Blue Jays Discussion: The Vladimir Guerrero Jr. injury overreaction thread

[BlueForever75]

Realistically if the Estrada and Happ keep up what they are doing lately, they should bring in some decent prospects via trade. I am very curious to see how the Jays play over the next month and what they can get for these starters. Getting Pearce back may increase his value as a piece in a trade as well. And then there is Granderson. With these four players if they can either keep up what they are doing or get better in the next month, we should be able to pick up some pieces for the future.

 

[zeke]

ach. that's no good. I thought Vicuna was plus there which is why I've been keeping tabs on him despite a borderline slash line.

great to see that number for Smith, though. we may have a star in the making here.

 

[BlueForever75]

Wonder if the Yankees would be willing to trade us Clint Frazier and a young prospect pitcher for Happ and Granderson.

 

[Discoverer]

Wonder if the Yankees would be willing to trade us Clint Frazier and a young prospect pitcher for Happ and Granderson.

There's no reason whatsoever for the Yankees to have any kind of interest in Granderson.

 

[phillipmike]

So 2023 is the Jays’ window to win the division?

ETA : there is talk of realignment as well as adding the DH to the NL. Maybe they’ll get moved to a central division away from those east coast teams.

I think the Yankees will be in a playoff spot for 3-5 years - doesnt mean i think they will be the division winner for 5 years in a row. Wildcard is likely but even the Dodgers have shown us this year that a team locked for 100 wins can experiences injuries and rough patches - nothing is for granted in any sport except for the NBA.

I cant see the Yankees and Red Sox not being in the same division. And i have a hard time seeing the Jays not being there with them from a geographical standpoint. A balanced schedule, less regular season games and more playoff teams would do the MLB and the game wonders.

Many think the reason why the game is declining in numbers is because of the pace and they are looking at it from a micro scale. They need to look bigger, you have 162 games were fans lose interest and only 5 playoff teams so some cities have to 10+ years and even longer to see the playoffs. If teams made the playoffs more often (8 teams in per League) then you will see a greater interest. Fans care about playoffs not bullpen carts, pitch clocks, and mound visits.

 

[phillipmike]

Of course a different situation (but right as a philosophy) but i think Dorian just shows why you take the best deal possible vs trying not to help a rival. Dorian got the worse deal and still has to face Hoffman in his division. You always take the best offer possible.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Wells, Lloyd and Bush were the best offer possible.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think the Yankees will be in a playoff spot for 3-5 years - doesnt mean i think they will be the division winner for 5 years in a row. Wildcard is likely but even the Dodgers have shown us this year that a team locked for 100 wins can experiences injuries and rough patches - nothing is for granted in any sport except for the NBA.

I cant see the Yankees and Red Sox not being in the same division. And i have a hard time seeing the Jays not being there with them from a geographical standpoint. A balanced schedule, less regular season games and more playoff teams would do the MLB and the game wonders.

Many think the reason why the game is declining in numbers is because of the pace and they are looking at it from a micro scale. They need to look bigger, you have 162 games were fans lose interest and only 5 playoff teams so some cities have to 10+ years and even longer to see the playoffs. If teams made the playoffs more often (8 teams in per League) then you will see a greater interest. Fans care about playoffs not bullpen carts, pitch clocks, and mound visits.

If the Jays, like most teams, want to consistently be in a playoff race they’ll need help from MLB.

I’ve said it for years that I would cut back the schedule and put more teams in the playoffs. Mainly because the interest in the sport is so regional.

I’m not sure how teams would budget their payrolls but if you had 200 mill payroll and were knocked out a few times in the early rounds it might make you reconsider.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Of course a different situation (but right as a philosophy) but i think Dorian just shows why you take the best deal possible vs trying not to help a rival. Dorian got the worse deal and still has to face Hoffman in his division. You always take the best offer possible.

Especially if it is a FA and you are not in it. Who cares if you make them better... It's not like not you are going to make it regardless if you are willing to move the guy. If anything it'll help you lose more games to get a higher pick, and the fans who show up to the games once you are out of it could care less about who goes where. They just care about watching the team and would probably care about getting the best package for the future as possible.

Added bonus when you take away the future of other teams as well.

 

[phillipmike]

If the Jays, like most teams, want to consistently be in a playoff race they’ll need help from MLB.

I’ve said it for years that I would cut back the schedule and put more teams in the playoffs. Mainly because the interest in the sport is so regional.

I’m not sure how teams would budget their payrolls but if you had 200 mill payroll and were knocked out a few times in the early rounds it might make you reconsider.

I dont necessarily agree with the bold part but i completely agree with the rest.

 

[ChurchOfAlfie]

Of course a different situation (but right as a philosophy) but i think Dorian just shows why you take the best deal possible vs trying not to help a rival. Dorian got the worse deal and still has to face Hoffman in his division. You always take the best offer possible.

The Hoffman trade doesn't really apply to the whole "don't help a rival" debate. Dorion didn't trade Hoffman to the Sharks to avoid trading him to a division rival. Ottawa and Florida talked, but Ottawa wanted roster players while Florida only wanted to give up picks. They just weren't good trading partners, it had nothing to do with intra-division rivalries.

 

[phillipmike]

The Hoffman trade doesn't really apply to the whole "don't help a rival" debate. Dorion didn't trade Hoffman to the Sharks to avoid trading him to a division rival. Ottawa and Florida talked, but Ottawa wanted roster players while Florida only wanted to give up picks. They just weren't good trading partners, it had nothing to do with intra-division rivalries.

Perhaps if that is how you want to read it but i think its Dorian doing damage control. In what world does a bottom 3 team want roster players back when they are trading a better roster player with the draft in 3 days?

I think its more of an excuse/damage control because the return for Hoffman was brutal considering what he could have got from Florida.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Perhaps if that is how you want to read it but i think its Dorian doing damage control. In what world does a bottom 3 team want roster players back when they are trading a better roster player with the draft in 3 days?

I think its more of an excuse/damage control because the return for Hoffman was brutal considering what he could have got from Florida.

The world where they have to give up a high pick in next year's draft if they don't... Plus where they might lose Karlsson as well. They need to do everything they can to win next year, or else risk giving up a pick that could get a generational type player plus not having any reason for their current generational player to stay.

They need roster players for sure, but Boedker is not exactly the type of guy they should be going for. They would have been better off going for picks and then having the extra cap space to sign someone + the extra picks to use in a trade to get someone. Boedker is a 3rd liner, and nothing more than a decent one at that.

I think Dorian was trying to be clever and move Hoffman away from the division (as far as possible), but it came back to bite him hard.

 

[phillipmike]

The world where they have to give up a high pick in next year's draft if they don't... Plus where they might lose Karlsson as well. They need to do everything they can to win next year, or else risk giving up a pick that could get a generational type player plus not having any reason for their current generational player to stay.

They need roster players for sure, but Boedker is not exactly the type of guy they should be going for. They would have been better off going for picks and then having the extra cap space to sign someone + the extra picks to use in a trade to get someone. Boedker is a 3rd liner, and nothing more than a decent one at that.

I think Dorian was trying to be clever and move Hoffman away from the division (as far as possible), but it came back to bite him hard.

Exactly. Boedker doesnt make your team better or give you better odds of giving the Avs a worse pick. Neither does Bergman in fact it probably hurts your chances at adding players (FAs probably dont see Ottawa as great destination with what has been going on and you have 4 million less cap space to sign players). Rather have 3 picks and use them for trades where you know you can "force" those players to play for you. And the fact Ottawa is even in the position (having to contend so they dont give up a great pick to the Avs) is Dorian's fault - Its a flawed plan as we seen with the Kessel trade. You need to rebuild, just rebuild.

 

[canucksfan]

Blue Jays’ prospect Guerrero is a big kid getting bigger, which is probably not a good thing

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The Sun.....the Toronto Sun...

I'm not clicking on it, but I have to assume that there's a photoshopped (or stretched width-wise) picture of Vlad Jr. looking fat somewhere in the article.

 

[dangomon]

Do we know who is starting for Bluefield today? Really hoping its Pardinho.

 

[canucksfan]

Do we know who is starting for Bluefield today? Really hoping its Pardinho.

It's someone else

This guy Alvaro Galindo

 

[canucksfan]

The Sun.....the Toronto Sun...

I'm not clicking on it, but I have to assume that there's a photoshopped (or stretched width-wise) picture of Vlad Jr. looking fat somewhere in the article.

I don't follow newspapers a lot. However, his weight gain could be a potential problem. Not really worried because the Jays will keep it in check.

 

[canucksfan]

Still surprised he isn't in the GCL. I guess he's kind of blocked though?

 

[phillipmike]

The Score's mock trade;

To NYY: LHP J.A. Happ
To TOR: RHP Chance Adams, OF Everson Pereira, RHP Juan De Paula

Knowing every win will count in the race for the AL East with the Red Sox, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman pulls the trigger on a deal that brings left-hander J.A. Happ over from the Blue Jays. The Yankees have an immediate need in the rotation with southpaw Jordan Montgomery out following Tommy John and Masahiro Tanaka sidelined with strained hamstrings. Happ's addition gives the Yankees another lefty in the rotation alongside CC Sabathia, which could be beneficial come playoff time should they meet the Red Sox - a team that's struggled against southpaws this season. Happ has had success in the AL East and is a rental, meaning the Yankees don't have to commit to 2019 when some of their young pitchers might be ready to take the next step. For the Blue Jays, they get a bit of an additional boost in the return by selling early while Happ's stock is high, and the thought of trading within the division is easier to swallow with the chance of re-signing the lefty in the offseason. Toronto lands the Yankees' No. 4 ranked prospect in Adams, No. 21 in Pereira, and No. 28 in De Paula in a similar package to what the Rangers received for Yu Darvish last season.

If its the best deal i make this trade no problem. An MLB ready back end starter with #3 upside and 1 toolsy OF and a high upside pitcher.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Still surprised he isn't in the GCL. I guess he's kind of blocked though?

They'll probably make room soon. Jays have been cutting guys, and will likely continue to cut a few more. I do not know why Dunedin is keeping Nash Knight around for example, especially when they have guys in Lansing ready to get a shot, and there are younger guys with more upside than him in Dunedin who should be getting more playing time.

Kind of interesting to see them put former first baseman Emilio Guerrero and outfielder Josh Almonte as pitchers though. Both are quite old and did not have futures as position players, so I guess they are going to see what they can do as pitchers. If they suck, they'll be gone quite fast though. But even Ramirez was 23 when he switched over, and he went up the ladder quite fast after that (A+ ball in his second year).

 

[Longshot]

I think the Yankees will be in a playoff spot for 3-5 years - doesnt mean i think they will be the division winner for 5 years in a row. Wildcard is likely but even the Dodgers have shown us this year that a team locked for 100 wins can experiences injuries and rough patches - nothing is for granted in any sport except for the NBA.

I cant see the Yankees and Red Sox not being in the same division. And i have a hard time seeing the Jays not being there with them from a geographical standpoint. A balanced schedule, less regular season games and more playoff teams would do the MLB and the game wonders.

Many think the reason why the game is declining in numbers is because of the pace and they are looking at it from a micro scale. They need to look bigger, you have 162 games were fans lose interest and only 5 playoff teams so some cities have to 10+ years and even longer to see the playoffs. If teams made the playoffs more often (8 teams in per League) then you will see a greater interest. Fans care about playoffs not bullpen carts, pitch clocks, and mound visits.

I have argued for a long time that baseball needs to expand its playoffs. In the NBA and NHL - 16 teams get in, roughly half the league. In the NFL, it's 12. In MLB it's 10.

Baseball is so slow to change, I doubt the sport would ever consider a 1 vs. 8 format (or divisions like the NHL). But I have argued they should double the number of wild card teams to four per league. One day you have two AL wild card games, the next day you have two NL wild card games and on the third day the two final wild card games to determine the two teams to advance to series. Such a format would give the division winners an advantage in setting up their rotations for the playoff series.

They could easily accommodate the extended playoffs by starting the season a few days earlier. There are more than enough dome/warm weather teams to make the earlier start easier.

I agree with you that the people running the sport are splitting hairs when they talk about pace of play and mound visits. As if games shorter by a minute or two are suddenly going cause an influx of interest.

 

[hoc123]

Interesting news regarding Tepera. Not sure how likely it is he's traded, especially since there is no mention the Jays are even interested in trading him, but if he is traded it could signal the Jays are just seeing 2019 as a retooling year, and could look to trade Smoak, Pillar and Martin.

 

[phillipmike]

I have argued for a long time that baseball needs to expand its playoffs. In the NBA and NHL - 16 teams get in, roughly half the league. In the NFL, it's 12. In MLB it's 10.

Baseball is so slow to change, I doubt the sport would ever consider a 1 vs. 8 format (or divisions like the NHL). But I have argued they should double the number of wild card teams to four per league. One day you have two AL wild card games, the next day you have two NL wild card games and on the third day the two final wild card games to determine the two teams to advance to series. Such a format would give the division winners an advantage in setting up their rotations for the playoff series.

They could easily accommodate the extended playoffs by starting the season a few days earlier. There are more than enough dome/warm weather teams to make the earlier start easier.

I agree with you that the people running the sport are splitting hairs when they talk about pace of play and mound visits. As if games shorter by a minute or two are suddenly going cause an influx of interest.

Couldn't have said it better myself.