. Pretty much everyone has said this here.

Is our roster better? Sure. But that's besides the point. The coach deserves props for they systems and roster mgmt.

This pretty well covers it. The roster changes are clearly different and - most important - are working. The system changes are more subjective, but whether the difference in play is a result of organic chemistry within the new forward lines or actual strategic changes, once again, it's working.

Eller, Galchenyuk and Mitchell all look reborn. Is it because they're matched up with better, complementary linemates, or is it a different role they've been tasked to play? Who cares. Whether it stems from some shift in personnel or a new style of play, the players and team as a whole are playing great hockey.

 

[groovejuice]

I hope you didn't think Basu's opinion lent credibility to your own. I personally only care about medias reporting quotes and facts because I have absolutely no trust in any of their opinions. They're not pros, they don't know any better than you or me. They're basically just fans who get paid to write about hockey. It doesn't require a pro level of understanding.

Basu specifically has quite a lot riding on this since he's been not so subtly hinting at Therrien being a bad coach for a while. I find that tweet absolutely hilarious. Him openly expressing his doubts about MT's comments in this fashion is not very professional and absolute candy to read. Just confirms what I thought of him really which is he is just one of those medias who relies on advanced statistics without context and jumps to conclusions. I assume it must greatly upset him professionally considering his history.

But it's not just Basu, a lot of medias and fans are buying in hook, line and sinker into shot based metrics because they're an easy and objective way to form an opinion. But good things rarely come easy. There's a reason why MB says we use advanced stats for players/teams we don't/can't watch.. but we don't use them for our own players. The use of advanced stats is to make up for lack of first hand experience, bias and bad judgement. But if you're minimally biased, have sound judgement and you have watched the teams/players... advanced stats can actually point you in the wrong direction.

Or if you're inclined to believe everything a coach says, you have lost your own objectivity. There are posters who always support management, regardless of the evidence. There are posters who always criticize the management regardless of the evidence.

The vast majority of posters are open minded and will change their views based on the evidence.

 

[groovejuice]

Arpon Basu is a very good hockey writer.

Clearly, one of the best on the Habs beat.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I didn't say it did. I simply agree with him and felt that he put things very well in that short sentence. Same with what Carey Price said btw.

Therrien can say whatever he wishes. I don't see the chip and chase. I don't see wingers standing stationary waiting on the boards anymore. I see players carrying the puck in more. I see better roster management...

So like I said, props to the coach for this. We're going to be a much better team this year as long as we don't revert to chip and chase.

Dumping the puck in is not a system, it's a reaction to a particular situation. Players take what is given to them. If there's no space, they dump. If they're at the end of a shift, they dump. If the other team is set defensively and waiting for them at their blue line, they dump. If they feel like they aren't coming in with enough speed, they dump. It's playing the odds. If you have 10% chance of gaining the zone in possession by making a high risk move in the neutral zone.... you're just way better off dumping it.

You need to create winning conditions to gain the zone in possession of the puck. Therrien wasn't telling the players to dump the puck when they could gain the zone in control of the puck. He was telling them to do it instead of creating a neutral zone turnover.

Also, if you place the puck in the other team's zone in a smart way, with your speed you increase your odds of winning that puck battle. Besides, it's not entirely clear that gaining the zone with possession will create a positive scoring chance ratio over placing the puck in the other team's zone smartly.

Now you see players carrying the puck in more because we have a better more experienced blue line and because we have a lot of depth up front and we're in a better position to create those winning conditions. Sure there have been small tweaks to the system, but players play a much bigger part in all of this. These things build off of each others. It's not just one thing. That's Therrien's point here.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dumping the puck in is not a system, it's a reaction to a particular situation.

We played the chip and chase system for the past two years. Yeah man, it's a SYSTEM. We have him on video hammering it into his players.

You've complained that nobody has given this coach credit. People can't say enough about the job he's done this year. Enough already...

Just move on.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

We played the chip and chase system for the past two years. Yeah man, it's a SYSTEM. We have him on video hammering it into his players.

You've complained that nobody has given this coach credit. People can't say enough about the job he's done this year. Enough already...

Just move on.

So I'm not allowed to discuss things that displeases you ? You hammered the same nail for 2 years when it came to Therrien, did anybody tell you to move on ? But yeah, I will move on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So I'm not allowed to discuss things that displeases you ? You hammered the same nail for 2 years when it came to Therrien, did anybody tell you to move on ? But yeah, I will move on.

You are free to continue with this if you wish...

I'm done with you on this though.

 

[groovejuice]

So I'm not allowed to discuss things that displeases you ? You hammered the same nail for 2 years when it came to Therrien, did anybody tell you to move on ? But yeah, I will move on.

Keep flogging that dead horse.