Therrien - New Season Edition

[Mario le Magnifique]

added to the top 9 : project Semin and PTO Fleishmann.

Who said that ? I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth. Or stop quoting me.

Or believe that da system changed overnight, lol


The players all are 1 year older and are progressing, and there was key additions in Petry, Semin, Flash, to our depth. No more DD and Weise on the top line. No more Gilbert in the top 4. No more Gonchar in the top 4. LOL

Thinking that the Habs completely changed da system is dumb.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Who said that ? I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth. Or stop quoting me.

more depth, more tools, more talent...

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

more depth, more tools, more talent...

Okay,

What's the difference between Galchenyuk centering an offensive line and DD ? Talent, size.

What's the difference between putting Gallagher on our top line over Weise ? Talent.

What's the difference between having Weise in our bottom 6 instead of plugs like Tangradi, Bournival etc ? Depth.

What's the difference between putting Semin on our 2nd line instead of spreading the offense by putting Gallagher there ? Depth.

What's the difference between putting Eller on our 2nd line at LW instead of Galchenyuk ? Coach's key decision / vision, depth.

What's the difference between having Eller at center on our 3rd line over having DD centering our 3rd line ? Coach's key decision / vision, depth, also, DD is an offensive threat, might be a defensive liability though (big coaching decision there)

What's the difference between fatty DSP and game shape DSP ? Speed. Depth.

What's the difference between having cheap out of the bargain bin like Flynn and Mitchell taking lineup spots instead of having these guys from the get go (Flynn, Mitchell) ? Depth (huge 4th line)

What's the difference between Beaulieu this year vs last year ? Experience, coach's confidence. Depth (having Beau on our third pairing is crazy luxury).

What's the difference between having Gilbert on a second pairing or Petry ? Talent, speed, depth.

What's the difference between having Gilbert on our third pairing instead of bandaids like Gonchar, Weaver, Pateryn, Tinordi, Allen ? Experience, depth.



Of all my answers, what comes more often ? DEPTH. Habs don't have that much more raw talent, you're right, Semin and Flash ain't game changers that much.

It ain't talent, it's depth. Habs are deeper, our young players are progressing. For some deeper might = more talented but for me it's not really that, it's more, they have better players filling specific roles. DSP isn't there for his talent, nor are Weise, Flynn, Mitchell. They are there to fill defensive roles and our fourth line actually can play like most third lines on good NHL teams. They can shutdown top lines. They make it possible to ice an offensively minded third line and to put Eller on Galchenyuk's wing. If our 4rth line was bad you'd be seeing Eller back as 3rd line center and DD on the wing.

I could go on and on. But you can still believe that da system changed completely, while I do think some tweaks occured here and there, the system's baseline is still 'no risk at all costs'. Habs rarely committed turnovers in the last few games and when they did Price was there. Oh and they still dump and chase, just as is any other NHL team, as if dump ins are prohibited or something. Sometimes it's the play to make. Look at how Semin got benched for being soft on the puck in the neutral zone, making turnovers, 2 or 3 games ago. But but but, Semin is a possession player, how dare MT benches him with his new possession system. MT's system is basically playing the high % plays. The possession numbers are better because the team on the ice IS much deeper.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Who said that ? I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth. Or stop quoting me.

Or believe that da system changed overnight, lol


The players all are 1 year older and are progressing, and there was key additions in Petry, Semin, Flash, to our depth. No more DD and Weise on the top line. No more Gilbert in the top 4. No more Gonchar in the top 4. LOL

Thinking that the Habs completely changed da system is dumb.

Of course they didn't completely change the system. But they clearly changed it (source: the players, the coach, watching them play). They still dump the puck in, but its now to counteract teams trapping them up in the neutral zone/blue line instead of zone-entry of first resort. They've cut down on the stretch pass. They play more aggressively and they support each other more. Pretty much everything else is the same. But those were necessary changes and they look completely different with them.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Of course they didn't completely change the system. But they clearly changed it (source: the players, the coach, watching them play). They still dump the puck in, but its now to counteract teams trapping them up in the neutral zone/blue line instead of zone-entry of first resort. They've cut down on the stretch pass. They play more aggressively and they support each other more. Pretty much everything else is the same. But those were necessary changes and they look completely different with them.

What can small tweaks to a system do for you.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Okay,

What's the difference between Galchenyuk centering an offensive line and DD ? Talent, size.

What's the difference between putting Gallagher on our top line over Weise ? Talent.

What's the difference between having Weise in our bottom 6 instead of plugs like Tangradi, Bournival etc ? Depth.

What's the difference between putting Semin on our 2nd line instead of spreading the offense by putting Gallagher there ? Depth.

What's the difference between putting Eller on our 2nd line at LW instead of Galchenyuk ? Coach's key decision / vision, depth.

What's the difference between having Eller at center on our 3rd line over having DD centering our 3rd line ? Coach's key decision / vision, depth, also, DD is an offensive threat, might be a defensive liability though (big coaching decision there)

What's the difference between fatty DSP and game shape DSP ? Speed. Depth.

What's the difference between having cheap out of the bargain bin like Flynn and Mitchell taking lineup spots instead of having these guys from the get go (Flynn, Mitchell) ? Depth (huge 4th line)

What's the difference between Beaulieu this year vs last year ? Experience, coach's confidence. Depth (having Beau on our third pairing is crazy luxury).

What's the difference between having Gilbert on a second pairing or Petry ? Talent, speed, depth.

What's the difference between having Gilbert on our third pairing instead of bandaids like Gonchar, Weaver, Pateryn, Tinordi, Allen ? Experience, depth.



Of all my answers, what comes more often ? DEPTH. Habs doN,t have that much more raw talent, you're right, Semin and Flash ain't game changers that much.

It ain't talent, it's depth. Habs are deeper, our young players are progressing.

I could go on and on. But you can still believe that da system changed completely, while I do think some tweaks occured here and there, the system's baseline is still 'no risk at all costs'. Habs rarely committed turnovers in the last few games and when they did Price was there. Oh and they still dump and chase, just as is any other NHL team, as if dump ins are prohibited or something. Sometimes it's the play to make. Look at how Semin got benched for being soft on the puck in the neutral zone, making turnovers, 2 or 3 games ago. But but but, Semin is a possession player, how dare MT benches him with his new possession system. MT's system is basically playing the high % plays.

there you go, it wasnt all that hard.

And that's the reality, moving chairs around doesnt give you better chairs you know, and this is it, DD isnt a better player cause he's on the 3rd or Eller isnt a much better player either since being a LW. MT doesnt have much more tools this season, he just made the choice of using them differently.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

there you go, it wasnt all that hard.

And that's the reality, moving chairs around doesnt give you better chairs you know, and this is it, DD isnt a better player cause he's on the 3rd or Eller isnt a much better player either since being a LW. MT doesnt have much more tools this season, he just made the choice of using them differently.

Yes, but da system changed or not ? Was that your point or ?

I agree he changed how he uses certain players, much were changes some of you wanted a year ago, but da system ain't much different.

Player progression though is kicking in, that could be used in the 'more tools' to play with. Galchenyuk looks to be in our top 3 players this year, Gallagher is stronger on his skates, Beaulieu's bleeding confidence. I guess it's all a matter of how you can interpret words and their difinitions, but having Semin and Flash in the top 9 can definitely turn into 'two more tools to play with' literally. They are good players that we didn't have last year.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes, but da system changed or not ? Was that your point or ?

I agree he changed how he uses certain players, much were changes some of you wanted a year ago, but da system ain't much different.

Player progression though is kicking in, that could be used in the 'more tools' to play with. Galchenyuk looks to be in our top 3 players this year, Gallagher is stronger on his skates, Beaulieu's bleeding confidence. I guess it's all a matter of how you can interpret words, but having Semin and Flash in the top 9 can definitely turn into 'two more tools to play with' literally.

he looked that way too when used at C for a few games last season, it was MT decision to remove him from the C spot. Using Patches with Plekanec from the get go helps. Not using the 3rd line as a pure shutdown line also helps.

You may think they are all minor tweaks (these + others) but at some point one has to think if there's so many tweaks MAYBE there's really a change in the system as a whole...

 

[Captain Mountain]

What can small tweaks to a system do for you.

Depending on the tweaks and roster, a ton. Its generally dumb to over-rely on stretch passes and dumping the puck in as both are statistically less likely to result in maintaining (or regaining) possession relative to carrying the puck or short passing with puck support. Both have their time and place though. You need the puck to generate chances and having possession means the other team does not. The Habs were atrocious in this area, even as they had a number of strong possession players throughout their line-up. Sometimes changing emphasis is all that's needed. System adjustments, line changes and maturation have all factored into the Habs hopeful transition to a possession team. I don't know if it will last, but this isn't just the players, its coaching too.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

he looked that way too when used at C for a few games last season, it was MT decision to remove him from the C spot. Using Patches with Plekanec from the get go helps. Not using the 3rd line as a pure shutdown line also helps.

You may think they are all minor tweaks (these + others) but at some point one has to think if there's so many tweaks MAYBE there's really a change in the system as a whole...

Of course tweaking = changing, but like I said, it's all how you or I interpret those words. One or two tweaks ? Not much changed. Dozens of tweaks ? Things can look like they changed.

But as far as da system goes ? I don't believe the baselines changed.

In the end we pretty much agree, yes things have changed but MT is still MT. And we're still gonna go ape on him somehow somewhere during this season. I expect Eller to go back at 3rd line C and DD will inevitably end up with Pacioretty if Plekanec hits a rough patch. And then Galchneyuk on the wing cuz Davey is pretty unidimensionnal (things are what they are). I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Tourist]

Last year the bottom 4 on defense pre-Petry was essentially:
Emelin-Gilbert
Beaulieu-Gonchar

Now its
Emelin-Petry
Beaulieu-Gilbert

One could say we "only" swapped Gonchar for Petry. Well, I'd say going from a 40 year old dman who is now out of the league to a defenseman who's arguably a top pairing dman on half the teams in the league is significant. Then there's the trickle down effect where Gilbert now plays where he belongs.

On top of that, Beaulieu was also getting much better as the year progressed is now an improved player compared to last year.

Overall, the quality of those pairings has seriously improved. Subban and Markov are not relied on as much to save the day. All that has naturally helped the puck possession game.

At forward, for more than half the season the bottom 6 was
Prust-Eller-Sekac
Bourque/Thomas/Bournival/etc.-Malhotra-Weise

Out of all these guys I'd say only Eller and Sekac could make good plays with the puck. And Sekac was a rookie straight outta KHL.

Now, in our bottom 6 we have DD, Fleishmann, Mitchell and Flynn who can make plays or skate out our zone with control of the puck. Those are guys who have all played bigger roles on various teams in a not so distant past. That's much better. That's not even mentioning DSP who has also been significantly better/faster. Sure this is the bottom 6 were talking about, but these lines combined play around 25 minutes per game. That's significant icetime where instead of constantly chasing we're making good plays going forward. Not to mention the much improved momentum they leave our top lines with when they step out of the ice.

Finally the Galchenyuk that showed up to camp this year looks like a man compared to the one from last year. Stronger, better acceleration, more poise with the puck, better decision making, more assertive.

To me, the lineup is much improved compared to the already decent lineup we had to start last year. That's mostly why we're doing much better. I don't see major changes with the system without the puck, and with the puck I think we're better mostly because of what I've written above. Minor tweaks in our approach like the extra support the Dmen show when we attack and being generally more aggressive helps too, but it could be argued that it's easier to do these things more effectively when the lineup is just better.

Another underrated factor that helps improve our play is Pacioretty, our best forward, actually playing a two-way role 5on5 instead almost exclusively being used in offensive situations, like the poster Sorinth wrote.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Depending on the tweaks and roster, a ton. Its generally dumb to over-rely on stretch passes and dumping the puck in as both are statistically less likely to result in maintaining (or regaining) possession relative to carrying the puck or short passing with puck support. Both have their time and place though. You need the puck to generate chances and having possession means the other team does not. The Habs were atrocious in this area, even as they had a number of strong possession players throughout their line-up. Sometimes changing emphasis is all that's needed. System adjustments, line changes and maturation have all factored into the Habs hopeful transition to a possession team. I don't know if it will last, but this isn't just the players, its coaching too.

It's depth. When you have a player like Malhotra who handled the puck like a grenade, it's hard to maintain possession and it ends up affecting the team's total possession by a fair margin, considering Malhotra would be used between 10% and 15% of the time, and 75% of the time in the defensive zone (impossible to generate positive possession numbers with that deployment). On the other hand guys like DD and Pacioretty were generating a lot of positive possession metrics because they were used mostly in the Ozone and DD was good at draws, etc. Now this year we have Mitchell, Flynn and DSP taking Malhotra's assignments and they can still bring the play up ice and generate shots, that skews the team's possession metrics towards positiveness quite a bit.

So yeah, having depth will definitely skew possession metrics positively, not only coaching. In the end it's a combination of multiple factors and it's impossible for us to point out what exactly is going on unless we literally make a career in hockey analytics. It's not only looking at possession metrics, it's understanding them. For example, Eller's metrics from last few years might not look good, but his deployment was atrociously skewed against generating good possession metrics. In other words, not his f***ing fault. How about defensive defensemen then ? They get f***ed up the ass by possession metrics, because their deployment is atrociously skewed against generating good possession metrics. Not their fault either. These metrics make the average defensive player used in defensive situations look bad, while they're not and are still very valuable to a team. All of that to say, possession isn't the end of the world. Team last year relied too much on Carey Price that's true, but the depth was atrocious. This year the depth is grealty improved. I'm quick on critiscizing MB more than MT for this team's composure, but this summer he did a fine job.

Another example, if DD was used like MT used Eller last year, DD would have a hard time getting out of his zone and he would generate a lot of negative possession metrics, hence why he's still sheltered. On the other hand, Pacioretty might have slightly lower possession metrics this year than last year because he plays on a two-way line and has tougher assignments this year, with Plekanec, but he's still the same Pacioretty. But I guess if that line stops producing MT will be quick to use Pacioretty with DD on a sheltered line, because he's our best scorer and he NEEDS to produce. Possession ain't the end all be all, and player deployment is probably more important than possession.

Habs aren't more a 'possession' team this year than they were last year. They simply have better depth, which leads, with the right deployment (no DD in the D zone), to better possession metrics.

 

[DAChampion]

Why is it hard to admit the playing strategy has evolved?

 

[jaffy27]

Galchenyuk at center and Beaulieu playing regularly are things we could have been doing for the past 2 years but chose not to.

But the biggest lineup change that has helped possession is Pacioretty playing with Plekanec. Pacioretty is being fully utilized in a 2-way role which makes it easier for the other lines, when he was used in an exploitation role it made things harder for the other lines.

They could've done this the last 2 years??.....how do you know this? what information are you privy to that Bergevin isn't?? It was obvious from the get go that these 2 players were not ready for prime time...at least it was obvious to me and the habs brass.

I agree with your second statement...you could also add Petry as our #3 D at the start of the season and Galchenyuk as our #2 C among other players....

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Why is it hard to admit the playing strategy has evolved?

People throw posession this and possession that and they barely understand what it means.

Nope the strategy ain't really freaking different. Unless you'd care to elaborate on that we could have a discussion, but I strongly believe that not much has changed. Same ole MT.

P.S you can prove me wrong, I'd be actually happy to have hockey discussions on these forums for once.

 

[Kriss E]

So dismissing Hartley and Therrien's explanations / opinions with 'that's straight up nonsense' is a good way to argue ? Gonchar has no NHL contract this year (can't find one at least), and was benched when we got Petry, Weaver retired, Allen well you're right, but my point was, they all filled someone's shoes on the team this year. If Gonchar was so good he'd have an NHL contract this year. Last year he had trouble in the D zone, and was weak physically. In reality, Carey effin Price made that D look good, that's what everyone says here anyways, Gonchar included.

Okay, I'll take what real professionnals have to say over some folk on an interweb forums, thanks. Sure they still use a 'langue de bois' and there's always underlying things to what they say, but IMO, MT didn't change the baselines otherwise you'd see a lot of mess out there, y'know, guys learning a new system and all that. If MT and Hartley are saying that the system didn't really 'change' I kind of believe them. There have been tweaks for sure though. Every coaches evolves, so is every team. Habs are deeper than last year, coach has more tools to deal with.

I'm not dismissing them. You are dismissing the fact Therrien said he wants to play a more possessive and offense focus style this year. Why exactly would he say that if they kept the same system?..

I didn't say Gonchar was great, I said he and Beaulieu were, and Nathan even thanked him for all his help. Gonchar didn't play after suffering an injury. It had nothing to do with him sucking.


The coach had the same key tools to work with last year, and he had a good set of tools the previous year too. He also had a good set in 12-13 and played a more aggressive style. So let's stop pretending like Therrien was given a bunch of grinders and scrappers, which forced him to play a grinding style. Enough of this nonsense. We had more than enough talent to play a more offensive style.
Saying otherwise is really just a cop out.

 

[ECWHSWI]

People throw posession this and possession that and they barely understand what it means.

Nope the strategy ain't really freaking different. Unless you'd care to elaborate on that we could have a discussion, but I strongly believe that not much has changed. Same ole MT.

P.S you can prove me wrong, I'd be actually happy to have hockey discussions on these forums for once.

at this level (in any field) you don't need to do all that much to change playing style. Just moving players around, when you move enough players, is enough to change the way players think on the ice.

We all know if Eller was still a 3rd line C he'd be stuck playing defense most of the time and his first reaction would still be to dump the puck a lot - meaning we don't have 3 lines to generate offense - it also means DD would be playing much more and taking lots of ozone-starts from other C - just like Eller (good defensively, can take FO, solid along the board) helps the Galchenyuk line a lot (even if he doesnt end up with lots of points) - and by having Eller with him, Galchenyuk have more space to manoeuver as the former can cover for him and that being C gives him more space on the ice.

again, at this level, it doesnt require much, and it doesnt require lots of explanations to the players. Galchenyuk knows Eller can cover for him if need be, just by peing put with Plekanec both Patches and Gallagher know they have to (try to) play a two way game. Eller know he can now try things in the offensive zone just by looking with who he's playing with, etc.

You can argue Mitchell is better than Malhotra or Flynn is better than Bournival for example, but since MB arrival, the bottom 6 has never been a problem, most did a'right (based on the role given : like you said, Malhotra was pretty much only taking d-zone FO for example).



and yeah. agreed. same old MT, we'll see if it's for real when we are in a rough patch.

 

[DAChampion]

Having Desharnais on the third line playing 13 minutes is an extremely large change, never mind the rest.

DD is now playing against lesser players, against whom he is much more effective. It might also make better use of his stamina -- I'm not sure.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

People throw posession this and possession that and they barely understand what it means.

Nope the strategy ain't really freaking different. Unless you'd care to elaborate on that we could have a discussion, but I strongly believe that not much has changed. Same ole MT.

P.S you can prove me wrong, I'd be actually happy to have hockey discussions on these forums for once.

1. Most people have an understanding of what the term 'possession'means from an advanced stats sense.

2. The system's pretty freakin' different. This isn't a little tweak. The Habs have even said they've moved towards a system that doesn't rely on the chip and chase and now have blueliners joining the attack. Our wingers used to be stationary on the boards waiting for the pass and then would chip it into the other zone. This was impractical on several levels.

First it was ineffective as we gave the puck away.

Secondly, it burned our guys out skating after a puck they'd already had possession of.

Third, it didn't take advantage of our mobile defense.

Fourth, our forwards were stationary with no momentum taking them the other way.

It was a bad system and it's been a bad system whenever he's used it. A stacked Pittsburgh team failed at it. The Habs failed at it MT's first time around. And after a really good season in 2013 with a young roster - with us NOT using dump and chase, we returned to it in 2014 and saw our numbers plummet for two straight years. Now we've dumped the dump and chase (even the Habs have said this) and we're now seeing success.

3. I'm not sure what you need as "proof." The Habs have said its a different system. Our shots for are up our shots for are down and our advanced stats look great.

What the heck more do you need to see?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Why is it hard to admit the playing strategy has evolved?

Why must the strategy have changed ?

From the horse's mouth :

«Je dirais que notre système est le même à 95%, a tenu à rappeler l'entraîneur montréalais hier midi. On joue différemment d'il y a trois ans, c'est sûr, mais sinon, c'est la même chose. Il ne faut pas oublier, on a ajouté quelques joueurs, nous avons plus de profondeur en défense et nos joueurs ont pris de la maturité. C'est un peu tout ça qui explique notre bon départ cette saison.»

-Michel Therrien
http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hocke...cyberpresse_B13b_canadien_427188_section_POS4

My take, it's not a small change in system that gives this much results. Coaches don't have that much of an effect. It's the depth of the 4th line, Galchenyuk taking a step forward and being ready for C duties, Eller moving to wing (he's not a very good center), and of course Petry+Flash.

 

[Andy]

1. Most people have an understanding of what the term 'possession'means from an advanced stats sense.

2. The system's pretty freakin' different. This isn't a little tweak. The Habs have even said they've moved towards a system that doesn't rely on the chip and chase and now have blueliners joining the attack. Our wingers used to be stationary on the boards waiting for the pass and then would chip it into the other zone. This was impractical on several levels.

First it was ineffective as we gave the puck away.

Secondly, it burned our guys out skating after a puck they'd already had possession of.

Third, it didn't take advantage of our mobile defense.

Fourth, our forwards were stationary with no momentum taking them the other way.

It was a bad system and it's been a bad system whenever he's used it. A stacked Pittsburgh team failed at it. The Habs failed at it MT's first time around. And after a really good season in 2013 with a young roster - with us NOT using dump and chase, we returned to it in 2014 and saw our numbers plummet for two straight years. Now we've dumped the dump and chase (even the Habs have said this) and we're now seeing success.

3. I'm not sure what you need as "proof." The Habs have said its a different system. Our shots for are up our shots for are down and our advanced stats look great.

What the heck more do you need to see?

Well said LG. Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Captain Mountain]

It's depth. When you have a player like Malhotra who handled the puck like a grenade, it's hard to maintain possession and it ends up affecting the team's total possession by a fair margin, considering Malhotra would be used between 10% and 15% of the time, and 75% of the time in the defensive zone (impossible to generate positive possession numbers with that deployment). On the other hand guys like DD and Pacioretty were generating a lot of positive possession metrics because they were used mostly in the Ozone and DD was good at draws, etc. Now this year we have Mitchell, Flynn and DSP taking Malhotra's assignments and they can still bring the play up ice and generate shots, that skews the team's possession metrics towards positiveness quite a bit.

So yeah, having depth will definitely skew possession metrics positively, not only coaching. In the end it's a combination of multiple factors and it's impossible for us to point out what exactly is going on unless we literally make a career in hockey analytics. It's not only looking at possession metrics, it's understanding them. For example, Eller's metrics from last few years might not look good, but his deployment was atrociously skewed against generating good possession metrics. In other words, not his f***ing fault. How about defensive defensemen then ? They get f***ed up the ass by possession metrics, because their deployment is atrociously skewed against generating good possession metrics. Not their fault either. These metrics make the average defensive player used in defensive situations look bad, while they're not and are still very valuable to a team. All of that to say, possession isn't the end of the world. Team last year relied too much on Carey Price that's true, but the depth was atrocious. This year the depth is grealty improved. I'm quick on critiscizing MB more than MT for this team's composure, but this summer he did a fine job.

Another example, if DD was used like MT used Eller last year, DD would have a hard time getting out of his zone and he would generate a lot of negative possession metrics, hence why he's still sheltered. On the other hand, Pacioretty might have slightly lower possession metrics this year than last year because he plays on a two-way line and has tougher assignments this year, with Plekanec, but he's still the same Pacioretty. But I guess if that line stops producing MT will be quick to use Pacioretty with DD on a sheltered line, because he's our best scorer and he NEEDS to produce. Possession ain't the end all be all, and player deployment is probably more important than possession.

Habs aren't more a 'possession' team this year than they were last year. They simply have better depth, which leads, with the right deployment (no DD in the D zone), to better possession metrics.

Please. Petry went from being a lousy possession guy in the regular season last year to a beast this year. Eller, Plekanec, Beaulieu, Mitchell, Flynn too. There are obviously other considerations there, but this is not just depth + lines change. This isn't even a numbers thing. Eye test shows that this team is carrying the puck more than they did last year. Again, this doesn't mean that there is a massive shift in strategy, but a shift in transition priorities and when and how D are activated. It all plays a role.

Most of Montreal's possession has been generated by the top-6. The 4th line plays the same role as last year (and then some) and is getting similarly crushed in possession. Its more of an even distribution of improved possession for everyone, not new players coming in.

 

[BLONG7]

Having Desharnais on the third line playing 13 minutes is an extremely large change, never mind the rest.

DD is now playing against lesser players, against whom he is much more effective. It might also make better use of his stamina -- I'm not sure.

We all wanted this last year, we finally have it, so let's enjoy it!!

MT's use of DD was a joke, and finally now, it makes more sense...Chucky at centre has been huge for the results...

The TOI is the single most important thing the coach does, once the puck drops...ask Scotty Bowman. Who is on the ice, and when and for how long is all on the coach. It has taken MT the past 3 years to get where we are now...letg's hope he never goes back to being his old self...

 

[Cole Caulifield]

1. Most people have an understanding of what the term 'possession'means from an advanced stats sense.

2. The system's pretty freakin' different. This isn't a little tweak. The Habs have even said they've moved towards a system that doesn't rely on the chip and chase and now have blueliners joining the attack. Our wingers used to be stationary on the boards waiting for the pass and then would chip it into the other zone. This was impractical on several levels.

I understand the implication of the system not being "pretty freakin' different" for you since you've been championing Therrien and his system being so bad for 2 years now, but in reality, the system hasn't changed that much. There have been some minor tweaks but gaining the zone in possession of the puck is a matter of roster talent in Therrien's system.

When you have the puck, if you are at the end of your shift, it's silly to try to gain the zone in possession of the puck because you're tired and can't make anything happen in the offensive zone. So you dump and change.

When the other team is set in their zone and they have 3-4 guys waiting for you in D and neutral zone.. you dump because there's no space. Sometimes the other team simply doesn't give you any space at all. What's the point of forcing things and just turning the puck over in the neutral zone ? It's way better to create a puck battle farther away from your net. So you dump.

The more player talent you have, especially on the blue line, the more you'll spend time in the O-zone, the less you have to dump, the easier it is to gain the zone because guys with speed, stickhandling and smarts know how to gain the zone in possession of the puck. But if your roster is full of Prusts, Malhotra, etc... forget it. And the guys have to be responsible defensively and experienced to know when is the right time to dump, and when is the right time to try and gain the zone in possession of the puck.

It's all a very fine balancing act, and Therrien didn't become a genius over night. And it's not Ramsay with his limited time around the team who has changed everything.

You can look back to the last playoffs and see that we had already started playing better once the new guys had settled in. The strategy was in place a long time ago, all it needed was depth up front and the addition of Petry. Which goes to show that coaches don't have that much of an impact in reality. It's the players who have 90% of the impact. And this is why the anti MT crusade of the last 2 years was pretty silly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I understand the implication of the system not being "pretty freakin' different" for you since you've been championing Therrien and his system being so bad for 2 years now, but in reality, the system hasn't changed that much.

Yeah, I'll disagree. Pretty obvious that we've changed things up more than a little.

Feel free to debate this with other people though.